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  1. #321
    Unholy's niche is massive amounts of single target burst required from one specific player so you can give unholy frenzy to them and have them dps for you, and abusing health change mechanics like amber shaper before that gets fixed.

    Also sustained aoe situations on target capped add packs that don't exist.
    Last edited by Shiira; 2013-12-11 at 12:22 PM.

  2. #322
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
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    Paris
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    Taking a hard look at my dk, that I have played since woltk and I feel that we are taken with great caution. The reason is simple, blizzard is scared shitless for a return to S4 or whatever where we were OP.

    PVE:

    cleave fights: anything my dk does, the enhance shaman does better and so does the warlock. The warrior dps brings the same with more raid utility.

    Non cleave fights with low movements: The enhance shaman and the rogue do better and so does the warrior.

    Non cleave fights with lots of movements: Enhance rogue warrior fight for top stop, DK tries to play catch up.

    Did I mention raid utility?

    PVP:
    pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease. PLLLLLEASE. Blizzard must be playing another game. Warrior every fight, I wonder why?

    Anti caster: do not make me laugh, AMS with its cooldown is rubbish to scare any warlock or mage.
    Snares: For the love of god why are there so many things to actually STOP us from getting to our target?

    We are anti-melee? Mouwahahaaaa... Rogues crap on us with their stun, vanish garrote, poison stun etc... Did I mention warriors? Nope we are not anti melee.

    So not anti melee and not anti caster, anti healer? Good luck killing a priest, druid, paladin (lol no cast) or a monk. Necrotic strike? Shove it up your throat, give me god damn damage that is meaningfull and create pressure, let me get to my target and stop being chain snared, rooted, stuned!

    I have had more than enough with the state of DKs, the cry for NERF at the hint of any buff and the continuous blindness of the useless game designers supposedly looking at the scaling of classes.
    Last edited by psyquest; 2013-12-11 at 12:39 PM.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    The warrior dps brings the same with more raid utility.
    I wish warrior dps was this low.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by foonkinator View Post
    Hello all, Thanks for reading my post.....

    My question to the Death knights is, Aren't you guys disappointed in the dps we are producing compared to other classes @ the iLvL555+ ? Right now IM an officer/raid leader in a 25 man 14/14 going into heroic guild. I have had no problems ranking on worldoflogs.com for Death knights in the Unholy and Frost DPS specs. But now since most of us are getting to the 565++ iLvL gear point...... IM really starting to see my numbers not change and other classes booming pass us. I really find this discouraging.

    I consider myself a very very good Death knight since he has been my main since WoTLK and the fact that we are ranked like 20th overall for all DPS specs is really dishearten...... Anyone else feel this way?

    Sorry my old sig -- heres my profile http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...kinator/simple
    Why did you bring WoL into it? your overall rank vs other dks shouldn't change at all, since they are also affected. ??

    As for ranking vs other classes, did you rank top 10 in the world on fights before?

  5. #325
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post

    As for ranking vs other classes, did you rank top 10 in the world on fights before?
    This does not invalidate in any shape or form his view and the shared views that DKs are not doing well dps wise at end game.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    This does not invalidate in any shape or form his view and the shared views that DKs are not doing well dps wise at end game.
    No, you're right. That was a dumb question.

  7. #327
    I have many top 10 ranks throughout this expansion, ask me anything.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    Warlocks don't get to buff their dots for an entire encounter with one tricks, we did.

    As for cleave, we're only okay there when there aren't enough targets for it to be worth aoeing for the specs that actually have good aoe, and then we just get to watch multidotters, monks, warriors and mages tear the meters up. We're decent on encounters like malkorok and spoils where the targets don't live for long either, but that's about it. We still aren't above average on either of them.
    Yes they did.

    Never heard of Soulswap Crit dots on Ra-den?

  9. #329
    Unfortunately I had to sit ra-den and throne farm out due to real life issues.

    Why, what are warlocks abusing this time?

  10. #330
    I give up......
    Last edited by Skarssen; 2013-12-11 at 01:43 PM.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    *Pokes head out from bunker*

    Looks like all this venting has done people some good, people took that tweet much better than I anticipated lol. The bunker was dark....and boring, so I had plenty of time to think about our niche.

    It's a fight where the ranged have some completely obnoxious mechanic that stops them from DPSing most of the encounter with a single target that, 100% uptime and a good chunk of adds with 100k hp that spawn within HB cleave range and a magic debuff we can AMS that shuts the other melee down (sorry Unholy...can't think of your niche...or Frost 2H)!
    So our niche would be a fight where every other damage dealer would be baiscally permadisarmed/silenced, while we can optimize our little gadgets passive cleave and ams soaking, that got my hopes up!
    and yeah 100k adds on a greater spawn get eaten by blade storm/blade flurry+Killing spree and might not even without be enough to beat other dps ST excpet they're a very small margin ahead.

    I personally think, that Unholy has way more niches than frost, the only real niche of frost dw is its quick dmg and the abilitiy to switch tarfets with barely any penalty, which works somewhat well on spoils depending on strat.
    For Frost 2h would be burst AoE with a high mastery build, 2h has more str, 4set has doubled ap scaling from dw and RI is pretty useless on AoE. So 2h has potentially stronger burst AoE than dw, while being penalized compared to dw the longer the AoEing lasts as it can't use Oblit properly.
    Also Burst AoE in general with PoF 4 set and trinkets using PL + ERW + symbiosis is very brutal and has absolutely no ramp up, like that on thok bats personally totally destroying them. There classes with similar output but we aren't so bad at that if we have the cds for it atleast.

    For unholy, trinket procs + close to infinite adds(or atleast really huge add numbers ) which live for about 30 seconds would be really nice, as we could have the dots of doom up on them while not being affected from the AoE DR and so on, but that situation is way to rare. Would also work if the adds would just live ages because of not having to die immediately, uh dps on tortos 25hc back in 5.2-5.3 showed that somewhat good (900k dps logs if i remember right).

    The combination of passive burst (garg, army, pet, dots) and a strong execute with really good dmg control is not a if thats the case i'm god niche, but a good niche for single phases on certain bosses.
    For example you could roll dots on a boss, trading overall dps to increase required burst on a single important phase on a fight, because you have powerful dots, possible execute, army, garg, ERW and can just mash into your target.
    General Bosses with lots of downtime without them being immune to dmg is favourling uh a little because of pet + (strong) dots nad we can pull out the garg and hes doing his dmg without us necessarily having to deal dmg, so we can use it even if we have to jump away from the boss without delay.
    Also carrying dots buffed by dmg buffs like Ji-kuns 100%dmg buff, Sha of Fears dmg buff and so on.
    On a side note, I'm still the opinion that unholy does better with a festerblightish playstyle carrying dots from trinket procs to trinket procs(thoks + galakras at best) which would create 2min dot cylces but given the current state of uh its difficult to find out if its actually really worth it.

    The only thing that sucks on uh is the number tuning and perhaps rather the setboni, the delta between having trinket procs and no trinket procs is insane and the scaling of our ghoul sucks it is dealing less and less dmg compared to ourselves the more gear we get, while getting a setbonus increasing our ghouls dmg, thanks blizz for showing that you don't understand the dk here.
    2set is also a pure rng feast if it is stacking up or not and if we have it up while having trinekt procs also makes huge differences to not having trinkets up.
    The trinket matter might be a general thing though, dunno really.
    http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/eu/Azshara/raikh/

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Raikh/advanced

    Humans love to hate. They neither have to think nor to understand to hate something or someone and still they find a cause and solution for their problems.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    Been reading this thread and I will give my experience. Take it with a pinch of salt or dismiss it if you like.

    Playing a DK since woltk, currently 10/14hc in a semi casual guild.

    In any given fight, if there are adds:
    Warlock and enhance shaman then hunter then the rest.
    If there are no adds:
    Shamans and rogue or hunter then warlock / mage then DK.

    Funny note:
    Beginning of tiers I was first in at least 50% of fights, previous tiers was the same. Currently at 570ilvl average group I just do not keep up, same players different gear level.
    Funny thing i feel the same
    I got same progress as you and been here for a while. Because we have abit easier than many classes to get our BIS things in beggining it looks like we are solid. But as time goes by and all other start to climb in gear lvl we go backwards.
    Its easy to pick someone and say hey you play bad thats why you dont keep up. But this isnt anything about that problem for sure!

    Thanks for sharing!

  13. #333
    Heroic Sha of Pride no.28 (dw frost) 360k dps
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ipomj...?s=3050&e=3482
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isceral/simple

    That was my first time going DW for that fight. And due to having to tank for 4 months this patch my DPS gear is behind.
    Missing "thoks trinket and galakras trinket"... Those 2 alone, compared to the ones im using now "skeers, fusion-core" will be a huge damn dps increase.
    The thing I love about frost DW.. Is as you gear up, its the best class to see the dps gains. Right now I consider myself "plateue'd" meaning I cant juice any more dps out until I get those 2 trinkets ( +6% mastery/crit/haste..reduction of CD "pillar" both having str procs)

    I know im super excited to see those trinks drop.. And I dont at all feel my class is under whelming. I'm a B rez, AMZ "swelling pride, shock pulse" highest cleave class on malkorok add, top dps for spoils and other add sensitive fights "dark shaman pull" etc

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by prestilence View Post
    Heroic Sha of Pride no.28 (dw frost) 360k dps
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ipomj...?s=3050&e=3482
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isceral/simple

    That was my first time going DW for that fight. And due to having to tank for 4 months this patch my DPS gear is behind.
    Missing "thoks trinket and galakras trinket"... Those 2 alone, compared to the ones im using now "skeers, fusion-core" will be a huge damn dps increase.
    The thing I love about frost DW.. Is as you gear up, its the best class to see the dps gains. Right now I consider myself "plateue'd" meaning I cant juice any more dps out until I get those 2 trinkets ( +6% mastery/crit/haste..reduction of CD "pillar" both having str procs)

    I know im super excited to see those trinks drop.. And I dont at all feel my class is under whelming. I'm a B rez, AMZ "swelling pride, shock pulse" highest cleave class on malkorok add, top dps for spoils and other add sensitive fights "dark shaman pull" etc
    If you honestly think that then your rogues warriors mages and locks suck.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by prestilence View Post
    Heroic Sha of Pride no.28 (dw frost) 360k dps
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ipomj...?s=3050&e=3482
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isceral/simple

    That was my first time going DW for that fight. And due to having to tank for 4 months this patch my DPS gear is behind.
    Missing "thoks trinket and galakras trinket"... Those 2 alone, compared to the ones im using now "skeers, fusion-core" will be a huge damn dps increase.
    The thing I love about frost DW.. Is as you gear up, its the best class to see the dps gains. Right now I consider myself "plateue'd" meaning I cant juice any more dps out until I get those 2 trinkets ( +6% mastery/crit/haste..reduction of CD "pillar" both having str procs)

    I know im super excited to see those trinks drop.. And I dont at all feel my class is under whelming. I'm a B rez, AMZ "swelling pride, shock pulse" highest cleave class on malkorok add, top dps for spoils and other add sensitive fights "dark shaman pull" etc
    Reflection much?
    and i tought that Karel Gott is all the czech got:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39_1fUkxfZ0&feature=related

  16. #336
    Over half the damage that reflections took was from you.

    It's not hard to rank high when your guild lets you do cheesy stuff like that.

  17. #337
    Damage meters are just a game within a game.
    "I have it all simmed."
    Euliat

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by SSHA778 View Post
    Damage meters are just a game within a game.
    I often wonder if the game would be more fun, or more boring, without them. I want to say their absence would reduce the obnoxious epeen stroking that is all over these forums, but I suspect people would just find something else to fulfill their need for personal validation in a video game.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    I'm glad to see others arriving at this conclusion. I had a lot of trouble convincing my guild's other dps death knight that pushing phase one and two is largely unimportant if you're already doing them quickly enough. Gotta love those extra scourge strikes in phase three.
    I can't remember whom it was who I saw post about it but I found out about it when my guild was maybe 50 pulls into Lei Shen. I then mathed it out, taking in averages of our SS, BB, dots, ect and came up with a basis of per the number of average GCD's it took for us to kill the adds if it was worth losing the festered dots or if it was worth keeping them. I ended up doing probably 3 pages of explaining and math to wok out why it was worth it for us, and one of the dk's still ignored me. Oh my, it was SO satisfying to blow by him in P3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raikh View Post
    On a side note, I'm still the opinion that unholy does better with a festerblightish playstyle carrying dots from trinket procs to trinket procs(thoks + galakras at best) which would create 2min dot cylces but given the current state of uh its difficult to find out if its actually really worth it.
    Depending on your AMS soaking, ERW, and haste levels this is totally fine. This week I ended up with exactly 5000 haste, and on Jugg from start of the fight to just as he started casting his aoe I had my starter dots up. Gary came off CD right after (HWF Galk's eye gary CD) so I popped him and once trinkets popped I put them on and extended them twice before we got knocked back. There was probably only 10 seconds at most where I didn't have super dots on the boss. So it's entirely possible to have them up like that almost 100% but it depends on a lotta factors.

  20. #340
    lets be clear , Death knight are more than useless , the only good spell we have is Gorefiend grasp and it's not a mandatory skill

    other classe do the same as we do , generally in a better way , the buff we give are given by warriors and rogues , far better on damages mettre

    AMZ ? plz , stop kidding

    it's time for blizzard to stop the joke of difference between pure dps and hybrids

    "brings the player, not the cmasse " ?
    players are tired with this shit , we didnt topped the metter since the first tier of cataclysm , sinc warrior ( OH wait , it's an hybrid class, can still do better than some pure dps dealer )

    my point is : the dev fucking dont care about DK's

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