1. #1

    Need some clarification on our Holy Priest

    Hey guys!

    I need some help with our Holy Priest. I fear she has not understood how to play Holy and want to talk a serious word with her. Problem: I never played Holy in normal or hc raiding and so don´t know for sure how to play a holy. My knowlegde only comes from guides and thinking when what is a good to use spell.

    My general unterstanding as a healer -> almost never stop casting! For Holy I think that means cast your procs and in very low damage phases at least a Renew/Heal/FH (especially for serendipity) on the tank to hold EoL. If damage goes up FH/GH/glyphed BH/PoH and keeping EoL up.

    That´s what I would try to do, I think it´s simple and with T16 4p and almost 19k spirit + spirit trinket from blackfuse it should not make any problems with mana at all.

    - Her char: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ianah/advanced
    - Logs from yesterday: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/04zvl34y3e7e25gs/

    What you could see from the logs, the first 2 Norushen HC tries we 3-healed and enraged with 30mio hp left on him. Then I switched to shadow and almost every pull sucked. In the end I siwtched back to disc and told her to go into dps chakra and do damage. You will see she has not done this very well, but in that first pull Norushen was down. Also I find it strange that no direct healing spell from her is on top of her usage, I expected at least PoH far more healing.
    About her gear, I would go for the ~4,7k Sanc Breakpoint and then Mastery/Crit, throughput gems where possible.

    Am I thinking in the right direction? I raided with another Holy Priest before and we 2-healed almost everything in normal SoO and ToT HC, never had fear that an encounter fails at healing. With him it was a challenge to top meters, now it´s some kind of "I will destroy your heal to the max" and that´s not fun and not going to bring us forward, especially with 2-healing hardmodes.

    Thank you for taking the time an reading this!
    Last edited by tsumeno; 2013-12-02 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Most 10m holy priests like to stack high haste, i never did when i raided 10m, what i do suggest is that she takes from darkness comes light over mindbender, that is way better, sanctuary isn't that great in 10m really i never used it in 10s, don't think she needs that much spirit reforge to mastery i would suggest, i run with 16k spirit and i am now raiding hc 25m.

    Her gemming is all wrong, too much spirit gems, she needs to use int/mastery or int and crit, i prefare to use mastery, spirit mastery and int and spirit gems, i wouldn't use the pom glyph either its not that good.

    If shes going with the haste and renew for 10m then she would be better in serenity for renew to refresh with cascade, hardly any ST healing at all thats kinda bad it's needed in 10m more and fdcl will help with free flash heals, but really she should be using ST healing more and i hardly see any happening from your logs.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by tsumeno View Post
    About her gear, I would go for the ~4,7k Sanc Breakpoint and then Mastery/Crit, throughput gems where possible.
    why would a holy priest go crit gems, if overhealing already is a big issue?
    why go mastery at the point of still low raid-wide dmg, when paired with disc priest, who wont let eol work?

    atm you take too many healers per fight and judge them on which of them was able to snap more healing from the others. go with a proper number of healers and see how it works then.

    if you want to see if your holy priest heals good, you need to let her use her potential to full - ie, let her 2 heal malkorok, 2 heal sha of pride, 2 heal norushen and see if she can stand up to the challenge or no.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by babylon View Post
    if you want to see if your holy priest heals good, you need to let her use her potential to full - ie, let her 2 heal malkorok, 2 heal sha of pride, 2 heal norushen and see if she can stand up to the challenge or no.
    I know how fights are going if we are two healing with her. If one healer dies it feels like healing alone.
    On every single fight, on Malkorok too (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/zf5ry...?s=6505&e=6752), she is miles behind me in numbers. And I know Disc gets better and better when farming content and gearing up, but Malkorok?
    Although her numbers were ok, so far I can tell for an average heal (Norushen pulls with me as Shadow), but the healing was not where it was needed. Additionally I´m very sure that with her gear much more heal is possible. As Kacie said, she is casting as good as nothing where FH/BH and PoH are better placed.
    We did trying two healing ecounter in normal mode a few weeks ago, but this failed on Galakras. Our Shami healed with her. We two heal Garrosh and also there she cannot keep up.

  5. #5
    I've 3 healed fights in 10m mastery stacked as i planned to go back to 25m, and i still did well on healing, that's me healing with a disc and a shaman, now malkorok is a fight where disc performs bad so a disc beating a holy priest there just shouldn't happen at all, halo should be her top heal used.
    Last edited by Kacie; 2013-12-02 at 01:18 PM.

  6. #6
    That hps is so low its unbelievable. You can do 200k+ as a holy priest without being purified just spamming prayer of healing non-stop.

  7. #7
    Don´t get it wrong, on our Norushen kill I told her to dps. Although she didn´t do that complety!

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    <Intent>
    Posts
    639
    Okay, I took the time to analyze her logs and gear.

    Gear:

    She needs to make a choice. A choice other than the one she's making. Is she going to go for low/medium haste (ideally to the 4721 breakpoint for the extra lightspring tick + 2nd renew) and stack int/mastery? Or is she going to the 13k renew breakpoint with int/crit/spir?

    Right now she's gemming wildly for spirit. To a fault. She needs to be gem'ing for more int/valuable throughput secondary. I'd imagine I wouldn't want to see anything more than 15k spirit in her position, and even then, that's a heft cushion of heroic progression with her trinkets.

    She needs to ditch the glyph of PoM. I'll get to why in the logs section.

    She should be taking feathers. With a disc priest in the raid, Body and Soul is kinda stepping on toes and honestly she shouldn't really BE using PW: S in the first place outside of emergencies.

    __________________________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________

    Logs:

    -PoM has a VERY high overheal. I'm seeing her game DI procs and chain cast PoM. She doesn't seem to hold onto it at all, just if it's shiny push it mentality. Explain to her that it's OKAY to hold it for few seconds to await damage. That being said, the PoM glyph is causing severe overheal. Ditch it for Glyphed binding heal or Fade or pretty much anything other than that.

    -She's running oom because if CoH is off CD, she hits it. Without any respect to whether it's the RIGHT spell to be using at the time. What a mana waster. And it's not smart gameplay.

    -She needs to be preemptively casting PoH before incoming damage, rather than reactively. If she know's swelling pride is about to occur in 2s, she should start casting PoH on a group, for example. It helps get the healing out FASTER and more effectively.

    -She needs to make up her mind about Renew. Is she going to take advantage of it or not? The usage is spotty at best. And she isn't taking full advantage of refreshing it in sanc using heal or cascade. In fact, it appears she's primarily using it while in HW: Sanctuary which is a no-no. HW: Serenity is the ideal Chakra for renew usage.

    -That being said she isn't taking FDCL? What gives? FDCL + 2pc = ZOMG YES.

    -AND speaking of HW: Serenity. Does she know to get into Sanctuary and use this spell? It's one of the best tools in a 10M holy priests kit. She needs to be more adaptive with her chakra usage.

    -She needs to track and make better usage of her meta proc.

    And that's a decent start.

  9. #9
    If you're hoping to progress through heroic modes at any sort of decent pace then get rid of her. Although not always obvious until you start looking at logs like Naer has so kindly done - but bad healers like this hold back good guilds.

  10. #10
    In my opinion, she has:

    • Too much haste. She'd be more than ok with just 4721 for Glyphed Renew.
    • Too few crit. Since Renew is extensively used on 10 mans and it doesn't benefit from mastery.
    • Too much mastery.
    • Too much spirit. She doesn't really need that much, shadowfiend + hope go a long way.

    Plus she needs:

    • FCDL.
    • Angelic Feathers (these rock).
    • Twist of Fate (although I agree that DI may prove to be more useful in some bosses).
    • To start using Renew.
    • To start using Cascade along with Serenity.
    • To concern on Chakra swapping.

    However, if we're talking about Norushen (or Malkorok), she should instead go to 25 man style, stacking mastery regardless of crit and haste, using AoE spells, and leave her talents as they are (tho I still prefer ToF over DI). Norushen shouldn't be much of a trouble for her anyway.

  11. #11
    Like some have already pointed out she should go for FDCL and not mindbender, that alone would already increase her output. Also if 2 healing she should consider Twist of Fate in some fights over DI. I'd also advise just for her to reach 4721 haste and not stack any more haste as it seems she doesn't use renew that much anyway and go for mastery in that case since she's just wasting stats otherwise (or change her playstyle for those bosses which require spreading and use renew more aggressively in serenity with cascade). She could also easily drop some spirit, so should replace those pure spirit gems. Yeah and she should change her PoM glyph.

    From the logs where she 2 healed though, she did better than the paladin on the 5 mins try and did reach over 200k hps? Although she could do with using way more POH on Norushen. You did mention it seemed like she wasn't healing the right targets, do you mean like if 1 person dropped lower than the rest? FDCL should make that easier at least with the instant flash heals.

