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  1. #1
    Mechagnome nightguard's Avatar
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    Arenas from a noobs pov.

    Ok so this past month after getting bored with raiding SoO flex I started to notice there were a few guildes who were more pvp focused, and since I want to be a GM that cares about what the guildes like I decided to pull out my very shirty pvp set and do a bgs with them.

    The bgs were as normal nothing but slams and rushes,basically what is expected nowadays sadly in a none rbg group. But as the day went ppk went off to do their own thing so when it was only three of us left we decided to try doing 3v3, from a burst sperpective.

    Rogue
    Warrior
    Warlock.

    Pretty sure it isn't a ideal team but hey it was mainly for fun, I didn't really care much for e wins as I did to just bond with some of the members. So after doing like 112 games and wining with a good rations of 2 wins with 1 lost I started to get into it and pay attention and try a learn few tricks.

    And this is when I notice a few annoying things, I'm sure is already known but meh.

    1. Spell casters have way to many CCs, I came to this conclusion when we fought against a Mage lock and healing priest setup. With the rogue group stealthing us we just nuked the healer, but apparently as a warrior I am a top priority so the rest of the game , not joking about this for 2-3mins I am either feared,frozen,turned into a monkey, feared again ,and chained. And yes this was with using rage to get free and my trinket, we won the match because they focused strictly on me and during the few seconds I had I used a defensive cd and second wind plus a lock cookie is pretty good.

    2. Revivals I honestly didn't even know this shit was possible it was the 97th game we played after a 3 win streak. We were up against a blood DK,elemental shaman, and ret paladin. The paladin from what we assumed was a carry since the other two were pushing 490k and him barely over 300k, also his hits with burst didn't hurt. The game was a good fight we managed to get the shaman and DK down but not before me and the lock died. The ret was out of bubbles and instant heals so we thought it was in the bag. Our rogue was beat up and as a safety pro caution we told him to heal up some so he stealths and gets health up, but that's when we notice redemption the paladin revive is being used. Now I know you can argu well he was out of combat and it's a fair move but really,nth is is to big of a game changer, it might be rare but a revive should not be possible no matter what.

    3.add burst. I won't sit here and say burst as a whole is bad, it's not its a pay attention thing and know your class. But shamans hunters and unholy dks have one burst that is pretty much annoying. And that's when basically an entire army of mobs is spawned, normally this would be issue unless coupled with a cc like priest and lock fear or ice traps from hunter and mages or just about anything. Even with CDs the adds still seem to not apply to players that summon them so their damage is completely unavoidable.

    These are my top issues with arenas and pvp as a whole. Now a minor thing from my class pov.

    Can we make taunts a bit More useful in pvp, I'm not sure how a rogue/hunters misdirect works but someone in vent mentioned it makes players target change to whoever it's used with. This is what I was thinking for taunts. Whe. Used the players targeting is moved to said players for a few seconds before it can be moved back. It would help a bit more for Melee if they want to help protect allies in pvp.

    Outside of that there are already known things that need to be nerfed...like a frostlance and yes I'll admit that as arms a warrior can do a lot of damage, but also out of most classes when it comes to pvp, least amount of stuns or break frees....so yeah there's that trade off.

  2. #2
    you are a war and complain about other classes cc?
    l2play ur class - roflmao

  3. #3
    I agree, cc in general is out of control, for every class. Revives are fine, you should've kept him in combat. I like the idea for taunts. I always thought tanky classes could have more viability in helping mitigate damage for arena/bg fun. Like, you put your tank "gaze" on a friendly player and you take 30% of his incoming damage. Or taunt could work as a debuff, so unless they target you, they do 20% less damage or something.

    WoD expansion boss, Medivh! Calling it now!

