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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    you do know they are talking about dark shamans normal, right? Meaing mentioning hc mechanics is utterly pointless.

    Anyways, as i mentioned in the post you quoted, if it gets too hectic inside, move the boss outside with more room to move around.

    - - - updated - - -



    again, why mention hc mechanics in a thread about dark shamans normal?
    Foul Stream and Toxic Mist are normal mode mechanics!

    I mean, are you even bothering to read?!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post

    Iron Prison is a pathetically easy mechanic to handle no matter where it is in the raid. Iron Tomb is pretty much just as easy. Toxic Mist + the other nature damage abilities is deadly. That's why people use the 3-tank strategy.
    and yet. you're mentioning them here which was why i erased that part from the quote.

    i wonder the same about you.

  3. #43
    when our main group cleared it we 2 tanked, but i like 3 tanking it for our alt run just because we are running 3 melee

    I would suggest 3 healing it. Send all your melee, 2 healers, a tank up the isle with the male shaman, and all the ranged, 1 healer and 1 tank on the bottom side, and just go around in a circle as tornadoes spawn. when ads spawn make sure your tank runs a circle around the boss, it makes it easier to aoe.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    and yet. you're mentioning them here which was why i erased that part from the quote.

    i wonder the same about you.
    Alright, let's recap, since you're clearly incapable of critical thought:

    YOU said:
    the whole reason to 3 tank dark shamans is to SPREAD THE HEROIC MECHANICS around as much as possible, so that the whole raid doesnt have to deal with iron prisons etc., there is absolutely no point in 3 tanking it on normal as the mechanics arent any where as close to punishing as the hc version
    I said:
    Iron Prison is a pathetically easy mechanic to handle no matter where it is in the raid. Iron Tomb is pretty much just as easy. Toxic Mist + the other nature damage abilities is deadly. That's why people use the 3-tank strategy.
    Now, read what you wrote and then read what I wrote. You said that the 3 tank strategy is used because of Iron Prison and Iron Tomb. I said, no, iron prison and iron tomb are easy to deal with using either strategy, the reason you use 3 tanks is because if Toxic Mist and Foul Stream (which, as you are, no doubt, aware, both exist on normal mode).

    You said, "why are you talking about heroic?"

    I said, "I'm not talking about heroic, YOU are. I was pointing out that the normal mode mechanics are why you use the 3 tank strategy."

    You said, "why are you talking about heroic?"

    I said, "I'M NOT!!!"

    Everything I said about heroic mechanics was in reply to YOU. I was talking to YOU. I was saying that, NO, you do not use the 3-tank strategy because of the HEROIC mechanics, you use it because of the NORMAL mechanics.

    So, and try to get it in your fucking head here, please, you use the 3 tank strategy because of how the NORMAL MODE mechanics interact with each other. That was the point I was making the whole time. Someone else that replied to you managed to figure it out so I cannot understand why you're having such a problem with it.

    TL;DR: Toxic Mist + Poison adds/whirlwinds/tornadoes = VERY DANGEROUS. Foul Stream on any of 8 potential targets = VERY DANGEROUS. This applies to NORMAL MODE (and heroic). That reason, alone, is why you use the 3-tank strategy. It has nothing to do with the heroic mechanics. Are we clear now? Do you understand? Because I'm not going to explain it again.

  5. #45
    Our first kill (W2 of the patch) was with 2 tanks (pala+warrior) and 3 healers (druid, monk, priest in semi-DPS gear). Fight was pretty chaotic as there is a lot of running around and one mistake by the tanks could lead to insta-deaths from the ashen wall or slimes.
    Our second kill (W3 of the patch) was with 3 tanks (pala, warrior and monk) and 2 healers (druid and priest in semi-DPS gear). Ranged group requires almost no healing if tanks moves away from the slimes and our priest had no trouble keeping them alive. Melee group healing is tough. Druid was pulling 160k HPS there. Most of the damage comes from those nasty debuffs, and if foul stream hits target with debuff - that target is pretty much dead. Melee need to carry foul stream out of the group. However, shamans went down in first try => 3 tanks 2 healers tactics works fine in 10N.

  6. #46
    iron prison and iron tomb are heroic mechanics tho, so technically you're mentioning heroic mechanics and toxic mist and foul stream are managable on normal not anywhere close to how they are on heroic but yeah, the 3 tank strat is valid on normal as i mentioned in an earlier post.

  7. #47
    We were having trouble 2 tanking it, after 10 or so pulls we kept getting it to 10-15% but it was so hectic and people just started dying and getting really spread out towards the end. We switched to 3 tanking it and haven't wiped on the boss since we made the switch.

    Tank them together outside of the starting building until ~70%. Dogs should be dead first priority. Then send all the melee, your strongest healer, and 2 tanks with Haromm up the hill to the right past the Auction House. Keep all your ranged, a tank, and your other healer(s) down with Kardris. Kardris group kites around in a circle, Haromm group starts at the top of the hill and slowly moves down it. Just keep Haromm facing up the hill. Have whoever gets targeted by Foul Stream just stand there and other people move. The boss should be dead before the Haromm group reaches the AH. It's very easy this way.

    I'm a healer in our group and I've healed Haromm both inside Grommash Hold and up the hill, going up the hill is way easier and less stressful. You have so much more room to move around.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    iron prison and iron tomb are heroic mechanics tho, so technically you're mentioning heroic mechanics and toxic mist and foul stream are managable on normal not anywhere close to how they are on heroic but yeah, the 3 tank strat is valid on normal as i mentioned in an earlier post.
    *sigh* I mentioned them because YOU mentioned them. You saw how I quoted you, right? That means I was replying to YOU. You said that they were the reason to use the 3-tank strat and I said, no, they're not.

    I've been doing the 3-tank strat on my Paladin ever since our first normal kill on 25-man. It's always been incredibly simple and easy. I've been doing the 2-tank strat on every normal kill on my warlock and it's always a clusterfuck with random deaths to any number of things, mostly interactions with Toxic Mist. Even when we were up to 4-6 heroic kills on my warlock, normal Dark Shamans had the occasional wipe and deaths to Toxic Mist interactions. As soon as we switched to heroic and started using 3 tanks, those clusterfuck deaths disappeared completely.

    The mechanic is brutal on normal. Yes, you can get around it, but it's still brutal -- especially for guilds still progressing on it. That's been my whole point all along. It's not a question of viability -- the fight gets immensely easier when you use the 3-tank strategy.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by delk View Post
    We were having trouble 2 tanking it, after 10 or so pulls we kept getting it to 10-15% but it was so hectic and people just started dying and getting really spread out towards the end. We switched to 3 tanking it and haven't wiped on the boss since we made the switch.

    Tank them together outside of the starting building until ~70%. Dogs should be dead first priority. Then send all the melee, your strongest healer, and 2 tanks with Haromm up the hill to the right past the Auction House. Keep all your ranged, a tank, and your other healer(s) down with Kardris. Kardris group kites around in a circle, Haromm group starts at the top of the hill and slowly moves down it. Just keep Haromm facing up the hill. Have whoever gets targeted by Foul Stream just stand there and other people move. The boss should be dead before the Haromm group reaches the AH. It's very easy this way.

    I'm a healer in our group and I've healed Haromm both inside Grommash Hold and up the hill, going up the hill is way easier and less stressful. You have so much more room to move around.
    idd, this is how we did it on hc and it works for normal as well, i think i confused the 2 bosses and wrote kite haromm outside of the area, it was ofc kadris i meant but as i said, i found it very easy to do by 2 tanking them and kite them both around the area, ofc i cant say how easy the 3 tank strat is on normal, never having used it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    *sigh* I mentioned them because YOU mentioned them. You saw how I quoted you, right? That means I was replying to YOU. You said that they were the reason to use the 3-tank strat and I said, no, they're not.

    I've been doing the 3-tank strat on my Paladin ever since our first normal kill on 25-man. It's always been incredibly simple and easy. I've been doing the 2-tank strat on every normal kill on my warlock and it's always a clusterfuck with random deaths to any number of things, mostly interactions with Toxic Mist. Even when we were up to 4-6 heroic kills on my warlock, normal Dark Shamans had the occasional wipe and deaths to Toxic Mist interactions. As soon as we switched to heroic and started using 3 tanks, those clusterfuck deaths disappeared completely.

    The mechanic is brutal on normal. Yes, you can get around it, but it's still brutal -- especially for guilds still progressing on it. That's been my whole point all along. It's not a question of viability -- the fight gets immensely easier when you use the 3-tank strategy.
    i mentioned hc mechanics as a reason to use the 3 tank strat for hc dark shamans only and then i mentioned them again when a guy made it sound like dark shamans normal and hc were the same fight which it isnt, 2 tanking dark shamans is quite easy as well imo.

    to each their own, i just found the fight a lot easier 2 tanking it, maybe we have better healers or dps that dont stand in shit or something. i can ofc see the appeal of doing the 3 tank strat, it should make the mechanics easier and the Op should ofc continue to use it coz thats how they started but just bcoz its allegedly easier, doesnt mean its easier for them, some guilds do better with "harder" strats, clearly my guild did.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2013-11-29 at 10:10 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    the whole reason to 3 tank dark shamans is to SPREAD THE HEROIC MECHANICS around as much as possible, so that the whole raid doesnt have to deal with iron prisons etc., there is absolutely no point in 3 tanking it on normal as the mechanics arent any where as close to punishing as the hc version, 3 tanking it on normal just make the fight longer and there is no reason to do that but with that said, it is a valid strat even for normal, its just not worth it imo.
    Here's the thing smart guy, since most guilds plan on doing Heroic after they clear Normal, it makes some sense to use the 3 tank strat in Normal to learn that strat on easy mode. So what you think it's "easier" to do it with 2 and there's "absolutely no point" using the 3 tank strat, if it works, why not do it?

    No reason to come to the forums and bash on anyone that uses this very viable and clearly easier strat in Normal just because it's made for Heroic. Don't work harder, work smarter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayth View Post
    When we first time did dark shammies 10 man normal we had three tanks and three healers. Still had dps for it ^^
    So did we, and when my Raid Leader brought this strat to the Officer's Meeting to present it as what we were doing i was against it big time. Then we get in there, use the strat and cleared it in a few attempts (learning both, the fight and strat took a little bit) and we've one-shot it every time since. The strat is sound and it works in both Normal and Heroic, so why not use it?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by freakyduck View Post
    Here's the thing smart guy, since most guilds plan on doing Heroic after they clear Normal, it makes some sense to use the 3 tank strat in Normal to learn that strat on easy mode. So what you think it's "easier" to do it with 2 and there's "absolutely no point" using the 3 tank strat, if it works, why not do it?

    No reason to come to the forums and bash on anyone that uses this very viable and clearly easier strat in Normal just because it's made for Heroic. Don't work harder, work smarter.



    So did we, and when my Raid Leader brought this strat to the Officer's Meeting to present it as what we were doing i was against it big time. Then we get in there, use the strat and cleared it in a few attempts (learning both, the fight and strat took a little bit) and we've one-shot it every time since. The strat is sound and it works in both Normal and Heroic, so why not use it?
    guess you failed to read the bottom half of the post where i actually said that the 3 tank strat is a valid strat for normal, ofc i cant say whats going to be easier for you, but the 2 tank strat was very easy for us, use whatever works for you, personally i wouldnt use the 3 tank strat for normal, the fight is too easy for that imo and 2 tanks gets it down faster and onwards to the next boss. i guess having an opinion is wrong and freedom of speech is an illusion.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2013-11-29 at 10:21 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    guess you failed to read the bottom half of the post where i actually said that the 3 tank strat is a valid strat for normal, selective read there?
    Nope, i saw it, but i also saw that you said it's not worth it either. So you don't think practicing a strat for Heroics in Normal isn't worth it? You think using a very easy strat for dealing with all the mechanics is not worth it?

    That seems a bit silly...kinda thought taking advantage of any strat to make life easier would definitely be worth it.

  13. #53
    on that particular fight it isnt difficult to change from 2 tank on normal to 3 tanks on heroic, we've always used 2 tank strat on normal and once we did it on heroic we used the 3 tank strat and it still only took us 10-12 attempt to kill on heroic, so either way is easy but ofc it depends on the raid and what kind of players you have.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyToast View Post
    We have had a few pulls on this and come incredibly close but the actual kill just hasnt happened yet for a few different reasons.


    We're using the 3 tank method, all three have pretty good gear. Our roster only has two healers, a mistweaver (me) and a resto shaman.


    We burn down dogs and take to 75%, then move haromm inside and kardris to the aisle. We have all DPS outside on kardris, and me healing a druid and pally tank inside on haromm. The outside group have no problems, its inside where some confusion is.


    We've had a 2% wipe due to just getting too hecitc inside, but our first attempt yesterday was going perfectly up until about 10% when the whole thing just reset.


    Is it worth going it the 'normal' way or is there any tips to make the 3 tank work better?

    Thanks
    What do you mean by "too hectic inside"?

    The only thing that changes towards the end of the fight is that they blood lust, and they cast their mechanics a bit faster.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    on that particular fight it isnt difficult to change from 2 tank on normal to 3 tanks on heroic, we've always used 2 tank strat on normal and once we did it on heroic we used the 3 tank strat and it still only took us 10-12 attempt to kill on heroic, so either way is easy but ofc it depends on the raid and what kind of players you have.
    Yet your still forgetting this is a casual raiding guild and since they are first at dark shamans at this point in the tier probably means they aren't the best players (or could have started later), so telling them how easy it was for u since you probably killed it on HC alrdy as well as many others doesn't help them at all, as they ALREADY told u they are struggling with it on normal. Learn to read the OP post and help them the way that will suit them best. It really doesnt help to tell them how good u were and how easy it was for you, when you clearly should know by own experience that the fight is way eassier with 3 tanks ALSO on normal.

  16. #56
    On normal, i'd always recommend 2tanking it - just because it's great training in regards to positioning and timing your reactions according to the mechanics.
    Getting the hang of wall placement and slime kiting while keeping taunts and raid positioning solid was one of the more fun experiences in SoO as a tank and it's kinda rewarding seeing the fight transform from chaos to a managable clockwerk.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobori View Post
    What BElloc said, take Haromm right up the side where you go to get to Nazgrim. Face the first Ashen wall against the back wall and then just focus on keeping them so you aren't boxed in etc. You'll only ever have two walls up at one time. We use our resto shammy with our Haromm tanks and a holy pally to keep the raid up. We also move Haromm up as soon as the dogs are dead.
    this is the way to do it on normal, if your healers are up to its pretty cake. almost snooze fest worthy.

  18. #58
    we just tank them next to each other and derp it down. we have one shot it on every attempt without any special or overly annoying tactics

  19. #59
    imo you dont have to get harrom inside that house. just be on the other side of the main area. so lets say harrom near AH and kadris near gate and or bank

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    you do know they are talking about dark shamans normal, right? meaing mentioning hc mechanics is utterly pointless.

    anyways, as i mentioned in the post you quoted, if it gets too hectic inside, move the boss outside with more room to move around.

    - - - Updated - - -



    again, why mention hc mechanics in a thread about dark shamans normal?
    He said that in the very first line of his post. He also pointed it out in the second part of what he wrote. Unsure if you just quoted the wrong person?

    Don't think there's much to add to OP anymore though.
    Good luck on the boss.
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