Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #21
    When we first time did dark shammies 10 man normal we had three tanks and three healers. Still had dps for it ^^

  2. #22
    My advice: Keep in mind that the wall is placed through your shoulders. Strafing to a wall will place it at a 90 degree angle to that wall - you have to be facing directly away from or into the wall for it to be placed along it.

  3. #23
    the whole reason to 3 tank dark shamans is to SPREAD THE HEROIC MECHANICS around as much as possible, so that the whole raid doesnt have to deal with iron prisons etc., there is absolutely no point in 3 tanking it on normal as the mechanics arent any where as close to punishing as the hc version, 3 tanking it on normal just make the fight longer and there is no reason to do that but with that said, it is a valid strat even for normal, its just not worth it imo.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2013-11-29 at 12:11 PM.

  4. #24
    Thanks for the answers,

    We are only a casual guild on a quiet server, we sometimes scrape to get the 10th man to join so we cant be picky with our roster. Some of our members seem to have a tough time 'moving out of the fire' and our progress on this boss vastly improved once we started using 3 tanks, normal mode or not.

  5. #25
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,011
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    the whole reason to 3 tank dark shamans is to SPREAD THE HEROIC MECHANICS around as much as possible, so that the whole raid doesnt have to deal with iron prisons etc., there is absolutely no point in 3 tanking it on normal as the mechanics arent any where as close to punishing as the hc version, 3 tanking it on normal just make the fight longer and there is no reason to do that but with that said, it is a valid strat even for normal, its just not worth it imo.
    It makes it significantly easier, people split it on normal ptr fo christ sake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyToast View Post
    We burn down dogs and take to 75%, then move haromm inside and kardris to the aisle.
    I thought the strat was to keep them together until 65% when they get an extra ability.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #27
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I thought the strat was to keep them together until 65% when they get an extra ability.
    There's no reason to cause the abilities you are trying to simplify go off, they do basically no damage first 40% so just split em as soon as dogs are dead really
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    There's no reason to cause the abilities you are trying to simplify go off, they do basically no damage first 40% so just split em as soon as dogs are dead really
    Not exactly at 65%, just before. You get more raid dps keeping them together for the extra 9% (75-66).
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  9. #29
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida
    Posts
    4,979
    IMO 3-tanking it on Normal makes the fight a joke, and you have a lot less moving around than you do with 2 tanking; we've three-tanked it from the start and have done so every week thus far. Speaking as Tank #3 for the fight, what is the issue inside? What we do is line him up so the current tank has his back to one of the walls of Grommash Hold; when Ash Wall comes the tank runs straight forward as soon as the cast is done, and takes him to the other wall (tank swap usually occurs), and repeat so you have two walls on either side. For the third wall, the current tank moves so his back is on the throne, so Ash Wall #3 is placed there, and at that time Wall #1 goes away so you go back to that corner.

    My recommendation is to save major CDs for when they use Bloodlust, as they Haromm hits pretty hard then. Other than the occasional line of slime targeting a tank or a stray slime wandering in, there's nothing going on with Haromm other than his attacks.
    NOBLESHIELD
    <Meliora> of Turalyon-US
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Mod Voice


  10. #30
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Not exactly at 65%, just before. You get more raid dps keeping them together for the extra 9% (75-66).
    Your healers wont be losing mana and you wont be facing enrage, shaving a couple seconds at the risk of more mechanics (honestly its the walls you avoid but the point stands)

    Shaving a couple seconds isnt worth it unless you're racing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  11. #31
    if you want less rng, bring 5 players to each side, so the people with the ticking debuff wont get targeted by the foulstream totem. He will always prefer a target who doesnt have the Toxic mist debuff, if he can.

