Precisely. It's a bummer when people don't do something in game with moderation; as the rest of us eventually suffer when they complain enough that Blizzard thinks it's a game problem. It's a person problem, not a mechanic issue.
Timeless has been a blast and a really fun alternative to the tedious dailies grind I was loathed to do.
My wife gets sick of being forced into dailies and usually quits WoW till the next expansion (a trend since TBC with us), when dailies become the focus. She's still playing and that is still awesome.
I had a serious problem with dailies when Mists launch. It almost instantly turned me away from the game. However, the implementation going forward including shieldwall and ToT was pretty much spot on. Those were the daily experiences I wanted. The Timeless Isle was super fun for one week, then it turned into a pointless area where there's really no reason to ever go back there other than 'because I can'. It was a neat experiment, but if they are planning on the majority of WoD content to be delivered in this format they need to seriously up their investment in design time to content given. It would need to quadruple at the least to make it viable.
BAD WOLF
Yup always loved doing dailies. Just they messed up with them when MoP first came out. Isle of Thunder was perfect. I'd like to see a mix of both Timeless Isle and dailies. Someone mentioned above me about the same thing and really like the idea of it.
I like dailies because I enjoy the feeling to log in every day and do something that works towards something (rep, title, mount, et cetera; also golds good).
Except you do need a certain ilevel to overcome DPS checks, survive unavoidable raid-wide damage, and/or heal effectively. The best player in the world isn't doing SoO in 466 blues unless his entire group is already decked out in heroic SoO gear, in which case they can afford to carry him when he dies and/or underperforms.
The problem is that the "required" way is MUCH faster than any of the other ways. We're talking days versus months. If you told me that there was an alternative that would let you gear in two weeks I'd agree that the option isn't "required." I've gotten one burden since resubscribing to the game, and it was a guaranteed one-time deal that my friend took me to on his two-seater mount. I haven't seen one since. I pretty much LFRed my way up to a point where my guild could bring me on Flex runs, but without LFR I'm pretty sure I would still be in all 496 gear with one 535 piece and maybe a couple of 522 valor pieces right now. Crafting is painfully slow, and even that depended on LFR (for me) because my balanced trillium and lighting ingot recipes dropped in LFR. Even then, at one ingot a day we're talking months to craft gear that is appropriate to the current tier.
Both the Daily model and the Timeless Isle model have their pros and cons, but BOTH are optional content.
They provide some catch up mechanics, but not something you need to do for months on end.
I have seen some people make claims that they need gear, but that is just not a valid concern at this point.
Its three months into the patch, if you still don't have the one piece of optimal rolled gear from the Timeless isle, its not what is stopping you from getting into a guild, or stopping you from progression as a whole.
This was the same issue we were presented with in the beginning of the expansion.
People claimed they needed the gear to do MSV and HoF, but that was never the case. It was a reward for your work on the dailies, but not required to actually raid, as the gear from the dailies were the same ilvl as the gear from the raids itself.
The problems come from players who are in poorly-lead groups, or are misinformed themselves, and don't understand how gearing works in World of Warcraft. It can also be a concern for top world guilds, but obviously that is not the topic we are examining here.
The timeless isle is an amazing addition to the game, and I for one love it. However, I no longer go there at all. Its not because I prefer dailies, its because I no longer need anything from there, and am not interested in finding peices to overlap just incase I get a better diablo style roll.
That is not how gear works in MoP.
Real gear comes from raids, so head in Flex and LFR and work on your set there.
THEN you'll be better equipped to find a guild doing normals.
NOPEEEEEEEE , not for me.
"Spread the Sickness, Infect the World"
http://www.youtube.com/user/disturbedtv
http://www.facebook.com/Disturbed?fref=ts
<Whatever> 7/7M 4d/w recruiting specific classes
Yeah I personally don't mind dailies as long as it's not as extreme as in 5.0.
I hope Blizzard keeps doing some dailies, and mix things up with a bit of Timeless Isle-style things, and they don't just never do dailies again as a backlash from 5.0.
My addons:
Announce Interrupts: Announces in chat when you interrupt a spell.
Tol Barad Reminder: Reminds you to queue for Tol Barad by printing a message when the battle is approaching.
EasyLogger: Turns on /combatlog inside raid instances, and off outside.
Simple class resource bars: Paladin Rogue Shaman Monk Priest
No, dailies get boring when they *feel* repetitious. They're the exact same quests. I.E. I've had to kill the same terrible demon exiting the IQD portal for years.
Timeless Isle is a freeform place where I can decide where I go and what I do. It may be yet another illusion of choice... but it's a far more convincing illusion than "it's Friday... so that's Skyfire Dailies".
Timeless isn't perfect, ShaoHao rep is obnoxious and so I decided it wasn't important to me. Conveniently, here's my favorite quote about it from Zarhym.
Gaining Shaohao rep is largely for flavor and not something everyone is going to want, and certainly not need, to do.
Timeless Isle is actually worse than dailies from the design perspective, because it's essentially a Skinner Box.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant...ioning_chamber
Dailies make you do specific thing and give you predictable, rationed reward. You know exactly how many days you need to quest to achieve a certain rep or certain item. Timeless Isle gives you infinite number of mobs to fight, but each one MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have a reward. This is the same technique used by slot machines, it is known to trigger obsessive behavior.
The night is dark and full of terrors...
I 100% agree. It seems like in Blizzard's mind, players either get one or the other.
Example: Dungeons were really hard in BC. Let's make them more casual in WOTLK! Dungeons were too easy in WOTLK. Let's make them harder in Cata! Dungeons were too hard in Cata and were nerfed to shit. Maybe we should find a balance and only lower the difficulty a little, so that players will still be challenged, but not discouraged... Nope, make them easy as shit again in Mists. But I guess that's why they introduced challenge modes.
Point is, I would've liked to see a good number of dailies in WoD; 5.1 was really good, I would enjoy dailies like that and some Timeless Isle esque stuff. But little to no dailies? Come on Blizz.
Timeless Isle is great, but it literally is only a mindless grind.
Man, I've got bags under my eyes... BAGS OF MONEY!
See ya later, peasants.
Praise The Sun!
Except Dailies arrn't the same, they alternate and can differ considerably from other reps. You yourself agreed anything becomes repetitive without moderation. You obviously didn't incorporate moderation. Now Timeless offers only 3 activities - rare killing, elite killing & chest hunting. Besides PvP & LFR what's there do but repeat the same three activities - at least dailies offered variety
Dailies dictate how much you can do in a day. Timeless Isle-styled content doesn't.
It's important that the Timeless Isle is just an example of the model, not the be-all end-all. Future content in that style (like a lot of Warlords of Draenor's max-level outdoor content) is likely to be tweaked to accommodate feedback. At the end of the day, if you can provide the same kind of content that dailies have in an environment free of the actual daily restriction, then there's no real reason to go with a restrictive daily model.
Then you really need to find something to fill that meaningless void in your life.
You're kind of misusing the skinner box, there. The entire game is a giant skinner box (believe me, this is no secret and never has been) and all of the reward systems share that property. Only some skinner box experiments use variable reward patterns for the subject.
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Dailies alternated between a few preset activities that you'd already have exhausted after a few days anyway. It's easy to call it "variety" on the surface, but the ugly beast beneath was that we were still doing the same things over and over, just randomly alternating them between days and without giving a choice regarding which activity you wanted (with the exception of doing PvP dailies on the isle). You can still implement all of that variety into a Timeless Isle-like zone, which is likely what they'll be doing moving forward. The Warlords of Draenor psuedo-daily zones may be as great a leap as Battlefield: Barrens to the Timeless Isle was. On top of that, we may actually have several places to choose from (if it's anything like typical launch faction dailies) so you might not even be in the same zone from day to day.
Last edited by Eats Compost; 2013-12-02 at 09:52 PM.
This is an interesting thread!
Infracted: Post constructively and stop spamming MMO-C to raise your post count [ML]
Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-12-02 at 11:43 PM.