World of Warcraft is 'dying', but not for the reasons you think.

[Giscoicus]

Pretty well put. In order to extrapolate out the idea that Blizzard has inadequately maintained WoW, I'd like to point out that the game hasn't done anything new or revolutionary in a long time with WoD not expanding the game really at all, just copy-pasting old ideas. On top of their fairly bad CS and their inability to adapt their business strategy at all to the current market, I just don't see WoW gaining subs for an extended period as it is now or seems to be in the near future. The game is old sure but being old doesn't mean you can't be loved. Look at some of these actresses that are like 40+ yet they're still hot as hell and I'm sure quite a few men would like to spend some quality time with them. The same can be said for quite a few actors who are 'old' too. If you maintain something, it tends to perform better for much longer. It's fairly obvious based on the numbers that WoW hasn't done a good job. OP saying that casualization isn't the problem isn't completely correct. It is PART of the problem, because during the first tier of Wrath, they for the first time, lost a TON of subs because Naxx 25 was too easy and it was boring. The game has been on an ever continuing slide since then. Could it be worse if they hadn't made LFR and stuff like that? No one knows for certain. However, it's impossible to not at least point to 'casualization' as part of the problem. They made the game too easy and too simple so people could just jump in and jump out. People have mostly stopped jumping in and now only seem to jump out.

Their customer service is a problem because people insist on opening tickets for everybody in tradechat they disagree with on political views. Or anybody who killed their npc or took their node. They have had to use auto-reply searching for keywords because of the mass of tickets. Heck I see people on the regular forums suggest opening tickets for language. You don't do tickets for that shit. You use reports. You don't do tickets for bots or anything, and kicking you from a raid is not against the ToS.

Just kinda bothered when people criticize their CS. They cannot help the fact that players will open tickets for EVERYTHING and fill up the queue. BLIZZ I DIDNT GET LOOT FROM LFR JUST GOLD!!! is not a reason to open a ticket. But I can promise you there were at least some who opened tickets today because they bonus rolled for the 3rd time and didn't win loot.

[Mormolyce]

Eh, players always throw around the words "casual" and "too easy" but scratch the surface and you usually find that's not the actual problem.

P.S. You don't need to go into commercial theory about product lifecycle to understand that WoW is declining because it's old, just a basic familiarity with any game ever. How many 9 year old games would you be prepared to pay $180 a year to play? Anyone who says WoW subs can go back up to 12 million is not living on planet earth.

[CaptainV]

If that was true then why is there still a good 7 million people playing WoW in the first place?

People may indeed be jumping out but remember that at the end of the day while the game is in decline and that decline is unavoidable, it isn't going to collapse just like that. I agree that as the OP says, wow's age is its ultimate end, and that's because its a prediction I made during the middle of WOTLK which has come true just as I foresaw it.

Me to a friend in 2009: This is the Peak of WoW, there's no way they can possibly do better than this.
Friend: You sure about that?
Me: It has 12.5 million subscribers, it cant possibly get any better than it is, that's the problem.

And I was right...

Cataclysm came, and from there it was a bombshell of down hill decisions to make the game appeal. See, People forget the core reason WOTLK DID so well was BECAUSE it became so casual friendly... for the first time in the game players of every path could get raiding gear, could if they worked hard enough enter the raids that were geared to be more casual friendly. MoP and WOTLK are very alike but id actually argue that some might not know this, but WOTLK was actually EASIER than MoP is now.

WOTLK was so effective because it appealed to so many people, it had an absolute crap tonne of dungeons so much so that leveling was a breeze via LFD and getting to 80 was pretty smooth. The talent tree's made some players near enough godlike in terms of customization so it was so easy to play the game too that at some points people could face roll it.

Then Blizzard made the single most disastrous decision in their development when Cataclysm launched, they basically narrowed the number of dungeons down which meant repeating the same content over and over when using LFD which was a popular tool for casuals to level. That content was ALSO increasingly over-the-top balls crazy about its difficulty curve.

Suddenly even normal mode became hardcore mode for the elite and this was why they had to tone it to hell in 4.2 because it was so stupidly over-the-top that casuals who had just come out of WOTLK with little experience in learning the game and more in enjoying it, suddenly had to become as pro as the hardcore just to play the game.

Hardcores were a flat out minority blizzard wanted to make happy in Cata's launch and it was a BIG mistake to go down that direction. Trying to relive the nostalgia of old dead times is never a good idea if the people that did remember it for all the wrong reasons are reminded of why they hated the game. Top that off with a span of no content what so ever for nearly half-a-year and you can see why Cata suffered so heavily, it just wasn't a good expansion, it totally went 180 on its player base.

But then they did go to far, and even if I am a casual myself and loved LFD, the introduction of LFR essentially was both a great decision and a terrible mistake. Opening that can of worms cannot possibly be closed ever again because now that LFR has essentially become the norm, if they were to close it in WoD they'd be making a fatal decision to go 180 again, and if they do what they did in Cata, that could be the "end" of Wow's subscriber base.

So yes, if anything kills wow its the ranting demand of a small 10% minority that can never be appeased no matter what you give them being given content that wont scratch their taste buds anyway. If anything Blizz should play it safe, continue to appeal to casuals from now on and ONLY casuals and remain true to keeping their interest in keeping the casual player base happy, if they wanted to INCREASE subscribers then going in that direction WOULD be the best call.

TLR?

WoW's biggest source of income and its biggest number base comes from the lazy ass guy that doesn't like to try to play a game and instead wants to enjoy it with his friends non-competitively.

If Blizzard turns on that community in WoD, disaster is going to happen.

[Theendgamelv3]

All I can say is that WoW isn't dying on Illidan, wtf I have a queue to get into it right now and it is 352.

[Giscoicus]

If that was true then why is there still a good 7 million people playing WoW in the first place?

People may indeed be jumping out but remember that at the end of the day while the game is in decline and that decline is unavoidable, it isn't going to collapse just like that. I agree that as the OP says, wow's age is its ultimate end, and that's because its a prediction I made during the middle of WOTLK which has come true just as I foresaw it.

Me to a friend in 2009: This is the Peak of WoW, there's no way they can possibly do better than this.
Friend: You sure about that?
Me: It has 12.5 million subscribers, it cant possibly get any better than it is, that's the problem.

And I was right...

Cataclysm came, and from there it was a bombshell of down hill decisions to make the game appeal. See, People forget the core reason WOTLK DID so well was BECAUSE it became so casual friendly... for the first time in the game players of every path could get raiding gear, could if they worked hard enough enter the raids that were geared to be more casual friendly. MoP and WOTLK are very alike but id actually argue that some might not know this, but WOTLK was actually EASIER than MoP is now.

WOTLK was so effective because it appealed to so many people, it had an absolute crap tonne of dungeons so much so that leveling was a breeze via LFD and getting to 80 was pretty smooth. The talent tree's made some players near enough godlike in terms of customization so it was so easy to play the game too that at some points people could face roll it.

Then Blizzard made the single most disastrous decision in their development when Cataclysm launched, they basically narrowed the number of dungeons down which meant repeating the same content over and over when using LFD which was a popular tool for casuals to level. That content was ALSO increasingly over-the-top balls crazy about its difficulty curve.

Suddenly even normal mode became hardcore mode for the elite and this was why they had to tone it to hell in 4.2 because it was so stupidly over-the-top that casuals who had just come out of WOTLK with little experience in learning the game and more in enjoying it, suddenly had to become as pro as the hardcore just to play the game.

Hardcores were a flat out minority blizzard wanted to make happy in Cata's launch and it was a BIG mistake to go down that direction. Trying to relive the nostalgia of old dead times is never a good idea if the people that did remember it for all the wrong reasons are reminded of why they hated the game. Top that off with a span of no content what so ever for nearly half-a-year and you can see why Cata suffered so heavily, it just wasn't a good expansion, it totally went 180 on its player base.

But then they did go to far, and even if I am a casual myself and loved LFD, the introduction of LFR essentially was both a great decision and a terrible mistake. Opening that can of worms cannot possibly be closed ever again because now that LFR has essentially become the norm, if they were to close it in WoD they'd be making a fatal decision to go 180 again, and if they do what they did in Cata, that could be the "end" of Wow's subscriber base.

So yes, if anything kills wow its the ranting demand of a small 10% minority that can never be appeased no matter what you give them being given content that wont scratch their taste buds anyway. If anything Blizz should play it safe, continue to appeal to casuals from now on and ONLY casuals and remain true to keeping their interest in keeping the casual player base happy, if they wanted to INCREASE subscribers then going in that direction WOULD be the best call.

TLR?

WoW's biggest source of income and its biggest number base comes from the lazy ass guy that doesn't like to try to play a game and instead wants to enjoy it with his friends non-competitively.

If Blizzard turns on that community in WoD, disaster is going to happen.

If Blizzard had left the game at Wrath difficulty then players would have still quit. Plenty have quit because Blizzard wont make more hard content.

Also, casuals are the fickle players. They are the ones who actually quit because they don't get lucky drops, their class has a balancing change, or they don't like the tier. Casuals are the majority of players who actually plan on quiting because they cannot fly, heck some quit because they couldnt fly while leveling in Mists.

Catering to the unstable playerbase means your sub numbers are unstable. They can ride out for a while with serious players or continue to plummet as casuals leave over every patch change or bonus roll that comes up as gold.

Lastly, not all casual players like piss easy content. Plenty of LFR players liked that stuff was hard at first. There are those who play casually but would like the content they experience when they do play to be meaningful.

[klmg8]

WoW becoming casual is the reason it's dying it's easy and there isn't enough to do.

As each expansion has hit the amount of hours played per week per person has dropped.

Vanilla and Burning Crusade most hours put in per week per player. Wrath still had a fairly large amount of hours per week but it was dropping, Cataclysm less than wrath and now MoP least amount of time played per week and with subs that are equal to when the game first launched. All this pandering to casuals and making the game more "dumb" hasn't helped them at all. They're getting ready to make the final great leap forward next xpac to even less hours per week making the game even more "dumb" and more subs lost.

[Deleted]

WoW is dying because it's old, casualisation was and is nececery to keep the sub drops from falling lower than they would have if blizzard stuck to their vanilla model. WoW has always been casual and blizzard is simply accomodating this for new generations.

Nah, dumbing down kills all games yet for some reason developers never seem to learn this. Every time a great game gets released, gets 9-9.5/10 ratings, breaks records, then the developers dumb down the sequel, players hate it and it gets worse, usually 7-8 ratings. Then the developers dumb it down even further and it kills the game.

[Awe]

WoW becoming casual is the reason it's dying it's easy and there isn't enough to do.

As each expansion has hit the amount of hours played per week per person has dropped.

Vanilla and Burning Crusade most hours put in per week per player. Wrath still had a fairly large amount of hours per week but it was dropping, Cataclysm less than wrath and now MoP least amount of time played per week and with subs that are equal to when the game first launched. All this pandering to casuals and making the game more "dumb" hasn't helped them at all. They're getting ready to make the final great leap forward next xpac to even less hours per week making the game even more "dumb" and more subs lost.

Stop spreading this false assumption. WoW is not declining becouse it went more casual. WoW is declining becouse it is getting old. Anyone with common sense will come to this conclusion. Surely, there might be people around quiting becouse the game is now more casual than before. But this is not something that sets the trend on its own. If all that matters is how the game is more hardcore and less casual, you should be all playing EVE Online. In fact, I believe that WoW would loose more subs compared to what it lost if the game was more hardcore. There are nerds around who like hardcore stuff (and tbh I am one of them) but casual masses is what will build the multimillion subs base. Anything that is built on concept of being hardcore will remain a niche. Loved by many, but still a niche.

[Giscoicus]

Stop spreading this false assumption. WoW is not declining becouse it went more casual. WoW is declining becouse it is getting old. Anyone with common sense will come to this conclusion. Surely, there might be people around quiting becouse the game is now more casual than before. But this is not something that sets the trend on its own. If all that matters is how the game is more hardcore and less casual, you should be all playing EVE Online. In fact, I believe that WoW would loose more subs compared to what it lost if the game was more hardcore. There are nerds around who like hardcore stuff (and tbh I am one of them) but casual masses is what will builds the multimillion subs base. Anything that is built on concept of being hardcore will remain a niche. Loved by many, but still a niche.

It is a stable niche. Catering to fickle players who quit because their class got changed, they cannot fly in some zones, or they roll 4 coins and only get gold means your sub base is very unstable. Also, many of the players quit after they down the end boss. Make the end boss super easy? players quit sooner and more quit.

[klmg8]

Stop spreading this false assumption. WoW is not declining becouse it went more casual. WoW is declining becouse it is getting old. Anyone with common sense will come to this conclusion. Surely, there might be people around quiting becouse the game is now more casual than before. But this is not something that sets the trend on its own. If all that matters is how the game is more hardcore and less casual, you should be all playing EVE Online. In fact, I believe that WoW would loose more subs compared to what it lost if the game was more hardcore. There are nerds around who like hardcore stuff (and tbh I am one of them) but casual masses is what will build the multimillion subs base. Anything that is built on concept of being hardcore will remain a niche. Loved by many, but still a niche.

It's not a false assumption Nelson has done the ratings per week of players for world of Warcraft for many years. When wow was at it's peak people played 10-15 per week that was during Wrath. In TBC the average was 17 so "casuals" certainly didn't build wow they just came along once hardcore players made it popular. Less things to do or things to attain/fast food McDonald content = less time played per week, fewer raid pugs, fewer people online and fewer subs.

Now wow shares the amount of time played with games like Second life and League of Legends (which is a grind just starting out). People spend more time per week playing Dungeons and Dragons online for gods sakes then they do wow and how old is that game? How obscure is that game? Hell lord of the rings online is nearly beating wow in time played per week. The game has become to casual and dumb downed. I don't want an EvE online I'm not asking for all or nothing. I think what myself and others are asking for is a meaningful gaming experience. Unfortunately for wow they gave into the casual crowd and now they have to dumb down further and further to try and stop their subs bleeding out. So you'll most likely get your wish.

[Awe]

It's not a false assumption Nelson has done the ratings per week of players for world of Warcraft for many years. When wow was at it's peak people played 10-15 per week that was during Wrath. In TBC the average was 17 so "casuals" certainly didn't build wow they just came along once hardcore players made it popular. Less things to do or things to attain/fast food McDonald content = less time played per week, fewer raid pugs, fewer people online and fewer subs.

And you really believe that WoW's weekly playtime difference which you outlined has nothing to do with the fact that now is 2013 and not 2006 or 2008?

[championknight]

And you really believe that WoW's weekly playtime difference which you outlined has nothing to do with the fact that now is 2013 and not 2006 or 2008?

It is as much of a factor as the supposed 'dumbing down' of the game in some player's opinion

[Mormolyce]

Cata and mop sucked thats why they lost subs

Normal? LOL? This graph presupposes that a game can charge $180 every year and continue to grow after NINE FUCKING YEARS?

The fact that WoW is as big as it is and has lasted as long as it has is SERIOUSLY ABNORMAL.

- - - Updated - - -

Nah, dumbing down kills all games yet for some reason developers never seem to learn this. Every time a great game gets released, gets 9-9.5/10 ratings, breaks records, then the developers dumb down the sequel, players hate it and it gets worse, usually 7-8 ratings. Then the developers dumb it down even further and it kills the game.

Another way to look at this trend: gamers call everything they don't like "dumbed down" regardless of whether or not this is true.

[klmg8]

And you really believe that WoW's weekly playtime difference which you outlined has nothing to do with the fact that now is 2013 and not 2006 or 2008?

I will agree there is natural attrition. But dungeons and dragons online is as old as wow it's player base logs in more times per week, Lord of the Rings is as old and is almost the same as WoW's. When there was stuff to do people logged in as the amount of things to do and the amount of raiding that needed to be done decreased so did player times. Which cascades into other aspects of the game. The hours that people can put in are still there it's just people don't log in. They play games like League of legends instead.

It is as much of a factor as the supposed 'dumbing down' of the game in some player's opinion

You can't argue that it hasn't been or isn't containing to be dumbed down these are facts. Just look at the removal of the talent system and now the removal of gems and reforging. That isn't "steam lining".

You have no choice, you do not need to read anything, you do not need to gem, all you need to do is log in and acquire easy loot, you do not need to think, let us think for you, let us do everything, shhhhh just play this game and eat some McDondals. - Signed blizzard.

[Stonecloak]

It's not dying. It's just becoming less popular. So subs will drop, but thier is millions that will play it forever probably, and it could potentially rise again, but dying is insinuating that sub drops are a constant guaranteed thing which they are not. We're at the tail end of a really out of place bad theme option by Blizz.

[Seegtease]

They have done -somethings- right, but in no way has Blizzard done the right things all the time. Itemsquish, no flying until 6.1 and reusing wc2 characters to bleed subscriber and box sale money are examples of their recent mistakes enough. That and insulting their casual community with stat changes while mocking their hardcore community. That was a fantastic laugh.

You cannot please all of the people. All they can do is please the largest crowd. Unfortunately for you, you're not in that crowd.

It's not worth it if it destroys the community and the game withers away. Those "hardcore elitist" players are your guild masters and raid leaders, they organize your RBG groups and server wide events. Without them the game sucks.

It sucks for you, but many others just don't care that much. If 1 person cares for every 3 who don't care, who do you think Blizzard will cater to?

Your comparison isn't clever. VHS/blu ray are necessary forms of entertainment, it's a bit different. Games are an optional form of entertainment.

What? All entertainment is optional.

[Lillemus]

I will agree there is natural attrition. But dungeons and dragons online is as old as wow it's player base logs in more times per week, Lord of the Rings is as old and is almost the same as WoW's. When there was stuff to do people logged in as the amount of things to do and the amount of raiding that needed to be done decreased so did player times. Which cascades into other aspects of the game. The hours that people can put in are still there it's just people don't log in. They play games like League of legends instead.



You can't argue that it hasn't been or isn't containing to be dumbed down these are facts. Just look at the removal of the talent system and now the removal of gems and reforging. That isn't "steam lining".

You have no choice, you do not need to read anything, you do not need to gem, all you need to do is log in and acquire easy loot, you do not need to think, let us think for you, let us do everything, shhhhh just play this game and eat some McDondals. - Signed blizzard.

I don't know about you, but I wasn't exactly having a ton of fun reading that I needed XXX hit rating in order to reach the cap, nor did I feel terribly clever or skilled for typing "Rogue hit cap" in Google.
The fact that other people will enjoy a dps boost while I in turn don't have to struggle to reforge my items as close to 7.50% hit and 7.50% exp (also using either either shadowcraft, mr. robot or reforgelite, all tools that I don't feel particularly brilliant for using) is something that I really don't mind. My e-peen will obviously suffer a bit as other people will be closer to me due to these factors.
In turn I get to focus more on my rotation and my reactions to trinket procs and otherwise research the boss fights so I can optimize my playstyle for certain fights. All things I can consider more interesting than looking at the fact that I need to reach XXX rating in order to do better dps.

Edit: So yes, you are right, technically the game has been dumbed down, but the real question is, is it bad? If I had to solve an equation of varying difficulty after each level of Halo (an equation I could just google) I wouldn't exactly praise Halo for it's innovative way of making their games harder.

[tylenol]

"BUT I raid and did "hard" dungeons in burning crusade. I also did that reputation grind in BC. back in my day flying cost XXX and no one had more than XX. In my day we had to run all over till level 40, in my day it used to take ages to level characters."

[Hooked]

I have played since the beginning of bc and just recently took my first break ever. I really want to still love the game but I just cant anymore. I feel like im wasting my time when I play now. Maybe its just getting old to me I dont know. I still have an account and its paid every 6 months, but I may actually cancel it.