  12. #32
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Amphion View Post
    if you want less rng, bring 5 players to each side, so the people with the ticking debuff wont get targeted by the foulstream totem. He will always prefer a target who doesnt have the Toxic mist debuff, if he can.
    you only need 1 dps in there for that

    2 tanks, healer + dps will get ticking debuff every tme, the non-tanking tank will get foul stream everytime
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Amphion View Post
    if you want less rng, bring 5 players to each side, so the people with the ticking debuff wont get targeted by the foulstream totem. He will always prefer a target who doesnt have the Toxic mist debuff, if he can.
    There is no RNG on normal mode, as it really cannot one shot you. If you want to 3 tank it go ahead, but it's like setting up healing cooldown rotations for normal Morchok. Sure it's the best way to kill it, but it doesn't make much difference, because it is a miniscule difference in difficulty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadde111 View Post
    Whats up with all these bashing downs syndrom kids? If they want to 3 tank NM shamans, let them. As someone mentioned, tanking the dude one of them up the hill as most people do on HC makes the fight much much easier.
    You are even worse and should be infracted for that.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    The fight is easy enough with the bosses together and goes a lot faster when you can cleave the bosses.
    OH WOW REALLY? IT goes faster when you cleave them down?! As you can see he havnt killed it yet, he isnt trying to do a speed kill here he is just trying to kill the boss.

    So I ask you this. What goes fastest. A slow Kill that involves no wipes, or a fast kill that involes several wipes? I think the answer is pretty obvious, which the Method vs. Midwinther race at blizzcon clearly showed (and no it doesn't make a difference whether they did it on HC or not, the fact remains the same).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    the whole reason to 3 tank dark shamans is to SPREAD THE HEROIC MECHANICS around as much as possible, so that the whole raid doesnt have to deal with iron prisons etc., there is absolutely no point in 3 tanking it on normal as the mechanics arent any where as close to punishing as the hc version, 3 tanking it on normal just make the fight longer and there is no reason to do that but with that said, it is a valid strat even for normal, its just not worth it imo.
    Again it might not be worth if for you, but OP clearly say they struggle with it, so by telling him to do a harder strategy than they alrdy are doing, doesnt making it ANY faster.

    I do fint it funny all these heroic raiders in here having to point out how its "faster" and how they don't "understand" why anyone can struggle on normal mode. Your not helping them. Whether it's heroic tactic or not, splitting the bosses up, also make the boss a lot eassier on normal mode. And as OP states, they are a casual guild, which you guys should have figured out since they are only at Dark shamans by now, so it isn't really much needed for you to tell them how much eassier and faster the other tactic is, when it clearly isn't.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    the whole reason to 3 tank dark shamans is to SPREAD THE HEROIC MECHANICS around as much as possible, so that the whole raid doesnt have to deal with iron prisons etc., there is absolutely no point in 3 tanking it on normal as the mechanics arent any where as close to punishing as the hc version, 3 tanking it on normal just make the fight longer and there is no reason to do that but with that said, it is a valid strat even for normal, its just not worth it imo.
    That's not the point at all, but thanks for trying.

    The point of spreading them out is mainly because of Toxic Mist and Foul Stream. Toxic Mist makes the tornadoes and whirlwinds extremely deadly (since Toxic Mist puts a stacking nature damage increase on the target). Foul Stream is considerably more difficult to deal with when it can target 8 potential players that are a mix of stacked and spread instead of 3-4 that are already stacked on the boss.

    Iron Prison is a pathetically easy mechanic to handle no matter where it is in the raid. Iron Tomb is pretty much just as easy. Toxic Mist + the other nature damage abilities is deadly. That's why people use the 3-tank strategy.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Gearshifter View Post
    OH WOW REALLY? IT goes faster when you cleave them down?! As you can see he havnt killed it yet, he isnt trying to do a speed kill here he is just trying to kill the boss.

    So I ask you this. What goes fastest. A slow Kill that involves no wipes, or a fast kill that involes several wipes? I think the answer is pretty obvious, which the Method vs. Midwinther race at blizzcon clearly showed (and no it doesn't make a difference whether they did it on HC or not, the fact remains the same).

    - - - Updated - - -



    Again it might not be worth if for you, but OP clearly say they struggle with it, so by telling him to do a harder strategy than they alrdy are doing, doesnt making it ANY faster.

    I do fint it funny all these heroic raiders in here having to point out how its "faster" and how they don't "understand" why anyone can struggle on normal mode. Your not helping them. Whether it's heroic tactic or not, splitting the bosses up, also make the boss a lot eassier on normal mode. And as OP states, they are a casual guild, which you guys should have figured out since they are only at Dark shamans by now, so it isn't really much needed for you to tell them how much eassier and faster the other tactic is, when it clearly isn't.
    nice generalization there, clearly dark shamans normal and dark shamans heroic is the exact same fight right? there was a reason that midwinter wiped and that was bcoz they didnt handle the HEROIC MECHANICS properly and the normal mechanics shouldnt really be a problem for anyone as they are fairly easy to deal with.

    if it gets too hectic inside, the OP could just kite haromn around the area outside, should give you a lot more room and make it a lot less hectic, it might be a bit harder to deal with the slimes depending on your setup, if you have a destro lock, the slimes should easily be dealt with, just make sure you dont go too close to the gate where you enter the area or between the ah and the inn as the slimes might get caught and it will force a reset, in fact if you're kiting haromn around outside make sure the slimes spawn as far away from the outside walls.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    That's not the point at all, but thanks for trying.


    Iron Prison is a pathetically easy mechanic to handle no matter where it is in the raid. Iron Tomb is pretty much just as easy.
    those are heroic mechanics tho, doesnt exist on normal, but thanks for trying.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2013-11-29 at 08:48 PM.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Minnesnowta
    Posts
    3,373
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Yeah this. If you have made it to dark shamans, you'll have at the very, very least the same gear that people had when killing it week 1. Two tank and you'll be just fine.
    There's no reason to do it with 2 tanks when the most common heroic strategy is 3 tanks. Why learn it differently now.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    nice generalization there, clearly dark shamans normal and dark shamans heroic is the exact same fight right? there was a reason that midwinter wiped and that was bcoz they didnt handle the HEROIC MECHANICS properly and the normal mechanics shouldnt really be a problem for anyone as they are fairly easy to deal with.

    if it gets too hectic inside, the OP could just kite haromn around the area outside, should give you a lot more room and make it a lot less hectic, it might be a bit harder to deal with the slimes depending on your setup, if you have a destro lock, the slimes should easily be dealt with, just make sure you dont go too close to the gate where you enter the area or between the ah and the inn as the slimes might get caught and it will force a reset, in fact if you're kiting haromn around outside make sure the slimes spawn as far away from the outside walls.

    - - - Updated - - -



    those are heroic mechanics tho, doesnt exist on normal, but thanks for trying.
    So, you quoted the part where I mentioned how easy the heroic mechanics were to deal with and left out the whole part where I mentioned Toxic Mist and Fould Stream being the reason you split them up? Because, last I checked, Toxic Mist and Foul Stream were normal mode mechanics.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by supmeh View Post
    1.) OP specifically stated that his raid has troubles with the normal mode mechanics. Just because you don't see it being hard doesn't mean that it is impossible for any other groups to struggle. There was probably a group somewhere in Cata that thought normal mode Morchok was too hard to do.

    2.) He pointed out that the HARD part about heroic mode comes from the abilities that already exist in normal mode, not the added heroic abilities. You can debate the truth of that or debate the fact that the normal mode abilities don't hurt UNTIL heroic tuning, but pointing out a random statement and then trying to cover up faulty logic with "but thanks for trying" really doesn't mean anything.
    you do know they are talking about dark shamans normal, right? meaing mentioning hc mechanics is utterly pointless.

    anyways, as i mentioned in the post you quoted, if it gets too hectic inside, move the boss outside with more room to move around.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    So, you quoted the part where I mentioned how easy the heroic mechanics were to deal with and left out the whole part where I mentioned Toxic Mist and Fould Stream being the reason you split them up? Because, last I checked, Toxic Mist and Foul Stream were normal mode mechanics.
    again, why mention hc mechanics in a thread about dark shamans normal?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    you do know they are talking about dark shamans normal, right? Meaing mentioning hc mechanics is utterly pointless.

    Anyways, as i mentioned in the post you quoted, if it gets too hectic inside, move the boss outside with more room to move around.

    - - - updated - - -



    again, why mention hc mechanics in a thread about dark shamans normal?
    Foul Stream and Toxic Mist are normal mode mechanics!

    I mean, are you even bothering to read?!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •