WW Dps

[itsdub]

WoL Malkorok
I guess i should mention that i forgot to flask on that pull /baddie
My Armory

I picked up Windwalker as my offspec at the beginning of this tier for the first time and while I think I have most of the basics down I feel like I'm a bit lower then I could be.

Sorry if there was a thread for this kind of post elsewhere I only took a quick look before making this.

[Totaltotemic]

Can't see WoL report, perhaps it's private?

As for your armory everything is fine except the one Agi/Mastery gem in your pants and you should drop Ascension for Chi Brew and pick up about 2k more haste. That should result in a ~3-4% DPS increase.

I can't really comment more without a log, but your DPS is going to be a lot lower than your 561 ilvl reflects even if you do everything right because you're missing the best WW trinket (Haromm's, normal mode is a ~2% damage increase over AoC on its own) and your weapons are pretty bad compared to the rest of your gear. You also happen to be stuck with a lot of mastery gear and 4p t16 instead of warforged off pieces with 2p, which will hit your DPS pretty hard.

[itsdub]

Can't see WoL report, perhaps it's private?

As for your armory everything is fine except the one Agi/Mastery gem in your pants and you should drop Ascension for Chi Brew and pick up about 2k more haste. That should result in a ~3-4% DPS increase.

I can't really comment more without a log, but your DPS is going to be a lot lower than your 561 ilvl reflects even if you do everything right because you're missing the best WW trinket (Haromm's, normal mode is a ~2% damage increase over AoC on its own) and your weapons are pretty bad compared to the rest of your gear. You also happen to be stuck with a lot of mastery gear and 4p t16 instead of warforged off pieces with 2p, which will hit your DPS pretty hard.

Yeah sorry the Log was set to private I've changed that now.
I did get 2 pieces of gear to replace the 4 set with I was just waiting for the valor to upgrade them before equipping them and as far as weapons/trinkets go being a swing dps i kinda get fucked..
I will try playing with chi brew I've just been kind of avoiding it

[Totaltotemic]

Logs: Tiger Power uptime seems to have dropped somewhere, 92% isn't bad but there's very little reason for it to be under 98%. You missed 17 seconds over the whole fight and while 2-3 seconds at the start might be acceptable it really shouldn't drop anywhere else in the fight. I'd say dropping that much is probably a 1-2% damage loss depending on if any RSKs didn't have the penetration. It also seems like you had a very strange amount of misses going on, there's no way you should have missed 4% of your Jabs if you were at 7.49% hit like you are right now unless you just got completely screwed by RNG.

The one thing you could really improve though is to use Energizing Brew more and Fists of Fury less. That AoC isn't doing anything for you if you're still only using EB 3 times on a 4 minute fight. This will come somewhat naturally if you gain 2k haste and switch to Chi Brew instead, but when in doubt just spam Jab/BoK. Never Fists of Fury if EB is off cooldown. This should result in a 3-4% DPS increase (bringing you to maybe a 10% increase if you switch to Chi Brew, use EB more, FoF less, and keep TP up all the time).

In all honesty though, your DPS is fine for your gear and doing normal modes. I mean, you were 7th on damage in off spec gear. 287k in 561 ilvl with that gear is actually pretty good, even passable if you were doing it on heroic.

[itsdub]

Thanks for your time appreciate it.

[Luneward]

The only thing that really stands out to me is your Chi Wave usage. When it was changed in 5.2 it became a rotational ability (save on odd large bosses with hitbox issues like Garalon, but he's about the only one that comes to mind offhand). So long as RSK is not up and your energy won't cap, use Chi Wave on cooldown. It will account for roughly 8-10% of your damage.

[itsdub]

The only thing that really stands out to me is your Chi Wave usage. When it was changed in 5.2 it became a rotational ability (save on odd large bosses with hitbox issues like Garalon, but he's about the only one that comes to mind offhand). So long as RSK is not up and your energy won't cap, use Chi Wave on cooldown. It will account for roughly 8-10% of your damage.

Oh i wasn't aware of that thanks.

[thebdc]

It also seems like you had a very strange amount of misses going on, there's no way you should have missed 4% of your Jabs if you were at 7.49% hit like you are right now unless you just got completely screwed by RNG.

The jabs (and all other stylse that didn't land) were actually parried, so he was standing in front of the boss at least occasionally. They didn't solo-tank Blood Rage, so that might be the reason, although I'm not sure if Malkorok can parry while doing Blood Rage or not.

[itsdub]

The jabs (and all other stylse that didn't land) were actually parried, so he was standing in front of the boss at least occasionally. They didn't solo-tank Blood Rage, so that might be the reason, although I'm not sure if Malkorok can parry while doing Blood Rage or not.

I believe it was as you've said because even the other monk had 3 parries to my 4 with jab and I don't stand in front of bosses for no reason.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

Never Fists of Fury if EB is off cooldown.

really? doesn't sound that logical to me. If you use FoF while EB is off CD, you delay it by maybe 4-6sec (the channel, then another jab+BoK and your ready to EB)
whereas when you pull EB, you'll delay FoF by 10-15sec... (which is nearly a whole CD cycle if you have AoC)
IMO if you didn't have to use EB that much, assuming you didn't just simply forget it, it's not a problem of using FoF to much, but of having to much haste.
using FoF correcty is never bad.

[Totaltotemic]

really? doesn't sound that logical to me. If you use FoF while EB is off CD, you delay it by maybe 4-6sec (the channel, then another jab+BoK and your ready to EB)
whereas when you pull EB, you'll delay FoF by 10-15sec... (which is nearly a whole CD cycle if you have AoC)
IMO if you didn't have to use EB that much, assuming you didn't just simply forget it, it's not a problem of using FoF to much, but of having to much haste.
using FoF correcty is never bad.

EB recharge time is essentially wasted energy if it's sitting off cooldown. There's no way you'd be able to EB right after FoF because you'd be sitting at 60+ energy with RSK coming off CD and likely Chi Wave at the time too. You wouldn't use FoF at max energy, so why would you use it when you have a free energy button sitting there off cooldown? Either way you're wasting energy.


And I'm sure we've covered this a multitude of times here already, but AoC does not mean you should suddenly start using FoF on cooldown unless you'd like to drop your haste to like 5k in which case you'd be quite useless on the 90% of fights where using FoF will likely make it interrupt itself or get you killed if you don't move. The same rules apply for FoF as they always have whether it has a 25 second cooldown or an 18 second cooldown.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

EB recharge time is essentially wasted energy if it's sitting off cooldown.

Yeah. delaying EB by 6secs would reduce your EB's energy reg by about ~5 energy per minute. (assuming you use it every 65s otherwise). thats a jab+bok once a fight!
using FoF and delaying EB by a few sec would result in 1-2 more FoFs which is defenetly more damage.

There's no way you'd be able to EB right after FoF because you'd be sitting at 60+ energy with RSK coming off CD and likely Chi Wave at the time too.

no thats why I said 4-6sec. okey then lets say 5-8sec. The chance that Chi Wave coms off exactly in those 4sec where you are channeling FoF is 4/15 so about 27%, so you'll sometimes delay it slightly. (or delay the FoF by 1 GCD)

You wouldn't use FoF at max energy, so why would you use it when you have a free energy button sitting there off cooldown?

Because capping energy costs you about 11-12e/s, leaving EB unused costs you about 1e/s.

Either way you're wasting energy.

If you have EB and FoF off CD you're wasting something anyway yes. Never using FoF is basically an energy loss aswell (1.5xJab+FoF does similar damage(per time) to 2xJab+2xBoK, you just end up with more energy in the first case)

And I'm sure we've covered this a multitude of times here already, but AoC does not mean you should suddenly start using FoF on cooldown

Who said that?? But it's obviously you should try to do so if the optimal conditions are met. Without AoC you could be using it every 25-40sec if you wanted, and with AoC every 18-35sec (just as an example) so you will use it more on average. (=dps gain)

on the 90% of fights where using FoF will likely make it interrupt itself or get you killed if you don't move.

on 90% of the fights standing still for 4sec will get you killed/interupted? At a certain point overexaggerating just turns into lying... And it doesn't make your argument more valid to use big scare numbers. If that where true, no caster/healer could ever use 2 casts back to back. I wonder if thats true...
Having to stand still for the next 4sec is just one more condition in the huge optimal-usage-condition-list of FoF and can be easily tracked if you know the fight. Don't know the fuss that is always made about that.

[Totaltotemic]

Who said that?? But it's obviously you should try to do so if the optimal conditions are met. Without AoC you could be using it every 25-40sec if you wanted, and with AoC every 18-35sec (just as an example) so you will use it more on average. (=dps gain)

Yes and you have to drop an absurd amount of haste to do this, which means not only being more useless on fights where FoF is neither ideal or even a good idea (basically anything with any kind of AoE) but on fights when you do use it the channel time is even longer, making you more vulnerable to wasting ticks from having to move. Go try to find any heroic fight in SoO where anyone in the top 100 WoL parses uses FoF more than once every 30 seconds. You won't find them, at all. AoC is an illusion, no one actually spends 20% of a fight channelling Fists of Fury.

As for EB, FoF is only a 20% damage increase over 1.5 BoKs, thus wasting any more than 12 energy turns it from a DPS gain to a DPS loss. Conditions to not cap out on energy during EB require having 0 chi and being under 40 energy to sustainably Jab/BoK + Combo Breakers, and after FoF you will have at least 40 energy requiring a Jab + RSK which will likely leave you with enough energy to Jab once more, and to have low enough energy to warrant FoF in the first place we have to assume it's been some time since Chi Wave so that will likely be up too. It only takes actually playing WW for about 5 minutes to realize that you'll never be low enough for an EB burn 5 seconds after FoF.

Fists of Fury is hardly a DPS increase as it is, putting it on a pedestal so much that it interferes with the real WW abilities almost certainly will cost you DPS. You can talk about how much you can forecast boss mechanics as much as you like, but if you actually take all of that into account you end up using it no more than twice a minute at most. I only mentioned that OP should use it less because he seemed to not be utilizing EB and (even taking miss/parries into account) still missed 10% of his FoF ticks, which means it was certainly costing DPS rather than gaining it. It's not an important ability, you could take it off your bars and you wouldn't even notice a difference in DPS, which is why I make it a point to only ever tell people to use it more if it seems like they're not using it at all on single target fights.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

It only takes actually playing WW for about 5 minutes to realize that you'll never be low enough for an EB burn 5 seconds after FoF.

no 5sec isn't the normal case, but its nevertheless possible. if you go e.g. Jab, RSK, Jab, FoF and you start your FoF with nearly no energy left, you generate ~60energy during the chanel and can pull EB directly after the consecutive Jab.
But doesn't really matter. FoF is a damage gain if it is possible to use it. Not having it on your bares is just plain wrong.
It is sad though that it is only such a small damage increase. The could just buff it by 20% or so, just to make it feel as if it is doing anything.
(a cooldown based ability that does not actually do more damage than your baseline ablities, just cost less resources is not fun)

[Deleted]

Something that I don't see a lot of people mention (but happens to me a lot) is that one of your trinkets procs during a FoF. FoF snapshots, so it won't do extra damage. Activating your TeB stacks breaks your channel, which is a DPS loss. Letting your FoF finish costs you valuable seconds on your proc, especially with short RPPM procs of 10 seconds like Haromm and (especially) Ticking Ebon Detonator.

I still use in in my rotation whenever I can though, but (like so many monks out there) I'm doubting. Simcraft shows it's still a pretty huge DPET increase compared to BoK, plus the energy regen is nice. Also since more people stack more haste, because they take up Chi Brew, FoF becomes stronger. More haste means shorter channeling time, which means DPS increase, more average chi spends per second and it's easier to fit it in. However the trinket example I explained above, plus the fact you have to meet so many conditions to actually make this work for you makes me doubt if I should remain keeping this in my rotation.

Seems like I'm not the only one with those doubts. Down- (or plus!) side of a new class I recon.

[Totaltotemic]

Also since more people stack more haste, because they take up Chi Brew, FoF becomes stronger. More haste means shorter channeling time, which means DPS increase, more average chi spends per second and it's easier to fit it in.

That's actually not how it works, it's a confusing beast. FoF becomes shorter yes, but more haste would have meant more AAs that you'd miss by channeling FoF. The only thing reducing the channel time does is stop it from interfering with the way haste scales with AAs. FoF still does the same damage and still only ticks 5 times regardless of how much haste you have.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

FoF becomes shorter yes, but more haste would have meant more AAs that you'd miss by channeling FoF.

Thats wrong actually. Your castspeed increases, but your attack speed also by the same relative amount, so you will always be missing the same average amount of AAs per FoF. But that's not really that important. (also you generate the same fix amount of energy in that time per FoF as regen increases by the same factor)
But the haste does make it relativly better than BoK the more you have.

[Babylonius]

Thats wrong actually. Your castspeed increases, but your attack speed also by the same relative amount, so you will always be missing the same average amount of AAs per FoF. But that's not really that important. (also you generate the same fix amount of energy in that time per FoF as regen increases by the same factor)
But the haste does make it relativly better than BoK the more you have.

You called him wrong then echoed him. Shorter cast time but missing more AA due to scaling the same = cast speed increases as does attack speed.

FoF becomes less useful because the conditions that need to be met for it to be optimal occur less due to less low energy.

[Totaltotemic]

But the haste does make it relativly better than BoK the more you have.

No it doesn't, FoF does the exact same amount of damage with 500% haste as it does with 0% haste, the same is true for BoK. Literally the only difference between FoF and 1.5 BoKs is that the time that you would AA during FoF is baked into FoF's damage, the remaining amount is about 20% larger than just the BoKs.

Shortening the channel time with haste is a fix because if it did not then FoF would actually get worse with haste relative to BoK because you'd be missing more AAs during the channel. It doesn't mean FoF scales with haste, it just means FoF doesn't get worse with haste.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

You called him wrong then echoed him. Shorter cast time but missing more AA due to scaling the same = cast speed increases as does attack speed.

don't know if you are missunderstanding me or I don't understand you, but you don't miss more AAs with higher haste is what I want to say. the amount of AAs missed is constant.

No it doesn't

Yes it does. FoF scales to a certain extend with haste. Even if it's just the fact that you spend less time casting (more damage per casting time)
That leaves you with more empty time that you can fill by going for higher haste (and haste is said to be better than crit as long as you have free gcds).
BoK itself doesn't scale at all with haste. Well that's the theory. (The cooldown of FoF is just to high for haste really to matter at all)