Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    How can I raid flex?

    As the title says.

    I was playing really casual, gold making, levelling alts, etc. That was a break from Cataclysm.

    I did a couple of runs at LFR with my alts, I geared DK to 520 iLvl, so I decided to try flex raiding. Somebody was looking for more players for P1. I whispered him and got invite. Well, we wiped on Immerseus and most people of the group has left.

    Okay, it happens. I, armed with oQueue and patience, have created a premade. We have one-shotted all the bosses from P1, but nothing dropped. It was tuesday night, and I was tired, so I went to sleep.
    Next day I did the same thing and we 1-shotted p1 again. It was not hard, anyway I was a little disappointed because I did 2 runs of p1 and got not a single item.
    After p1 was cleared, 2x dps left (we had 10 ppl left in the raid afterwards), I queued us for P2. Aaaand...

    1st wipe on trash.
    2nd wipe on phase 1
    3rd wipe on phase 2
    4rd wipe on phase 1
    --raid group broke up--

    Well, happens - I said to myself. I've created another group and... the same. 3-4 wipes, then raid broke up. I did it again and again, I even joined few p2 groups but still - wipe at Galakras.
    I've tried p4, inviting only ppl with 540+ ilvl and Downfall achievement. And what? Raid broke up after 1 wipe.

    So here's my question.
    How can I raid flex and gear up? I don't want to do endless p1, I want to do p2, p3 and p4.


    Oh, and a question. Is 14-man flex more difficult than 13-man flex? Why is it called flex 10-25, when most people run only with 13 people? It's a little fail in my opinion, 14-25 doesn't exist on oQueue or on my realm.

  2. #2
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida
    Posts
    5,015
    Quote Originally Posted by Radeghost View Post
    Oh, and a question. Is 14-man flex more difficult than 13-man flex? Why is it called flex 10-25, when most people run only with 13 people? It's a little fail in my opinion, 14-25 doesn't exist on oQueue or on my realm.
    No, it's not. There's this myth that 14-15 people is significantly easier, but Blizzard has themselves stated this is incorrect but the community believes it so you constantly see Flex groups that say "no more than 15", and I've even seen some unpleasant people say in their notes on OpenRaid that if there's more than 15 they won't go at all.
    NOBLESHIELD
    <Meliora> of Turalyon-US
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Mod Voice


  3. #3
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    No, it's not. There's this myth that 14-15 people is significantly easier, but Blizzard has themselves stated this is incorrect but the community believes it so you constantly see Flex groups that say "no more than 15", and I've even seen some unpleasant people say in their notes on OpenRaid that if there's more than 15 they won't go at all.
    Actually blizzard went in depth how they are stopping this NEXT expansion. It's minor but it exists currently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #4
    The numbers game only really applies to Sha of Pride's prison mechanic. But people like their grigris.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  5. #5
    Why are you doing pt 1 again?

  6. #6
    High Overlord Direction's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    104
    Flex is like LFR the bosses are a loot lock out so if you've killed a boss already this week you wont get another chance at loot on that boss until reset.
    [/URL]

  7. #7
    Brewmaster Gotai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Zaltbommel - Netherlands
    Posts
    1,382
    Quote Originally Posted by Direction View Post
    Flex is like LFR the bosses are a loot lock out so if you've killed a boss already this week you wont get another chance at loot on that boss until reset.
    Guessing OP is from EU, so he cleared it tuesday first and then wednesday on reset.

    Its bad luck man. Keep trying to make premades. Look where faults happen (healing, offtank, dps) and learn from it.

  8. #8
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    37
    Try Openraid as well. The groups formed there seem to not break up after the first wipe.
    Also maybe you are doing something wrong to wipe so many times on Galakras. If you make the group it is your responsibility to explain tactics to all and assign ppl with their tasks.

  9. #9
    It's much easier when you prove yourself to a few people and you begin to get a list of friends who raid at the same level that you do. If you don't want to join a guild that raids then it's a bit more work. Remember people who you like from flex runs, after the run is over or during a break whisper them and ask if you can add them to battletag friends list, call them first next time you're wanting to flex.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    1,993
    Quote Originally Posted by Radeghost View Post
    I geared DK to 520 iLvl, so I decided to try flex raiding. <snip>

    So here's my question.

    How can I raid flex and gear up? I don't want to do endless p1, I want to do p2, p3 and p4.
    You can get way above ilevel 520 without touching flex:

    1) Do more LFR. LFR gear is ilevel 528 and the gear is very good for it's ilevel.
    2) World Bosses: Celestials are available to anyone and award 2 tier pieces at ilevel 553. Ordos drops spectacularly good gear @ ilevel 559 (assuming you have the cloak. If you don't have the cloak, work at getting it).
    3) Timeless Isle gear using Burdens of Eternity (ilevel 535). If you spend a bit of time there you'll accumulate enough to fill those slots not covered by drops from 1 & 2 above, some of which will even be better than your LFR gear.
    4) Keep doing flex P1 every week until you have all the gear you need from there, especially a weapon.
    5) Valor cap every week so that your best gear items (world boss drops + Flex, esp weapons) get the +8 ilevel upgrades.
    6) Make sure you do your Warforged Seals quest every week so that you can have extra rolls at rewarding bosses: Ordos, Celestials, Sha of Pride are the top 3 choices for you at this time, although as you tick off the gear from each of those sources you'll start wanting to use them on things like trinkets, tier pieces, or simply the last few spots you have left to upgrade.

