when our main group cleared it we 2 tanked, but i like 3 tanking it for our alt run just because we are running 3 melee
I would suggest 3 healing it. Send all your melee, 2 healers, a tank up the isle with the male shaman, and all the ranged, 1 healer and 1 tank on the bottom side, and just go around in a circle as tornadoes spawn. when ads spawn make sure your tank runs a circle around the boss, it makes it easier to aoe.
YOU said:I said:the whole reason to 3 tank dark shamans is to SPREAD THE HEROIC MECHANICS around as much as possible, so that the whole raid doesnt have to deal with iron prisons etc., there is absolutely no point in 3 tanking it on normal as the mechanics arent any where as close to punishing as the hc versionNow, read what you wrote and then read what I wrote. You said that the 3 tank strategy is used because of Iron Prison and Iron Tomb. I said, no, iron prison and iron tomb are easy to deal with using either strategy, the reason you use 3 tanks is because if Toxic Mist and Foul Stream (which, as you are, no doubt, aware, both exist on normal mode).Iron Prison is a pathetically easy mechanic to handle no matter where it is in the raid. Iron Tomb is pretty much just as easy. Toxic Mist + the other nature damage abilities is deadly. That's why people use the 3-tank strategy.
You said, "why are you talking about heroic?"
I said, "I'm not talking about heroic, YOU are. I was pointing out that the normal mode mechanics are why you use the 3 tank strategy."
You said, "why are you talking about heroic?"
I said, "I'M NOT!!!"
Everything I said about heroic mechanics was in reply to YOU. I was talking to YOU. I was saying that, NO, you do not use the 3-tank strategy because of the HEROIC mechanics, you use it because of the NORMAL mechanics.
So, and try to get it in your fucking head here, please, you use the 3 tank strategy because of how the NORMAL MODE mechanics interact with each other. That was the point I was making the whole time. Someone else that replied to you managed to figure it out so I cannot understand why you're having such a problem with it.
TL;DR: Toxic Mist + Poison adds/whirlwinds/tornadoes = VERY DANGEROUS. Foul Stream on any of 8 potential targets = VERY DANGEROUS. This applies to NORMAL MODE (and heroic). That reason, alone, is why you use the 3-tank strategy. It has nothing to do with the heroic mechanics. Are we clear now? Do you understand? Because I'm not going to explain it again.
Last edited by Belloc; 2013-11-29 at 09:40 PM.
Our first kill (W2 of the patch) was with 2 tanks (pala+warrior) and 3 healers (druid, monk, priest in semi-DPS gear). Fight was pretty chaotic as there is a lot of running around and one mistake by the tanks could lead to insta-deaths from the ashen wall or slimes.
Our second kill (W3 of the patch) was with 3 tanks (pala, warrior and monk) and 2 healers (druid and priest in semi-DPS gear). Ranged group requires almost no healing if tanks moves away from the slimes and our priest had no trouble keeping them alive. Melee group healing is tough. Druid was pulling 160k HPS there. Most of the damage comes from those nasty debuffs, and if foul stream hits target with debuff - that target is pretty much dead. Melee need to carry foul stream out of the group. However, shamans went down in first try => 3 tanks 2 healers tactics works fine in 10N.
iron prison and iron tomb are heroic mechanics tho, so technically you're mentioning heroic mechanics and toxic mist and foul stream are managable on normal not anywhere close to how they are on heroic but yeah, the 3 tank strat is valid on normal as i mentioned in an earlier post.
We were having trouble 2 tanking it, after 10 or so pulls we kept getting it to 10-15% but it was so hectic and people just started dying and getting really spread out towards the end. We switched to 3 tanking it and haven't wiped on the boss since we made the switch.
Tank them together outside of the starting building until ~70%. Dogs should be dead first priority. Then send all the melee, your strongest healer, and 2 tanks with Haromm up the hill to the right past the Auction House. Keep all your ranged, a tank, and your other healer(s) down with Kardris. Kardris group kites around in a circle, Haromm group starts at the top of the hill and slowly moves down it. Just keep Haromm facing up the hill. Have whoever gets targeted by Foul Stream just stand there and other people move. The boss should be dead before the Haromm group reaches the AH. It's very easy this way.
I'm a healer in our group and I've healed Haromm both inside Grommash Hold and up the hill, going up the hill is way easier and less stressful. You have so much more room to move around.
I've been doing the 3-tank strat on my Paladin ever since our first normal kill on 25-man. It's always been incredibly simple and easy. I've been doing the 2-tank strat on every normal kill on my warlock and it's always a clusterfuck with random deaths to any number of things, mostly interactions with Toxic Mist. Even when we were up to 4-6 heroic kills on my warlock, normal Dark Shamans had the occasional wipe and deaths to Toxic Mist interactions. As soon as we switched to heroic and started using 3 tanks, those clusterfuck deaths disappeared completely.
The mechanic is brutal on normal. Yes, you can get around it, but it's still brutal -- especially for guilds still progressing on it. That's been my whole point all along. It's not a question of viability -- the fight gets immensely easier when you use the 3-tank strategy.
Last edited by Belloc; 2013-11-29 at 09:57 PM.
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to each their own, i just found the fight a lot easier 2 tanking it, maybe we have better healers or dps that dont stand in shit or something. i can ofc see the appeal of doing the 3 tank strat, it should make the mechanics easier and the Op should ofc continue to use it coz thats how they started but just bcoz its allegedly easier, doesnt mean its easier for them, some guilds do better with "harder" strats, clearly my guild did.
Last edited by almara2512; 2013-11-29 at 10:10 PM.
No reason to come to the forums and bash on anyone that uses this very viable and clearly easier strat in Normal just because it's made for Heroic. Don't work harder, work smarter.
Last edited by almara2512; 2013-11-29 at 10:21 PM.
That seems a bit silly...kinda thought taking advantage of any strat to make life easier would definitely be worth it.
on that particular fight it isnt difficult to change from 2 tank on normal to 3 tanks on heroic, we've always used 2 tank strat on normal and once we did it on heroic we used the 3 tank strat and it still only took us 10-12 attempt to kill on heroic, so either way is easy but ofc it depends on the raid and what kind of players you have.
On normal, i'd always recommend 2tanking it - just because it's great training in regards to positioning and timing your reactions according to the mechanics.
Getting the hang of wall placement and slime kiting while keeping taunts and raid positioning solid was one of the more fun experiences in SoO as a tank and it's kinda rewarding seeing the fight transform from chaos to a managable clockwerk.
we just tank them next to each other and derp it down. we have one shot it on every attempt without any special or overly annoying tactics
imo you dont have to get harrom inside that house. just be on the other side of the main area. so lets say harrom near AH and kadris near gate and or bank
Everyone has so much to say
They talk talk talk their lives away
My main team has always 2 tanked dark shaman on normal and never had much trouble with it, even learning the fight, but I have done the three tank method in heroic as well as normal/flex when helping out lesser geared (also bad) people try to progress through the stuff.
Using three tanks makes the entire fight trivial really. Is it required? Of course not, the fight isn't that bad with two tanks. But does it make it a hell of a lot easier? Yes it does. I can't tell you how many groups i've seen that were unable to make any progress on this fight at all 2 tanking it that 1-shot it the first time they 3 tanked it.
All it really requires is the haromm tanks placing walls so they are well controlled. Personally I tank him in such a way that each wall he drops is right next to and running parallel with the walls inside the room. Then you just shift over to the next wall, theres like 6 of these walls, it's very easy to do. Then just try to minimize the green shit people stand in which is as simple is spreading out to be honest.
Easy peasy fight.
The random resets are quite annoying, i've seen them happen about 4 times now I think, but funny enough i've never seen them randomly reset during a 3 tank fight, usually they randomly despawn/reset when 2 tanking. Really wish blizz could make shit that worked right.
I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.