View Poll Results: Ghostcrawler fired?

Voters
1517. You may not vote on this poll
  • 100% he was fired

    101 6.66%
  • Very strong chance he was fired

    127 8.37%
  • 50/50

    117 7.71%
  • Very strong chance he left on his own

    371 24.46%
  • 100% he left on his own

    801 52.80%
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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Araron View Post
    Honestly I still find it strange he left.
    He literally just jumped out of Blizzard,out of blue with no previous hint (at all) about something like this.And he probably didn't make that decision in 3 days and then just decided to go to Facebook and say "Hey,guys!I'm leaving!".Blizzard is one of the most profitable gaming companies,even though I wouldn't be surprised if he was just bored with everything.Still,he might have been fired.Not saying he was,but he might have been.For some reason.
    Decisions like this are made way in advance. He was probably given an offer months ago and things take time to put into motion and finalize. Ghostcrawler wouldn't have been one of the leaders of the Blizzcon discussions, both on and off stage, if he were on such bad terms with Blizzard. The guy has paid his dues but there's simply no room for career advancement at his position unless Tom Chilton stepped down; his immediate boss. Someone probably gave him an offer to move up the ladder with another company and he took it and given his comments about "likely not being hard to find" and "staying in the industry" suggests that as well.

    Blizzard is a company with a lot of career advancement opportunity if starting at the bottom but he was at a point where no amount of years at the company would let him go any higher unless some of their "lifers" died or left the company which were both unlikely to happen anytime soon. He could stay at Blizzard and do the same job or he could take a senior development position at someone like Riot Games.

    I find it depressing how many people truly think it was Ghostcrawler who ruined the game. He gets blame for
    -PvP: Hollinka's team and before him, Chilton had a specific team who did the bulk of the legwork here even as the lead game designer
    -Dungeons and raids: This used to be J. Allen Brack's team up up until the reins were handed to Ion Hazzikostas and they settled on a rigid team.
    -Lore/Quest: This was a joint effort between Metzen to write it, Dave Kosak to implement it, and Cory Stockton to polish it.
    -"Fluff" content: Things like pet battles and the new garrisons are a Cory Stockton area
    -World design: This is Alex Afrasiabi's area. The no flying debacle is on him as well.

    The main things Ghostcrawler did were dungeon finder/LFR, transmogrification, badge/point loot, itemization, and class balance. Of course classes became more homogenized over time but it was largely 10H raiding that forced them to do so to ensure that all classes could be brought. Class balance in particular is better than it's ever been.

    Ghostcrawler was simply another name on the team under Chilton with his own specific area no different than the others I mentioned above. But because Ghostcrawler was the one to come to the forums and was willing to discuss issues and explain changes made by the WoW team as a whole, he got a lot of hate directed at him and a lot of people overestimating his power on the team. If people are unhappy, they should be directing their anger at Tom Chilton as the game's director and lead game designer; the manager of the entire WoW team. Or even a step farther, Rob Pardo who's the VP of game design over all Blizzard games. But it's easier to blame Ghostcrawler as he's the most easily accessible member of the team through his active Twitter feed.

    Blaming people for unhappiness is fine but people at least need to blame the right people.
    FC: 3067-6604-6289. Steel Safari - Skarmory - Klefki - Ferrorseed

  2. #202
    GC was not responsible for the spike in subscriptions. Non MMO-gamers looking for a sequel to The Frozen Throne were, and they weren't bound to stick around for long.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxx View Post
    He was fired for sure.
    None with his right mind leaves such rich company by himself. Especially with his position at Blizzard.
    This is simply not the case. People leave rich companies all the time, if they think they can do better elsewhere.

    Amorise: how dare you introduce sense and reason into this thread!
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Of course he was, You can't run off 60% of the casual player base with a system far too complicated for the average player without some type of ramifications.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes it is low it's 60% lower than it was before him.
    can you do maths? a max of what, 13 million? and now 7.something... that's not even 50% lower.

    and he got another job, so i'm gonna say no, he just left, because i don't wear a tinfoil hat

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose19 View Post
    1000% he was fired. Cmon this dude ruined the game.
    NO NO NO NO.....Kalgan ruined the game. Get it right already. Get that terrorist out of the gaming industry.

  6. #206
    He was there for a significant rise and a significant fall in subscribers. If they felt he was to blame, they wouldn't have waited this long, they'd have replaced him in Cata when the downward trend began.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    well the sub numbers have been getting incredibly low under his reign
    It was not his "reign" or anything of the sort.
    He was not the only person responsible for those decisions, just the one who gave enough of a damn to try and communicate with us.
    And look what that got him, a load of abuse from arrogant and stupid players.

    He started the ball rolling in terms of how blizzard communicate future plans, something we saw next to nothing of prior to that.

    Just a load of nonsense spewed from players upset that their personal demands or expectations were not met, and so choose to blame the most public face amongst the developers rather than taking a look closer to home.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  8. #208
    Of course he wasn't fired, because of GC this game is actually playable, he did as good as possibly with the tools he had. Rember it's chilton who is the main guy and is one of the people who says yes and no, I think he has to go as well because without GC, Chiltons logic will become more visible and you will be able to buy epics for 10$ from the store.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Amorise View Post
    Decisions like this are made way in advance. He was probably given an offer months ago and things take time to put into motion and finalize. Ghostcrawler wouldn't have been one of the leaders of the Blizzcon discussions, both on and off stage, if he were on such bad terms with Blizzard. The guy has paid his dues but there's simply no room for career advancement at his position unless Tom Chilton stepped down; his immediate boss. Someone probably gave him an offer to move up the ladder with another company and he took it and given his comments about "likely not being hard to find" and "staying in the industry" suggests that as well.

    Blizzard is a company with a lot of career advancement opportunity if starting at the bottom but he was at a point where no amount of years at the company would let him go any higher unless some of their "lifers" died or left the company which were both unlikely to happen anytime soon. He could stay at Blizzard and do the same job or he could take a senior development position at someone like Riot Games.

    I find it depressing how many people truly think it was Ghostcrawler who ruined the game. He gets blame for
    -PvP: Hollinka's team and before him, Chilton had a specific team who did the bulk of the legwork here even as the lead game designer
    -Dungeons and raids: This used to be J. Allen Brack's team up up until the reins were handed to Ion Hazzikostas and they settled on a rigid team.
    -Lore/Quest: This was a joint effort between Metzen to write it, Dave Kosak to implement it, and Cory Stockton to polish it.
    -"Fluff" content: Things like pet battles and the new garrisons are a Cory Stockton area
    -World design: This is Alex Afrasiabi's area. The no flying debacle is on him as well.

    The main things Ghostcrawler did were dungeon finder/LFR, transmogrification, badge/point loot, itemization, and class balance. Of course classes became more homogenized over time but it was largely 10H raiding that forced them to do so to ensure that all classes could be brought. Class balance in particular is better than it's ever been.

    Ghostcrawler was simply another name on the team under Chilton with his own specific area no different than the others I mentioned above. But because Ghostcrawler was the one to come to the forums and was willing to discuss issues and explain changes made by the WoW team as a whole, he got a lot of hate directed at him and a lot of people overestimating his power on the team. If people are unhappy, they should be directing their anger at Tom Chilton as the game's director and lead game designer; the manager of the entire WoW team. Or even a step farther, Rob Pardo who's the VP of game design over all Blizzard games. But it's easier to blame Ghostcrawler as he's the most easily accessible member of the team through his active Twitter feed.

    Blaming people for unhappiness is fine but people at least need to blame the right people.
    QFT!

    Nothing more to add. Case closed.

  10. #210
    Herald of the Titans RoKPaNda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statix View Post
    World of Warcraft will be long dead by the time Ghostcrawler releases his new game. I kinda feel sorry for the guy/gal that will replace him at Blizzard.
    Only if he works for Blizzard as it takes them a decade to make a sequel. Even then I doubt a decade from now WoW will be completely dead. It will have very few players, but I doubt it will be "long dead." Just look at EQ.

  11. #211
    Is there a bigger challenge than wow out there? or Titan even? GC could have joined the titan team as well if he was looking for a new challenge after 6 years of wow, right?

  12. #212
    He simply got another job offer, nothing more to it! Happy though.

  13. #213
    He most likely just got a job opportunity he wanted to take. I bet he has received many. 6 years in the same company is actually relatively long.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikael123 View Post
    He most likely just got a job opportunity he wanted to take. I bet he has received many. 6 years in the same company is actually relatively long.
    I am now 13 years with the same company.... how is 6 years too long?

  15. #215
    As far as i know, a big company would not leave a head figure to go away just before they are about to launch a big product (d3 expansion, wow expansion) and im inclined to say he quit for something better.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaqwert View Post
    Do you think that perhaps GC was fired or forced to 'resign'?
    He left because of a new career opportunity that he said he simply couldn't resist. This happens ALL the time in the game industry: top people have left Bioware, Bungie, Sony, Microsoft, and countless others - even Miyamoto-san of Nintendo has said that he is effectly demoting himself to advisor because he wants to work on smaller, simpler games and ideas. So we've probably seen the last 'huge 3d' Nintendo game directed by him.

    Tinfoil hat types might want to believe that GC was forced out because of subs dropping, but those are generally the idiots who think that he alone makes changes to the games - and therefore have no idea what the hell they're talking about.

    Lower subs or not, at over 7 million subs WoW still stomps the absolute hell out of every other MMO - Conan, Rift, Tera and even the mighty Star Wars: TOR developed by Bioware (who is a legendary game dev company). That game was basically groomed to 'take out' WoW (EA said bluntly that their goal with the game was knocking WoW out of the #1 MMO position) and it failed spectacularly in its goal. Every time these games are announced you guys are like OMG WOW KILLER INCOMING and unsurprisingly, you're dead wrong.

    Bottom line is this: whether you like GC or not, no matter how laughably clueless you are about what his job was or how it actually worked (coughteamcough), no other subscription MMO has come within a thousand miles of WoW's success and relevance, and its unlikely that another ever will.

    GC had a hand in that success he was one moving part of many. If you seriously think he sat around all day just making the game the way he wants it, for the classes he plays, I am embarrassed for your parents.
    Last edited by Mirishka; 2013-11-29 at 04:53 PM.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    nope, he rode the success and drove the subs lower.
    http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...rs-by-quarter/

    Oh yea im sorry that Greg was hired in '08 and got wow to the highest number of subs during wrath on '10

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Synstir View Post
    Is there a bigger challenge than wow out there? or Titan even? GC could have joined the titan team as well if he was looking for a new challenge after 6 years of wow, right?
    Ghostcrawler could have gotten a dream job as a higher up dev on a new Age of Empires, the game franchise he credits for getting him into gaming. He could gotten a senior position at Riot Games who has been on a massive hiring spree to expand their LoL team and to hire for future games and has seen an incredible rise to the top of gaming in a short time.

    All we know is that he isn't leaving the industry, he's leaving Blizzard so that rules out Titan, "likely won't be that hard to find," and likely won't be on an upcoming MMO team given an almost guaranteed no compete clause for X years on his contract given how much he knows about the tentative WoW development plan a couple years in advance.

    If he stays in the gaming industry, which he said he was, he's more likely to go to a MOBA or to an RTS. Two other areas of his interests without being a massive change from WoW (going fantasy RPG to a shooter for example) and would be areas he would contractually be able to work for. As much as I would love to see his name attached to something like WildStar and it be successful, doubt we'll see Greg on an MMO project for a while, if ever again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synstir View Post
    I am now 13 years with the same company.... how is 6 years too long?
    In game development, the turnover rate is pretty high. People bounce to other more lucrative positions as they appear or will take off for other projects to expand the types of games they have under their belt which is better for their longterm careers. Greg did WoW for 6 years and could bounce to say something like Riot Games (League of Legends) and put 4 into MOBAs as well and could translate the 10 year combined experience with two successful companies and games into an even bigger position down the pipeline. You'll see many of the popular game studios trade people around on a regular basis because of that.
    Last edited by Bullettime; 2013-11-29 at 04:53 PM.
    FC: 3067-6604-6289. Steel Safari - Skarmory - Klefki - Ferrorseed

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Synstir View Post
    I am now 13 years with the same company.... how is 6 years too long?
    He didn't say too long? He said it was long, as in a long time, which it is. A long time =/= too long.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    He left because of a new career opportunity that he said he simply couldn't resist.

    Tinfoil hat types might want to believe that he was forced out because of subs dropping, but those are generally the idiots who think that GC alone makes changes to the games and therefore have no idea what the hell they're talking about.

    Lower subs or not, at over 7 million subs WoW still stomps the absolute hell out of every other MMO - Conan, Rift, Tera and even the mighty Star Wars: TOR developed by Bioware (who is a legendary game dev company). That game was basically groomed to 'take out' WoW (EA said bluntly that their goal with the game was knocking WoW out of the #1 MMO position) and it failed spectacularly in its goal.

    Bottom line is this: whether you like GC or not, no matter how laughably clueless you are about what his job was or how it actually worked (coughteamcough), no other subscription MMO has come within a thousand miles of WoW's success and relevance, and its unlikely that another ever will.

    GC had a hand in that success he was one moving part of many. If you seriously think he sat around all day just making the game the way he wants it, for the classes he plays, I am embarrassed for your parents.
    I am managing 3 teams in my irl job and in the end I am responsible for the direction the teams are moving in and also the results the team is booking.
    That is part of my role as manager. I one of my teams get lower financial results in a year, I will be talked to as I am held responsible.
    i will get a goal like, meeting expactations or even exeeding them the next year. If I don't make those, I will have to explain and believe me, nobody will listen to my "it is a team effort, i didn't do it alone". I will be blamed. If I don't succeed with reasonable reasons, I won't get a third chance, for that profit is too important.

    While I do believe GC is not the only person to decide things on wow and we can't blame him as a person, I also believe that in the role of Lead systems designer, he can be held repsonsible.

    I am not saying he failed at his job... as I don't know him nor follow him on tweeter and such. About the man himself, I have no opinion.

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