Anyone else Disappointed with our end game DPS?

[valliant13]

after playing my warrior for the night, I am beginning to wonder why they took the damage away from our level 90 talents. Giving us the intended damage the level 90 talents had would be a nice boost to our damage and actually make picking something fun for each spec because currently they all suck in pve with GG being ok if there needs to be aoe gripping. Which honestly I haven't had to use almost the entire tier.

Also Raikh, I liked your frost "overhaul" ideas, it seems like it was make the spec engaging again instead of being as shallow as it is.

[Shiira]

The damage was removed from our level 90 talents because if they did damage we would never want to use them for the utility.

What they should have done is shitcanned the l56 tier, put the l75 tier there instead and given us a damage tier in l75.

[Taninsam]

Pretty much. Also the only "punishment" would be using it below 5 stacks without a km proc, or waste stack by using 6 frost abilities. Would offer some micromanagement granting a good chunck of dps, which is something we currently lack somewhat.
The tuning is somewhat hard here, i see that too, especially as the mastery could potentially grow to insane degrees. Play that with a current dw spec in BiS gear with trinkets and everything on. 5 Hbs, 25% crit ca., so lets say 1 crit and 4 noncrit leaving you with a 1000k crit and 4 500k non crits. Because of 2set around 100% mastery, so infact the dmg would be halved, so 500k crit and 250k non crits. With a 5 stacks Cold of Death charge for 1500k dmg. Now you get a km proc and lets say oblit deals about 300% weapon dmg including diseases, so the doubled of a frost strike as through KM it deals frost dmg. Would land at about 700k. So in fact a 2200k hit or a 4400k crit, leaving you with a charge worth of 2-4 million dmg on your next obliterate.

You can imagine what would happen if you get enough km procs to keep that going, every oblit would hit harder and harder and that beyond reconing,
Thats also why it is a very beta idea. The idea is kinda nice, but its potential is stupidly unlimited atm. 2-3 million dps should be possible with a bit of luck if you patch it now.

You could always limit the amount of KM procs. Like if you cast obliterate when you have at least 1 stack and a KM proc, KM wont proc for X seconds. This X amount of seconds could be reduced by haste, to further improve scaling.

[KhalidTheGreat]

if it's only dps you're looking at, dks are not top of the pops, but viable.

[Shiira]

Viable is a word that I wish people would just stop using.

Yes, you can get away with a couple of weak dps in your raid, especially in this tier.

But why would you want to deal with that?

You don't, and the class representation in this tier reflects that. The only dps that have less representation than us are paladins and monks, and both of them outperform us anyway.

And what do you mean "only dps"? Our utility is nothing to write home about.

[Schizoide]

Yeah, people misuse viable all the time. A raid of 25 druids is viable, in that you can progress through content with that composition, it'll just be much more difficult. The right word to use isn't "optimal" either, as that implies heavy min-maxing far beyond what most guilds will do. The right word is competitive.

[scabobos]

Lets face it, we've become the mass-grip class. That's what we're good for now, and we just gotta get used to that I guess. God knows Blizzard will never actually fix our issues, only band-aid the problem until nobody cares anymore.

[Shiira]

and we just gotta get used to that I guess

No, we don't.

[scabobos]

No, we don't.

What evidence do you have that Blizzard has the knowledge/ability/intent to actually fix our problems? They'll buff unholy might, and then buff frost strike and call it good and we'll continue to struggle. So ya.... we kinda do

[Shiira]

It doesn't take a genius to understand what our problems are or how they could be fixed.

The problem is that we need to demonstrate that we need help for something to happen, and that means producing something that they will accept as evidence then putting it in the hands of someone who isn't just going to spew pr at us in response.

[Taninsam]

Well, I don't see many classes with a +29 page thread complaining about damage output - that should catch some attention about the issue at hand, am I right?

[Shiira]

It's a nice start.

[Schizoide]

I don't see many classes with a +29 page thread complaining about damage output

Umm, no. Everybody complains. You can't take volume as indicating anything. Hunters reliably create huge complaint threads every single patch that they rank in the middle of the pack. All that means is there's a lot of hunter players (and for some reason, they feel horribly entitled). What matters is the content in the thread; does it prove anything?

[Skarssen]

Blizzard has the resources to hire the most talented people in the industry. How they continue to make the same mistakes, i.e. continuing to apply base-damage buffs tier, after tier, after tier, and not stop and think "hey, maybe there is a design problem with DKs since we keep having to do this every tier" is quite amusing.

[Taninsam]

Umm, no. Everybody complains. You can't take volume as indicating anything. Hunters reliably create huge complaint threads every single patch that they rank in the middle of the pack. All that means is there's a lot of hunter players (and for some reason, they feel horribly entitled). What matters is the content in the thread; does it prove anything?

They have at least one spec that's above average - there's hard data to prove it. We don't and we provided hard data about it. They may have many threads but we have one HUGE thread discussing many issues we've been facing. If that doesn't prove anything, we might as well stop posting right now.

[Chrispotter]

Viable is a word that I wish people would just stop using.

Yes, you can get away with a couple of weak dps in your raid, especially in this tier.

But why would you want to deal with that?

You don't, and the class representation in this tier reflects that. The only dps that have less representation than us are paladins and monks, and both of them outperform us anyway.

And what do you mean "only dps"? Our utility is nothing to write home about.

Grip + Massgrip are very strong abilities. HC Garrosh progress, HC Paragon progress, HC siegecrafter progress ( to a lesser extent). 3 Tough fights on progression and Dks are very useful on all of them, if not mandatory for garrosh. Grips on Immerseus, Norushen, Sha of pride, galakras, Nazgrim and Malkorok are all very useful also.

I agree your on the lower end of dps but being the only class with grip + mass grip makes you invaluable to a raiding roster.

[damescool]

Well, I don't see many classes with a +29 page thread complaining about damage output - that should catch some attention about the issue at hand, am I right?

i don't see any large threads where it matters, on the actual wow forums. while its nice for us all to come here and talk with fellow players from around the world, its about time you all head over to the wow forums and let them know, or nothing will ever change. as it is now, i have little to no faith in seeing a fix or buff the rest of this expansion, as i'm sure they are all working on WoD and could care less about us now!

[Darkfriend]

Grip + Massgrip are very strong abilities. HC Garrosh progress, HC Paragon progress, HC siegecrafter progress ( to a lesser extent). 3 Tough fights on progression and Dks are very useful on all of them, if not mandatory for garrosh. Grips on Immerseus, Norushen, Sha of pride, galakras, Nazgrim and Malkorok are all very useful also.

I agree your on the lower end of dps but being the only class with grip + mass grip makes you invaluable to a raiding roster.

It makes having 1 DK valuable, but not several. Wheras taking 3 warriors isn't an issue in many cases.

[Schizoide]

They have at least one spec that's above average - there's hard data to prove it. We don't and we provided hard data about it. They may have many threads but we have one HUGE thread discussing many issues we've been facing. If that doesn't prove anything, we might as well stop posting right now.

Volume doesn't prove anything. If you think volume is the only way then... I guess keep posting? Or something?

I agree about hunters, if you read my post I said they complain when they are in the middle of the pack. In other words, way above DKs right now.

[Icathian]

The issue isn't DPS per se. Technically yes, we're "fine", DK dps isn't pathetic level. The issue is that in a game where everyone is busy min/maxing everything, even in a simple pug, people WILL pick something else over a DK. As of right now our class gimmicks don't put much on the table, and since the dps is below average...

I had to quit trying to clear content with my DK because I've started to notice that Pugs would rarely take me and I was struggling to find a guild, even though my warlock/shaman/paladin with 15 less ilvl than my dk got content going without any issues.

And i think others had to do the same, at least in my server dk's are a dying class, at peak hours you can only find 2-3 dk's at the Shrine, all of them blood. And 4x that number of warriors, paladin and rogues, even enh shamans which used to be rare are getting quite popular.


I just hope they change the class for the better with WoD. It seems though that everything wotlk based was forgotten, dk's included.