  4. #4
    Mechagnome nightguard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    you are a war and complain about other classes cc?
    l2play ur class - roflmao
    I already said that I wasn't great at pvp, if the title didn't give you that idea from the get go clearly you just wanted to bash the thread. And you must not know what cc is to know why I mentioned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krez View Post
    I agree, cc in general is out of control, for every class. Revives are fine, you should've kept him in combat. I like the idea for taunts. I always thought tanky classes could have more viability in helping mitigate damage for arena/bg fun. Like, you put your tank "gaze" on a friendly player and you take 30% of his incoming damage. Or taunt could work as a debuff, so unless they target you, they do 20% less damage or something.
    I figured the revive thing was just a thing we WERNT expecting, no other team seemed aware of it even with the same straight so guess we just had the smart pally :/.

    As for the tanking part interven kinda works like that but a taunt is more to just force your team mate from being ganked, and without the use of fear or something.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    you are a war and complain about other classes cc?
    l2play ur class - roflmao
    Why don't you add to the discussion instead of being a sheep and following the bandwagon of L0LOMGWARRINVICNBLEEE, LOLOLL2P M8 L2P, some people, you know how stupid you look?

    CC certainly isn't in the best place for sure in Arena currently, there just isn't enough DR when there is so much chain CC, especially when so many classes have pretty much the same general toolkit with slight differences and names, not so much uniqueness to classes any more overall, well, not as much as the in the past anyway.

    Arena needs a lot of work, it's exploited so much, this is why I like Trial of the Gladiator, pure skill, get rid of trading, people actually earning gladiator the way it should be earnt, right now, I can pay someone $2000 to get Gladiator, or pay around $400 to be boosted from 0 - 2000, I know that's slightly offtopic, but theres much to be fixed in the way of PvP.

    Really with so much CC the only way some people counter it is to attempt massive burst single target and get someone down within 1-3 seconds.

    Some team combos have crazy utility atm.

  6. #6
    Taunt have no place in arena imo, im a player not a npc, and also its a very bad idea to add more stuff into an allready huge sea of cc and cooldowns, be they defensive or offensive.

  7. #7
    Trying to look at it objectively i can agree with a lot of the issues you raise from a noobs (not using it as a insult) point of view. I can only suggest putting more time into learning how to counter long CC chains and such. Also the current meta is based around having a healer/2dps, outside of some niche comps like double healer unholy dk if thats still viable. Having a healer means a dispel when it comes to the majority of CC. Currently for warriors there is alot of nurf calling you said there is a trade off with low mobility and high damage, but having a healer essentially removes the low mobility crutch. For instance, paladin-freedom,Monk-Tiger's lust, Priest bubble sprint+feathers,Druid-symbiosis roar/druids roar, shamans-windwalk totem.

    Also regarding taunt, back in cata, when i played me enh shammy i would have a 3rd weapon with rockbiter on it and switch to it and unleash elements(essentially a taunt) a pet when i saw a CC coming on me. There is a niche for taunt if that trick still works.

    Sorry if what i wrote seems a bit awkward~ been up for quite awile.

  8. #8
    Hey there not to be rude or anything but everything you are saying is either wrong or slightly incorrect and let me explain why.

    1. It is not only spellcasters who have too much cc because for a war like yourself you have charge, fear, shockwave, storm bolt etc. Rogues have gouge, blind, sap, para poison, kidney, cheap shot, garrote but they are rogues so yeah... but you get what I mean. There needs to be a slight reduction of cc in general or making some cc have a cast time. Also the comp you vsed mage,lock,priest has a shit load of cc, probably more than most comps and them all being casters makes it a lot harder for a melee class to deal with although for warriors its easier than others due to their mobility. Spell reflect is really crucial here as if you're getting chain ccd through eg. first a fear into a polly you can enrage out of fear or trinket or w.e during the last few seconds and spell reflect and make them eat a massive sheep. You also need to use your trinkets at the correct time like listed above if you become in that situation. Popping a trinket at a wrong time can lose you the game esp for classes like rogue who only have 1 way to get out of stuns.

    2. Revival is really no big deal tbh as it has a 10 second cast time and is interrupted by attacks. If you let the enemy get off a revive in a 1v1 then you deserve to lose.

    3. There is a good amount of burst right now but burst also has to revolve around correct use of cc and is mostly planned not just done right off the bat. You wait till major defensive cds or trinkets are down then you start the burst. Also dk's cant use army of the dead in arena (10 min cd abilities aren't allowed in arena). The thing with burst right now is that you need to pop your defensive at the right time (receiving end) or start your burst after they have been popped while also having cc on their healer which was probably where you went wrong (People bursting). Bursting correctly is something you really need to learn to get good in arena and it requires a lot of teamwork and good communication. Another good example of burst mitigation as a 1v1 example would be rogue pops shadow dance and blades and a dk pops ibf or cc's him, no stuns + 20% dmg red (only if the rogue didn't garrote). Also stampede and the elementals are only that big a deal because you aren't running a healer or popping defensives correctly. Pop a shield wall during stampede or your aoe root shout if you have it (not sure if the root thing works but i dont see why not).

    4. Warriors don't need a taunt buff or something like that, they have plenty atm and giving them more would be stupid and if you want to be a supporting melee be a pally.

    5. Frostlance already got hit by the nerf bat during mop, go back to cata and it was criting for like 100k+ it is fine as it is imo.

    6. Arms warrior has the most stuns of all classes and also the most versatile if I'm not mistaken. Shockwave aoe stun in a cone, storm bolt ranged stun on 30 second cd, your charge stun. You also have enrage which can break saps, fear and incaps, bladefury if you spec it to break roots and slows while also becoming magic immune and also mass spell reflect + spell reflect to avoid cc to begin with. Comparing this to some other classes it is actually pretty decent eg rogue only has vanish + cloak which breaks roots and magic slows only and cannot break any cc's like stuns, fears, incaps etc without trinket or racials. Warriors are really good right now in all aspects and tbh don't really have any trade offs for anything which is why I see them getting a nerf in WoD.

    Just FYI I play rogue & dk so I'm pretty experienced with their abilites and arena situations. If I offended you in any way or anything it was unintentional, I am just trying to give you some information which I believe to be correct (if you can be bothered to read this).
    Last edited by meatfresh; 2013-12-15 at 03:54 PM.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Should've used spell reflect more often vs polymorphs. Also tell your healer to stop being bad and dispell you. Warriors are currently a mage hardcounter, so you really shouldn't have any problem.

  10. #10
    Warchief Anzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    you are a war and complain about other classes cc?
    l2play ur class - roflmao
    I'd edit that to something at least somewhat constructive, especially as the OP said he was a noob PvP'er in the thread title.

    I can't say I'd recommend running 3v3 without a healer if you want to get any sort of rating with it (especially with a random comp like the one you are running). Since you are, you can expect to sit in CC and nova's a lot (giving you the impression mages, etc are stronger than they really are not denying they aren't strong)

    The rest of your post I don't generally agree with, resurrections are completely preventable, especially in 3v3. You mention about adding burst (please no!) then mention about lots of adds spawning which is unpreventable. Stampede isn't actually the cause of the burst you experience from hunters, but it's the most visually noticeable (and generally acts as a mask for the hunters actual cooldowns). About your problem with casters, as a warrior you are able to sit on casters rotating pummel, disrupting shout, spell reflect, mass spell reflect, whichever stun you took and charges completely nullifying their damage, it's not right, but it works.

    EDIT: Sorry for the blunt answers, just really, really bad experiences with warriors this season (to the point they are ruining arena for me.)
    Last edited by Anzen; 2013-12-16 at 10:32 AM.

  11. #11
    thanks for your pov... but what you (new at pvp, 3s without healer etc. etc. ) think does not matter at all.

  12. #12
    High Overlord WhereAmI's Avatar
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    1. Yeah, the amount of CC in PvP is getting pretty annoying, but it's necessary with how bursty everything is. If you don't hit the healer with a decent CC chain, the healer can burst heals much harder than 1-2 DPS can deal damage on a target. It's too easy for an unchecked healer to almost instantaneously bring someone from 20-25% to full health.

    2. I lol'd. There's nothing wrong with revives in arena because they have a 10 second cast time and are so easily interrupted. Not to mention you only seen ONE successful revive after 97 games. IMO it's one of those "That's what you get!" kind of things for letting it go off.

    3. Eh, Hunter pets can deal quite a bit of damage if left alone and I used to think Stampede was ridiculously strong (and it was when MoP first released :P ), but after checking my meters I noticed that it might deal 30-45k total damage. Unholy DK pets do some strong damage but are managable, and the only Shaman pet worth mentioning is the Fire Elemental since spirit wolves are complete garbage now. I think my biggest problem with pets is just the visual clutter if I have enemy health bars turned on, but otherwise I'm fine with 'em.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral ShadowForge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    you are a war and complain about other classes cc?
    l2play ur class - roflmao
    not sure if your trolling but warriors dnt have hardly any cc compared with other classes

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Peruh View Post
    thanks for your pov... but what you (new at pvp, 3s without healer etc. etc. ) think does not matter at all.
    Someone has an inflated opinion of themselves to think that someone elses' opinion does not matter.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    Someone has an inflated opinion of themselves to think that someone elses' opinion does not matter.

    It's not really an inflated opinion of one's self to point out that the OP has little to no experience in arenas and thus is unqualified to very accurately discuss the problems with pvp. Peruh is right, if your going to enter 3's with no healer, not knowing how to avoid cc or prevent revives then perhaps that person might not be the best person to listen to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    If you bathe your motherboard in the blood of 20 chickens during the first full moon after the equinox, the WoW gods will shower you with many loots.

  16. #16
    OP was playing triple dps as a warrior at probably 1300 rating...his post really does not have much balancing value at all.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mican17 View Post
    OP was playing triple dps as a warrior at probably 1300 rating...his post really does not have much balancing value at all.
    Did you miss the "noob PoV" in the title?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by draconith1 View Post
    It's not really an inflated opinion of one's self to point out that the OP has little to no experience in arenas and thus is unqualified to very accurately discuss the problems with pvp. Peruh is right, if your going to enter 3's with no healer, not knowing how to avoid cc or prevent revives then perhaps that person might not be the best person to listen to.
    Did you miss the "noob PoV" in the title?

    To say someone elses opinion does not matter is to put yourself completely above them as they are irrelevant to you. To recognize his opinion for what it is, lack of the required knowledge, and to not take it to heart is a whole different thing.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    Did you miss the "noob PoV" in the title?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Did you miss the "noob PoV" in the title?

    To say someone elses opinion does not matter is to put yourself completely above them as they are irrelevant to you. To recognize his opinion for what it is, lack of the required knowledge, and to not take it to heart is a whole different thing.
    No, actually I read the title, and every post in the thread. Just because he states that this is from his perspective as a noob doesn't make his points anymore relevant. He had one good point about cc and the rest was crap. I mean ffs he's going around talking about adding MORE burst potential into the game as if it wasn't already bursty enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    If you bathe your motherboard in the blood of 20 chickens during the first full moon after the equinox, the WoW gods will shower you with many loots.

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Avada Kedavra's Avatar
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    Warriors do not have too many CC's - Hamstring and all related spells should be removed or should share the same DR as other CC's - 100%uptime permaCC slow is stupid.

    The problem is warriors have WAY too many gap closers. I can use any/all of my abilities and skills to drop them, but they do not gtfo - they right behind me. The recent intervene nerf was a joke, more needed plox.

    Their damage is fine - its not more or less than others, but because they are able to maintain a 100% uptime on their targets that is the issue.
    “What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?” - Stephen Hawking

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by draconith1 View Post
    No, actually I read the title, and every post in the thread. Just because he states that this is from his perspective as a noob doesn't make his points anymore relevant. He had one good point about cc and the rest was crap. I mean ffs he's going around talking about adding MORE burst potential into the game as if it wasn't already bursty enough.
    I'm curious by which charts/graphs/measurements/scale you use to dismiss him as irrelevant. Who are you to decide which of his points were good or not? If i agreed with him on adding more burst would i become irrelevant at that point because you don't like my opinion?

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