1. #1

    WoD, Blood Secondary Stats

    Hi there
    So for WoD tanks will be using crit/haste and obviously mastery as secondary stats.

    I can understand how haste could help us 'Defensively' and of course mastery,
    But what will crit do for us apart from more damage?

    Maybe death strike will rely on damage done instead of damage taken?

    What do my fellow Blood brethren think?

  2. #2
    High Overlord Ikrekot's Avatar
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    Secondary stats in WoD are Haste, Crit, Mastery, Readiness, Amplify, and Multi-strike.

    -Readiness- X% Readiness increases the cooldown recovery rate (aka, divides the cooldown by (1+Readiness)) of *some* class abilities.

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    -Amplify- X% Amplify means: +X% Crit Damage Multiplier and Multistrike Damage Multiplier, and +X% more Haste/Mastery/Readiness/Spirit/Armor from gear.

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    -Multi-strike- X% Multistrike means: Each ability has two separate (X/2)% chances to hit each target an additional time for 30% damage.

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  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Pencil's Avatar
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    I doubt they will ever change DS to heal a proportion of the damage dealt by DS. It will remain as it is or change in another way. They absolutely won't change ds to heal based on damage done. I think the whole 'crit' thing is a part of Blizzards new and frankly horrible idea that tanks should not be rewarded for how long they stay alive and how little damage they take, but how much damage they deal. However, blizz say they are nerfing vengeance so really we don't know where it's going.

    I think it's too early to start drawing up charts and priority lists.

    Still, I hope they don't change us too much. I really, really don't want a rune overhaul. I like the current system.
    pencil is cool

  4. #4
    I'm pretty sure we'll just be looking for gear that has at least mastery as one of the two stats, and then cherry picking gear where mastery is the higher of the two values afterwards. If SoB is still giving tons of runic power in WoD, I'm thinking haste and crit will both be sub-optimal regardless of what they come up with for survival in those stats (if anything at all) but with vengeance being significantly toned down (as they're supposed to be doing) we're going to want the extra DPS.

  5. #5
    To be honest, I hate the new concept of DPS tanking, I much preferred the style of Wrath and before where DPS trinkets were used purely to buff TPS so you'd hold stronger threat when you needed less defensive stats, and the main concept of tanking was timing your shit WHILST keeping up strong TPS

    This concept could've worked really well with Active Mit, but right now there's no benefits to holding a double Death Strike unless it's a boss like Ra-Den where you're holding a double Death Strike for each Fatal Strike.

    Mastery/Haste are good ideas for tanking stats, but unless Crit makes our Death Strikes maybe have a 50% stronger shield so it's not too overpowered and multiplicative with Mastery, I can't really see it being anything more than a DPS stat unless some things change weirdly.

    Maybe Crit procs increased armour or something like that based on how much crit rating you have, could be anything, it's still a bad design for tanking imo.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikrekot View Post
    Secondary stats in WoD are Haste, Crit, Mastery, Readiness, Amplify, and Multi-strike.

    -Readiness- X% Readiness increases the cooldown recovery rate (aka, divides the cooldown by (1+Readiness)) of *some* class abilities.

    twitter

    -Amplify- X% Amplify means: +X% Crit Damage Multiplier and Multistrike Damage Multiplier, and +X% more Haste/Mastery/Readiness/Spirit/Armor from gear.

    twitter

    -Multi-strike- X% Multistrike means: Each ability has two separate (X/2)% chances to hit each target an additional time for 30% damage.

    twitter
    Woah those are different than our usual secondary stats, but I'm liking them.

    Love that CD reduction stat.

    Thanks for posting sources too, cheers.

  7. #7
    mastery+readiness/amp

    amp makes readiness and mastery more valuable per stat. while readinesss and mastery are simply amazing

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk
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    Readiness is okay, largely depends on the length of the encounter, what the encounter is and how it plays out. There are some encounters were I frankly don't even need to use defensive CDs at all, and getting to use them more often wouldn't result in suddenly dropping a healer or making the encounter easier.

    It's going to be one of those stats you will likely want to build a set around and on some encounters do things you normally can't do. There might very well be instances where pushing AMS down to a super low CD allows us to solo tank an encounter, where other tanks can't.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Oxyra View Post
    To be honest, I hate the new concept of DPS tanking, I much preferred the style of Wrath and before where DPS trinkets were used purely to buff TPS so you'd hold stronger threat when you needed less defensive stats, and the main concept of tanking was timing your shit WHILST keeping up strong TPS

    This concept could've worked really well with Active Mit, but right now there's no benefits to holding a double Death Strike unless it's a boss like Ra-Den where you're holding a double Death Strike for each Fatal Strike.

    Mastery/Haste are good ideas for tanking stats, but unless Crit makes our Death Strikes maybe have a 50% stronger shield so it's not too overpowered and multiplicative with Mastery, I can't really see it being anything more than a DPS stat unless some things change weirdly.

    Maybe Crit procs increased armour or something like that based on how much crit rating you have, could be anything, it's still a bad design for tanking imo.
    Right now, for example, Brewmaster tanks get stacks of elusive brew for white crits.

    Each stack adds 1sec to the duration of elusive brew, which boosts their stagger and dodge by a significant amount.

    I could see warriors getting a revised mastery, and having crit drive chance for a critical block (making it scale alongside mastery)

    Additionally, Vengeance is no longer granting attack power and is granting "a defensive buff" instead (Likely just affecting self heals/absorbs or something). And tank Damage is just going to be passively higher (But not higher than a DPS in most cases.) which takes crazy vengeance cheezing out of the picture.

  10. #10
    mastery
    readiness
    done.

  11. #11
    The Patient Magdalena's Avatar
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    All secondary stats will have a defensive value in Warlords of Draenor.
    Avoidance (Dodge/Parry) will no longer be present on gear, so expect Crit and Haste to contribute more directly to our mitigation. Then, as has already been noted in this thread, we'll also have 3 new secondary stats to choose from.'

    In addition, as another poster notes, expect Tank damage to be much lower proportionally compared to what you might be used to right now (especially in 25HM raiding). An average Tank gearing towards mitigation should do around 70-75% of DPS's damage, whilst a Tank using DPS gear might do 80-85% of a DPS's damage but at a significant mitigative loss.

    I would also expect to see Blood's mitigation system to start scaling directly with Vengeance, rather than damage taken.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdalena View Post
    I would also expect to see Blood's mitigation system to start scaling directly with Vengeance, rather than damage taken.
    i highly doubt it -> either they would nerf it to be shit or it would be seriously op (unless you don't gain vengeance from absorbs) i would expect rune tap to scale with vengeance, mastery readiness and amp = best stats, they may put like X has Y% chance to proc on crit (to make crit some what usable)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Oxyra View Post
    To be honest, I hate the new concept of DPS tanking, I much preferred the style of Wrath and before where DPS trinkets were used purely to buff TPS so you'd hold stronger threat when you needed less defensive stats, and the main concept of tanking was timing your shit WHILST keeping up strong TPS

    This concept could've worked really well with Active Mit, but right now there's no benefits to holding a double Death Strike unless it's a boss like Ra-Den where you're holding a double Death Strike for each Fatal Strike.

    Mastery/Haste are good ideas for tanking stats, but unless Crit makes our Death Strikes maybe have a 50% stronger shield so it's not too overpowered and multiplicative with Mastery, I can't really see it being anything more than a DPS stat unless some things change weirdly.

    Maybe Crit procs increased armour or something like that based on how much crit rating you have, could be anything, it's still a bad design for tanking imo.
    They're talking about making all secondary stats attractive to tanks, so things like you mentioned will happen in the beta. I hope they do it well enough that the stats are so significantly different that they have an impact on how you play.

    Like going full haste in ToT was different than going full Mastery, in the fact that you relied on fast small blood shields instead of the big fat ones from Mastery.
    Much like how going full avoidance now is a faster playstyle than full Mastery because of the increased intake of Runic Power while elonging your bloodshield uptime.

    Have to say though, WotlK was pretty lenient with using DPS gear as a tank. After Def capping I went all out into Hit-capping and ARP as a Blood Tank and it actually worked out very well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdalena View Post
    I would also expect to see Blood's mitigation system to start scaling directly with Vengeance, rather than damage taken.
    Might happen, since vengeance won't give us AP anymore, but increase our abilities power.

  14. #14
    I tanked in full DPS gear for ICC and it worked out perfectly! ArP was certainly a great stat for us... I was using heroic Death's Choice and heroic Deathbringer's Will but that's about all I remember.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by torment3d View Post
    I tanked in full DPS gear for ICC and it worked out perfectly! ArP was certainly a great stat for us... I was using heroic Death's Choice and heroic Deathbringer's Will but that's about all I remember.
    Agreed, unless it was a ridiculously hard hitting boss or insane amounts of magic damage, going for DPS trinkets was no problem at all.

  16. #16
    High Overlord Fyersing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdalena View Post
    I would also expect to see Blood's mitigation system to start scaling directly with Vengeance, rather than damage taken.
    I'll look for it, but there is a tweet somewhere which suggests that the only thing Vengeance will effect going into the future is active mitigation (i.e. Blood Shield, Shield Block, Word of Glory, Savage Defense, etc.).

    EDIT: http://theincbear.com/tag/vengeance
    Ctrl + F, type in "vengeance" and go to the 3rd instance of the word. You'll have to look through his sources, but he explains the change. This is a reputable theorycrafter who routinely posts on the official forums.
    Last edited by Fyersing; 2013-12-02 at 04:49 PM.

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