    There is also a ton of ilevel 522 gear that is available, from world bosses Nalak and Oondasta + cheap VP items from Shado-pan assault. If your gear level is only 520, these are still going to boost you a bit.



    Flex 1 is doable in ilevel 510 - 520 (Sha is a lot harder than Immerseus) without too much trouble for people who know what they are doing. P2 requires quite a bit more gear, especially when people aren't brilliant at the game (gear can make up for a certain amount of lacking in skill).

    People in Flex are a lot more fussy about wiping than they should be (IMO), and will leave very quickly if they perceive a group as a "fail" group (the irony is not lost on me). When a group is beating bosses, no one cares about ilevels but as soon as the group wipes, there will be those looking at the meters and gearscores and immediately concluding that the group isn't good enough, so they'll leave or start complaining.

    If you're leading the group, and you are the weak link, it totally annihilates any level of confidence and is a certain recipe for disaster. If you're going to lead the raid:

    1) make sure you have good gear
    2) know the fights
    3) know how to play so that you do the right things, don't die and produce adequate performance

    Nothing breaks up a flex group faster than a leader who is perceived to be incompetent and just there to be carried. And perceptions aren't always real - even if you are a good raider who performs well, some people still won't look beyond ilevel.

    So IMO you should avoid trying to organise flex runs beyond P1 until you have in the very least better gear - 535+ and you have more experience from LFR and Flex P2 runs led by others. I would probably also avoid P3 and P4 runs until your ilevel is higher because there is a high chance that you will be one of the main reasons for such a raid falling apart.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2013-11-29 at 01:41 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    No, it's not. There's this myth that 14-15 people is significantly easier, but Blizzard has themselves stated this is incorrect but the community believes it so you constantly see Flex groups that say "no more than 15", and I've even seen some unpleasant people say in their notes on OpenRaid that if there's more than 15 they won't go at all.

    they belive and it cause with less people there is less margin for error - i can agree that 25 man flex is super easy for 13/14 but ! it has to be 25 competent people (normal mode and geared raiders) and maybe 3-4 people geting carried - if u take 25 people who are new to the flex it will be a disaster regardes if they are even full lfr geared -_-

  12. #12
    I've got 523 iLvl and I'm always in the top5 dps, I know fights and I'm instructing people what to do so I don't think I'm a weak link

  13. #13
    Openraid.eu - As said earlier these groups are a bit more organized & don't break up after a first wipe.
    Don't actually forget to look at current kill videos - if you're watching Galakras from Fatboss you'll see that it actually uses a tactic that is outdated at this point (Assuming most guilds go with 2 groups behind the boss for example).

    Don't forget you could always network you're way in with guilds that are doing flex runs. We stopped running them cause everyone is outgeared currently but if some-one would whisper me to join I wouldn't mind it if he/she knew what they needed to know. When we were running flex I always invited the social/casual players in our guild as well cause I think it's important for them to be involved with some guild activity as well, in mean while they loved seeing content with the guild on a much easier difficulty. Not every guild requires you to play hardcore - in fact I think social players are quite important and fun to have at the same time.
    Last edited by Spartex; 2013-11-30 at 03:12 AM.
    Guild Master of <Defqon> 6/7 HC
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/guild/outland/Defqon/

    Level 100 Human Frost Mage, Outland.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...artex/advanced

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    No, it's not. There's this myth that 14-15 people is significantly easier, but Blizzard has themselves stated this is incorrect but the community believes it so you constantly see Flex groups that say "no more than 15", and I've even seen some unpleasant people say in their notes on OpenRaid that if there's more than 15 they won't go at all.
    It's not a myth. Just that not a lot of people understand it. I'm not 100% sure but this is how I think it works. If you go beyond 10, up to 14, boss/add HP increases, but no extra mechanics are added, e.g Malkorok voids or Noureshen balls. The breakpoints which Blizz mentioned are 15/20. Those add mechanics. This is why some people stop at 14/19.

    Now let's say an averagely geared 10 man group (2 tanks/2 healers/6 DPS) decided to add 2 more n go with 12. If they added 2 healers, they're increasing mob HP but raid DPS is still the same. Which is why it's not advisable to go with 4 healers in a 12 man, unless the DPS are skilled/well geared. Many groups wipe because "dps sucks" when in reality the leader just randomly invites with little knowledge of how the flexible system works.

    14 is easier than 15, assuming the extra 4 aren't all healers or very undergeared DPS, and because 15 adds more boss mechanics. Blizzard hopes to combat this by making the breakpoint system random, so that groups won't attempt to predict easier setups.
    I worry there's three of me, and each of us is blind.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Radeghost View Post
    So here's my question.
    How can I raid flex and gear up? I don't want to do endless p1, I want to do p2, p3 and p4.
    People will leave if the group does not have a strong leader and you don't seem like one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Basemath View Post
    14 is easier than 15, assuming the extra 4 aren't all healers or very undergeared DPS, and because 15 adds more boss mechanics. Blizzard hopes to combat this by making the breakpoint system random, so that groups won't attempt to predict easier setups.
    I tell people if they can't handle a 15m flex to get out of the raid because they are obviously don't have the quality I want to run with.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Radeghost View Post
    As the title says.
    Is 14-man flex more difficult than 13-man flex? Why is it called flex 10-25, when most people run only with 13 people? It's a little fail in my opinion, 14-25 doesn't exist on oQueue or on my realm.
    I've been in a few flex pugs (I hate joining them unless its a guild/people I know run, but sometimes I try) and I never know why people can't simply do flex as 10 people, 11 is too few so is 12 they always want 1 2 3 more, why? I don't get it. You're simply making it harder on everyone by inviting more people, unless you're all happy progressing in flex and that's what you want that's cool, but I still don't get it?

    Example, I joined a flex in the 4th part, and it was abysmal. We had 2 pulls and I left, it was that bad. Also the boss jumped 46m hp going from 12 people to 13, so I just don't understand why people who make flex group want to make it even harder on themselves.

    If you do flex, 11 is the max, because of the extra ress.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    I've been in a few flex pugs (I hate joining them unless its a guild/people I know run, but sometimes I try) and I never know why people can't simply do flex as 10 people, 11 is too few so is 12 they always want 1 2 3 more, why? I don't get it. You're simply making it harder on everyone by inviting more people, unless you're all happy progressing in flex and that's what you want that's cool, but I still don't get it?

    Example, I joined a flex in the 4th part, and it was abysmal. We had 2 pulls and I left, it was that bad. Also the boss jumped 46m hp going from 12 people to 13, so I just don't understand why people who make flex group want to make it even harder on themselves.

    If you do flex, 11 is the max, because of the extra ress.
    Well if people leave you don't have to look for new people for one. And flex is easy with any amount of people. And people also can get all their friends in.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    East Coast USA
    Posts
    3,545
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    No, it's not. There's this myth that 14-15 people is significantly easier, but Blizzard has themselves stated this is incorrect but the community believes it so you constantly see Flex groups that say "no more than 15", and I've even seen some unpleasant people say in their notes on OpenRaid that if there's more than 15 they won't go at all.
    There definitely IS a break point between 13 and 15 which Blizzard has tried to spread misinformation about. It may not be intended but it does exist.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Thete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Immingham
    Posts
    717
    The reason those people are leaving is because they want easy loot. However, from what you're saying, it sounds like you just want the same thing. You need to ask yourself why you're doing flex. If it's for the gear, again, why?
    Retribution Paladin

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    Thete#2661

  20. #20
    Epic! Zaxio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sofia/Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,568
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypasonic View Post
    I've been in a few flex pugs (I hate joining them unless its a guild/people I know run, but sometimes I try) and I never know why people can't simply do flex as 10 people, 11 is too few so is 12 they always want 1 2 3 more, why? I don't get it. You're simply making it harder on everyone by inviting more people, unless you're all happy progressing in flex and that's what you want that's cool, but I still don't get it?

    Example, I joined a flex in the 4th part, and it was abysmal. We had 2 pulls and I left, it was that bad. Also the boss jumped 46m hp going from 12 people to 13, so I just don't understand why people who make flex group want to make it even harder on themselves.

    If you do flex, 11 is the max, because of the extra ress.
    I can tell you why
    Example we do Garrosh flex 14 ppl in raid only 2 healers, the boss will feels lucky if he manage to cast empowered wirlwind
    46mln isnt nothing when every averadge dps do like 70-100 mln damage that is twice above boss HP buff
    Ofc the group is 550+ but that is something not hard for ppl who have cloak and you can carry some 520sh friemd in to raid w/o to worry that you will reach 3th transiction phase because lack of dps
    Garrosh for exapmle is the boss where you get the same number of adds in 10 and 25 only difference is damage and HP

    13-14 ppl with 2 healers is the best group because damage isnt too high HP on adds also they just get melted down for seconds only from cleaves and this alowing ppl to focus on bosses more and melt them more fast
    to Op if you going flex 4 go with 545 + ppl most of them with that level of gear can easly solo the weapon on siegecrafter in 10-14man group
    Last edited by Zaxio; 2013-12-01 at 10:43 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •