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  1. #1

    Elemental dps help

    I am having huge issues with my elemental shaman, my dps for my current ilvl is way to low, often hovering around 100-100k on single target and i can't wrap my head around why this is the case. My GM told me that my rotation is mostly fine just that i have a tendency to overwrite FS's, and that i've been working on but still can't see any significant increase in my dps.

    Armory char ((can't post links yet))
    Drostam on sha'tar EU


    I'm really stumped to what is causing this, i know the trinkets aren't the best, just haven't gotten anything better yet. Gemming and reforging is all according to how it was suggested, enchants also. I prefer unleashed fury for the most because it offers more mobility, never really got the hang of using EB in terms of single target dps yet. I also make sure to maintain a fire totem up all times.

    rotation is FS - UE - Lava burst - Lightning bolt. Earthshock on 6-7 stacks, Lava burst when it procs. And reapply FS on about 3 seconds left. I mostly stay true to this rotations. So why my dps is as low as it is baffles me. So if you got any ideas or suggestions i'm all for hearing them,

  2. #2
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ostam/advanced

    While my sim runs, i'll just say, i don't think heavy mastery works at that gear level. Especially with no meta, or cloak, or bindings.

    UF/echo is fine.
    Everything you've said rotation-wise is correct. So you know all the basics
    It might just come down to maximising CDs, positioning, movement etc.

    So the sim says 141k single target.



    so haste reforging should net you ~3k more. the 40k gap is likely just down to, like i said before, execution. not letting movement interrupt your dps too much. potting properly, and maximising CD usage/timing.
    Last edited by Franklyn; 2013-11-29 at 01:43 PM.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Jesmam's Avatar
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    With a quick glance I can say that you have way too low haste rating. And your trinkets kinda suck :/ I didn't run your char through SimC but I could bet that you would be better off using Ele Blast than UF at your gear level. And you don't have LMG or the Cloak, the LMG by itself is a HUGE dps increase.

    EDIT: Damn you Mallekai, beat me to it :P
    90 Ele shammy: Skithiryx
    90 Combat Rogue: Mukiloija <- Alt

    Animelist

  4. #4
    Thanks for the quick response guys, how much haste should i aim for ideally? drop mastery to 50% in favour of haste, or is that to steep of a drop?

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Jesmam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon2k3 View Post
    Thanks for the quick response guys, how much haste should i aim for ideally? drop mastery to 50% in favour of haste, or is that to steep of a drop?
    According to the SimC-result Mallekai offered us, it says if you reforge 5000 mastery -> 5000 haste it will grant you 3.5k dps increase. At that point you would have to sim again and see how the graph continues.
    90 Ele shammy: Skithiryx
    90 Combat Rogue: Mukiloija <- Alt

    Animelist

  6. #6
    Ah okay, thanks. Still not used to SimC, just downloaded it so still gotta get the hang of it

  7. #7
    Problems at a glance:

    -Full mastery build and no legendary meta. The legendary meta is what makes the full mastery build even possible, and at those gear levels (as well as not having it), you're better off not doing it. I know many of the top shamans do it, but they have the gear to support it, and you don't. What's best for them is not best for you, so stop copying them.
    -Your trinkets kinda suck, but you already know that.
    -Spell haste seems very low (not even 20%), and you're also showing as being under hit cap, though the dwarf racial is probably what's keeping you over it.
    -Call of the Elements is generally useless. There's really not many situations where you're gonna be able to pop it so you can reuse a totem right away. I personally prefer Projection (great for dropping Capacitor/Earthbind on top of mobs), but that talent tier is largely your call.

    Ditch the mastery, get more haste. You can't even begin to do the mastery build at your gear level.

  8. #8
    Okay, i want to clear something out right away here. I wasn't copying the top geared shamans. I have been using mrrobot to help optimize my gear for me aswell as use noxxic and other stat guides. All of them posted me towards going mastery primarly.

    I was going by the sources that i found regarding elemental dps and stat priorities so there is no need for that rude tone in your voice.
    Now onto the main points you make, you do have some valid points behind the pointless bantering, call of the elements hasn't really served much purpose for me and you are correct in that. As far as trinkets go i am working on upgrading them but haven't had much luck.

    based on the posters feedback above i went and regemmed into heavy haste sitting at 26.73% haste atm, considering regemming further for haste. And i'm hit capped, dwarven racial also counts towards spell hit if using that weapon.

  9. #9
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon2k3 View Post
    Okay, i want to clear something out right away here. I wasn't copying the top geared shamans. I have been using mrrobot to help optimize my gear for me aswell as use noxxic and other stat guides.
    Found your problem then Noxxic the majority of the time is a pile of shit, and AMR uses common weights - so as with every tool you need to know how to use it for maximum benefit.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Demon2k3 View Post
    Okay, i want to clear something out right away here. I wasn't copying the top geared shamans. I have been using mrrobot to help optimize my gear for me aswell as use noxxic and other stat guides. All of them posted me towards going mastery primarly.
    There's your problem. As Treelife mentioned, Noxxic is a terrible guide to use, and AMR often isn't much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon2k3 View Post
    I was going by the sources that i found regarding elemental dps and stat priorities so there is no need for that rude tone in your voice.
    Helping is not being rude. In most of these situations (where someone posts on these forums, asking for DPS help), it's someone who copied what the top shamans do, because hey, they're the top shamans so clearly they know what they're doing, I'll just do what they do!

    The full mastery build is heavily dependent upon two things: 1.) You have the legendary meta gem, 2.) You have the Purified Bindings of Immerseus (even the LFR version is better than many normal mode trinkets).

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon2k3 View Post
    Now onto the main points you make, you do have some valid points behind the pointless bantering, call of the elements hasn't really served much purpose for me and you are correct in that. As far as trinkets go i am working on upgrading them but haven't had much luck.
    My "pointless bantering" does indeed have a point, otherwise I wouldn't have said it. You may disagree with what I say, but that does not make it pointless.

    Many of the talents in that tier are rather lacking for Elemental, and the only ones you'll likely get much use out of are Totemic Persistence and Totemic Projection. Persistence is really only useful if you absolutely have to drop Healing Stream + Healing Tide, Storm Lash + Capacitor/Grounding/Windwalk, etc. Projection will likely get more usage in many situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon2k3 View Post
    based on the posters feedback above i went and regemmed into heavy haste sitting at 26.73% haste atm, considering regemming further for haste. And i'm hit capped, dwarven racial also counts towards spell hit if using that weapon.
    As your gear further increases, you should think about switching from pure haste gems to int/haste or int/mastery, once the stat values begin to shift and mastery increases in value once more.
    Last edited by Sock; 2013-11-29 at 06:32 PM.

  11. #11
    People worry too much about what reforges you should be doing.

    As you can see by the results i posted above, if you do go back and reforge/regem for 5000 haste, your dps will go from 100k to 103k. This does nothing to address the huge gap between what the sim has predicted, and what you're experiencing.

    It's not a gearing problem. The sim's calculations are with your current gearing set-up. Yes, more/better gear will help, but then you'll have an even higher potential to reach when you run the sim again. Also note, those results are for zero movement, and 100% perfect execution, which is not realistic. Any movement, or time spent doing other things (healing/healing CDs) will drop your dps.

    We kinda need to see a log, or something else to know what's causing the lack of dps.

  12. #12
    How can i produce a log if i may ask? what addon do you suggest using for that? I'll see if i can get a log done and post it here as soon as i have it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Demon2k3 View Post
    How can i produce a log if i may ask? what addon do you suggest using for that? I'll see if i can get a log done and post it here as soon as i have it.
    Logs are done via World of Logs. Look up the site, follow the directions, and make sure you've got it running the next time you raid.

  14. #14
    Wait, wait. You're using Unleash Elements? Because that's probably part of your problem. UE is garbage, and is almost always a dps loss unless you are EXTREMELY adept at pulling off the little double-flame trick with it, and even then, the marginal dps increase is hardly worth it. Elemental Blast would be MUCH better for you.

  15. #15
    Blademaster
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    Actually unleashed elements is awesome now after the tweaks they made with it on a pure single target fight or even a fight you mostly hitting on the boss and then cleave down adds then back on the boss it is the highest simming talent to take plus it does give you way more movement

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    Wait, wait. You're using Unleash Elements? Because that's probably part of your problem. UE is garbage, and is almost always a dps loss unless you are EXTREMELY adept at pulling off the little double-flame trick with it, and even then, the marginal dps increase is hardly worth it. Elemental Blast would be MUCH better for you.
    Very, very wrong. After the buffs, UF is now likely the best talent in the 90 tier, and definitely makes UE worth using.

    EB if target swapping is involved, PE for heavy movement, UF for everything else.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sock View Post
    Very, very wrong. After the buffs, UF is now likely the best talent in the 90 tier, and definitely makes UE worth using.

    EB if target swapping is involved, PE for heavy movement, UF for everything else.
    And how many fights in the current tier are only single-target, with no adds or swapping involved? Two? I'm only going by my internal testing and EJ/Icyveins here, but I've yet to see UF pull ahead of EB on any fight. Not sure if UF only becomes superior at certain ilvls or not, however, or with certain trinkets, though that appears to be what's indicated:

    "Unleashed Fury is currently not performing as well as any of the other two talents and should never be used. That said, it scales very well with gear and will be the talent of choice for single-target fights at Tier 16 Heroic gear levels."--direct quote from IcyVeins.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    And how many fights in the current tier are only single-target, with no adds or swapping involved? Two? I'm only going by my internal testing and EJ/Icyveins here, but I've yet to see UF pull ahead of EB on any fight. Not sure if UF only becomes superior at certain ilvls or not, however, or with certain trinkets, though that appears to be what's indicated:

    "Unleashed Fury is currently not performing as well as any of the other two talents and should never be used. That said, it scales very well with gear and will be the talent of choice for single-target fights at Tier 16 Heroic gear levels."--direct quote from IcyVeins.
    IcyVeins guide hasn't been fully updated for 5.4, and if you're a shaman, you should probably be using TotemSpot anyways.

    From the TotemSpot 5.4 guide:
    Your choice of Tier 6 talent comes down to encounter play style requirements.

    Elemental Blast - Stationary or fairly low movement. More consistent DPS. Better for target switching.
    Primal Elementalist - Mobile DPS where the target is not moving. More bursty DPS. Falls behind EB and UF for single target in 5.4, but pulls ahead for cleave (2+ targets) fights.
    Unleashed Fury - Mobile DPS where the target is moving. More consistent DPS. Currently the strongest on pure single target. However, because this applies as a debuff to the target rather than a buff to the caster, EB will pull ahead when target switching is involved.
    Important 5.4 Changes

    Changes to the way RPPM works make haste slightly less valuable than before, but does not change our stat or T15 trinket priorities significantly. As always, sim yourself to determine your own stat priorities.
    A 10% nerf to our Fire Elemental reduces PE's effectiveness in single target situations. However, PE is still strong in cleave fights.
    A small buff to UF as well as gear getting us closer to mastery and haste caps makes UF stronger than EB on pure single target. However, EB pulls ahead if any target switching is involved.
    At ilvl 560+ and when you start hitting heroics, UF is going to be better. It simply will be. It is worth noting that if you aren't specced for Unleashed Fury, you should not be using Unleashed Elements. That being said though, Unleashed Fury is definitely a viable talent now, and is probably the strongest one of the three once you start getting geared.
    Last edited by Sock; 2013-11-30 at 07:36 PM.

  19. #19
    In Short terms.. go for a haste build.. use Ele blast.. key binde you spells.. and remember the ABC. (Always Be Casting..)
    And plan Ahead. good luck on gearing

  20. #20
    My Ilvl is like 447 and I was stuck under 180k for single target. I finally got my trinket from immer last night and my cloak so hopefully I can figure out what to shoot for now. I was gemming intell and haste because if I went mastery, my dps went down a lot.

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