    On Malkorok can she see the colours of the shields? Since you guys are 3 healing most fights, there might be a possibility that she might be getting sniped a lot. On your longest Galakras Hc tries seems she topped healing at least even with 3 healing, so there is potential there but that can depend on who's in the tower group and who's staying down.

    Actually I'm a bit more concerned with your paladin healer? Isn't she/he doing even worse?
    Last edited by Piffnifty; 2013-12-02 at 03:33 PM.

  12. #12
    I'm not a pro at holy, but she's not in Sanctuary Chakra while this is an aoe fight, and it seems she is unable to keep a lightwell up.

    Plus, she used mindbender only 4 times out of a 6 minutes fight (so could have used 2 more times), so if mana was an issue, that is one thing right there.
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest
    Formerly in Razzia Arthas-US (US #6), no new home yet, surprise guild disbands just before xpac are fun!

  13. #13
    As I said, in our kill I told her to do be in dps Chakra and damage the boss since with me healing was not an issue at all and we enraged in the first two pull on 30mio hp left. So on the kill it was intended.

    Thank you for all your responses and analyses, now I have a better idea of playing Holy Priest and looking forward to talk with her today.

  14. #14
    You have two heal wipes where the disparity is more about hpally being nowhere close. While I don't play a holy pally, I heal with one often and the difference isn't nearly as pronounced. Judging by other logs, this is more an issue.

    I'd assume something in strategy is wrong considering the number of enrage kills. When people die early, perhaps healing CDs are structured wrong.

    Simply let her play disc for 10m? I don't see value in playing holy on every fight if disc is an option. Even if the swap player is disc, i would argue double disc is better. For instance, consider the player going disc for 3 healing isn't taking advantage of rapture that consistently so a major bother is not relevant.

  15. #15
    Id be more worried about your shaman than i would about your holy priest. I also think posting here in the way you did is the wrong way to try to get help. You come across as trying to flex your e-peen by going "look at me i outheal the other priest so she must suck."

  16. #16
    I talked to her yesterday and it was successful! Simple things have failed, she didn´t track Lucidity, she didn´t cast FH/BH/GH because of mana cost.We fixed this and now she goes with FDCL and trains to use her 2p.
    We two healed from Galakras to Spoils normal and I had never the feeling I´m healing alone, which wasn´t the case before. I think she´s on a very good way

    Oh and about this
    You come across as trying to flex your e-peen by going "look at me i outheal the other priest so she must suck."
    I´m sorry if it sounds like this, but this is definitely not the case! As you can see there are issues with her healing and I want to help her get rid of it. Nothing to do with epeen but with fear two healing encounters with her and failing because of healing.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    <Intent>
    Posts
    639
    I'm really happy to hear she picked up on the advice with a positive attitude!

    Good luck!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    I'm not a pro at holy, but she's not in Sanctuary Chakra while this is an aoe fight, and it seems she is unable to keep a lightwell up.

    Plus, she used mindbender only 4 times out of a 6 minutes fight (so could have used 2 more times), so if mana was an issue, that is one thing right there.
    if you have the right talents and gear in 10 man with haste stacking there is no need to leave serenity chakra, especially with 2pt16 there is more than enough healing done with 2 stack PoH, spot healing with massive single target heals and renew blanket work better than spamming PoH.

    Holy isnt weak at all, its just that if overhealing a fight the holy will always be on the bottom and due to many fights not having persistant aoe dmg it performs much less effeiciently than any class with an absorb. Think your holy priest needs to practice abit more and drop down to 2 healing all fights on normal, even on hc there is only 2-3 fights max where you would want to 2 heal until your healers are in really good gear.

    As a disc you will always be on top due to how good absorbs are unless your other healers are far better geared ofc then the disc should be close to equal at least.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2013-12-04 at 07:17 PM.

  19. #19
    Holy priest will naturally be low on most fights. That doesn't mean they are not boss. Holy priest healing can really shine when the @$%^ is hitting the fan. Honestly I am suprized she has as much healing as she did with a disc and a mastery stacking Hpally. Personally I am more concerned with your Hpally. They are setup to snipe heals. With such a great assortment of smart heals, they need to be more into INT and crit and get rid of mastery. Mastery is a terrible state for Hpally unless you are trying to top meters.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •