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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    However, in my experience it's not uncommon to be hovering low multiple times in an encounter prior to falling ash, shock pulse etc. Abilities you need to be topped for and use and/or use a DR CD as well. If a healer dies on a sloppy pull or you're underhealing fights it becomes even more crucial to have an extra healing CD to use for events like this.
    How long are you hovering low? If its more than 2 secs, then the problem is not your tier 30 talent choice, its your healers.
    Between barkskin, ursoc, NS if boomkin, symbiosis, (SI if you have it), cookies...you really shouldn't be spending very much time at all so low that you feel you need yet another CD. Check your logs and see how often your renewal is followed immediately by some spike healing that went to overheal...maybe your healers just have slower reaction times.

    Are there certain niche times where Renewal could be useful in pve for dps, yes, - but most of the time for general raiding use, its redundant, and YG is likely better.

    (granted if your healers do have crappy reaction times - then by all means take renewal - all talent choices have to deal with the realities of your specific raid situations--but doesn't mean that applies to everyone else)
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2013-12-09 at 05:42 PM.

  2. #262
    I have to say that a LOT of statements here are true and the whole discussion goes on 'cause there are some good things in both reneval and yseras.

    It was statet multiply times that smart heals are op atm and that is totally right.

    It was statet that there are different viewpoints from spec to spec which is correct.

    It was statet that some player really never need a second healthstone but you have to be careful about listening to that as a way to go. Lappee was/is one of the best owlkins playing a long time ultra hardcore progress. His viewpoint and meaning is correct speaking for himself. But how many guilds have 14/14 hc by now? Why did so many guilds struggle especially in 10men mode where you did not have an insane amont of raidcooldowns? Its because a LOT of players made mistakes in there trys to execute a boss.

    Yeah its right. Ysera is the clear winner if everything goes as planned. Then each smartheal (regardless how low it is) is better in ogrimmar cause dmg spikes are rare.

    I dont know how good you guys are and if a new owlkin should be taking ysera 'cause he or she MUST play correct in every situation or he or she should reroll instantly - naah enough if that sarcasm. I respect all of that guys stating that there passive forget-spell is op and its true ofc.

    I play 10 men and we are 11/14 hc atm. My tree druid friend has ysera and thinks like most of the people writing here. But everytime he dies cause of a mistake i think to myself: wouldnt happen with renev :-)

    If i have to advice a new owlkin which one to take i would say: forget cw cause its on gcd and like ns+ht its bullshit cause one gcd is difference between living and dieing. I never use ns on me. I fire it on people getting HUGE spikes cause my raid is not as good as Lappee... >.< Learn to love your healthstone, barkskin and renev cause they are off the gcd and can be used INSTANT which made them best for "most human beeing" :-)

    If you or your raid dont get spikes at all switch to ysera.

    That can be depent on the encounter aswell. On thok hc there are no spikes at all. On nazgrim hc there are a LOT if your team made some mistakes in execution :-)

    Just my opinion.

    And yeah cw might be good as well but from a dmg perspective? Meeeh.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Once again, renewal is off the gcd, just as "free" as ysera's gift. Idk what content everyone is on and I haven't raided in your guild(s) so maybe you have amazing healers that always keep you close to topped. If this was my experience I'd be leaning toward YG as well.
    No that is exactly when you should not use YG. The time in between raid damaging abilities such as swelling pride is a non-issue to heal, in which case YG only heals what the healers would have done anyways (with no additional mana cost if that is an issue). The main point of CW is healing up that hard hitting Shock blast before the healers even need to target you.
    YG is for if you are on a fight where someone is always low and spike damage is less problematic (or when damage is too unpredictable for CW).

    That is again from a feral PoV where there is little downside to taking CW, as we already take 20% increased healing and have LotP to allow us to never get in danger on low damage fights. As a balance or resto druid I agree that the talent point is better spent on YG mostly. CW just isn't an oh-shit cooldown, it's used for pre-planning.

    EDIT: @whitestrife nailed it with his explanation of YG or not.
    Last edited by Karlzone; 2013-12-09 at 04:48 PM.

  4. #264
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    I think the discussion needs to be split into completely separate discussions for healing, DPS and tanking. Now it's just confusion, with half the posts never clarifying what they talk about.

    It should be pretty clear that as a healer, Renewal and Cenarion Ward are both largely useless. Using Cenarion Ward is better than just standing there while YG ticks, but realistically you'd use Rejuvenation instead in that situation and Rejuv+YG will do more good than CW. Renewal is mostly useless as a healer on pretty much every fight, since you have a whole arsenal of instant heals anyway. Ysera's Gift may not be great, but it's okay and that's more than can be said for Renewal and CW.
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  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    I think the discussion needs to be split into completely separate discussions for healing, DPS and tanking. Now it's just confusion, with half the posts never clarifying what they talk about.

    It should be pretty clear that as a healer, Renewal and Cenarion Ward are both largely useless. Using Cenarion Ward is better than just standing there while YG ticks, but realistically you'd use Rejuvenation instead in that situation and Rejuv+YG will do more good than CW. Renewal is mostly useless as a healer on pretty much every fight, since you have a whole arsenal of instant heals anyway. Ysera's Gift may not be great, but it's okay and that's more than can be said for Renewal and CW.
    It's almost as if the new talents only give the illusion of choice when really they are tailored for specific specs...
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  6. #266
    A heal that passively occurs so I don't have to think about it. Sounds good to me!
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  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    I play 10 men and we are 11/14 hc atm. My tree druid friend has ysera and thinks like most of the people writing here. But everytime he dies cause of a mistake i think to myself: wouldnt happen with renev :-)
    I'm curious as to what situations these are: as a healer one should never die outside of damage greater than one's maximum health or someone (possibly them) fucking up to the point that they've wiped the raid and thus making renewal meaningless. Using Spoils of Pandaria Heroic as an example; if your group kills the stone statues spawned by the Mogu Massive too slow you will wipe simply because the raid will take damage that is unhealable. Renewal would not have made a difference.

    Also, Renewal only gives you 30% of your maximum life; if the burst would hit you for more than x+30% it wouldn't have mattered if you used Renewal or not.

    If i have to advice a new owlkin which one to take i would say: forget cw cause its on gcd and like ns+ht its bullshit cause one gcd is difference between living and dieing. I never use NS on me. I fire it on people getting HUGE spikes cause my raid is not as good as Lappee... >.< Learn to love your healthstone, barkskin and renew cause they are off the gcd and can be used INSTANT which made them best for "most players" :-)
    Not bad advice for a new player. In addition to this I would suggest that one develop situational awareness so as to minimize the chance of making a mistake. While mistakes do happen you shouldn't build your plans based off making said mistake.

    If you or your raid dont get spikes at all switch to ysera.

    That can be dependent on the encounter as well. On thok hc there are no spikes at all. On nazgrim hc there are a LOT if your team made some mistakes in execution :-)

    Just my opinion.

    And yeah cw might be good as well but from a dmg perspective? Meeeh.
    Bolded the most important part of this; in a case like this none of the T30 talents would have saved you. Better raid awareness though would have.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Well, no it's not. You still need class balance or bosses won't die. Should you reroll a lock if your guild has an excess of druids and few warlocks? Probably would be beneficial.

    Min/maxing minor details like professions and t30 talents is interesting and somewhat important, but not comparable to that analogy. Learning the best proffessions only takes a couple hours as well... Small price to pay for a few thousand dps

    Once again, renewal is off the gcd, just as "free" as ysera's gift. Idk what content everyone is on and I haven't raided in your guild(s) so maybe you have amazing healers that always keep you close to topped. If this was my experience I'd be leaning toward YG as well.

    However, in my experience it's not uncommon to be hovering low multiple times in an encounter prior to falling ash, shock pulse etc. Abilities you need to be topped for and use and/or use a DR CD as well. If a healer dies on a sloppy pull or you're underhealing fights it becomes even more crucial to have an extra healing CD to use for events like this.

    healthstone is great, but only 20% of your hp, NS is rng depending on trinket procs/crit. I've had it hit for over 1million with HoTW up, and as low as 200-250k. Like I've said before, sometimes, no, the other baseline healing cds are not enough and I'd rather be safe than out of cds and I am using them conservatively already.

    Well the only reason to argue things is at the highest level of play, where skill is relatively similar across guilds. At lower levels skill varies too much, people stand in too much, and you may have one healering carrying the other 4-5. As a resto druid in the 24th best 25 man currently (and ranked in the top 10 resto druids in the world according to proraiders) YG beats renewal for resto hands down. I often never even health stone. And for CW i'd rather Rej where the over healing adds to bloom and i can swiftmend off it.

  9. #269
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levatio View Post
    I'll have to disagree, ward is far better in my opinion for a druid tank.

    And what exactly do you base this on? What is your experience? Cause what you're saying, isn't really valid, when we have no idea at what level you raid tbh. Sure, maybe CW is better for a Guardian when soloing or doing LFR, but it sure as hell ain't better when doing Heroic raiding.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Well, no it's not. You still need class balance or bosses won't die. Should you reroll a lock if your guild has an excess of druids and few warlocks? Probably would be beneficial.

    Min/maxing minor details like professions and t30 talents is interesting and somewhat important, but not comparable to that analogy. Learning the best proffessions only takes a couple hours as well... Small price to pay for a few thousand dps

    Once again, renewal is off the gcd, just as "free" as ysera's gift. Idk what content everyone is on and I haven't raided in your guild(s) so maybe you have amazing healers that always keep you close to topped. If this was my experience I'd be leaning toward YG as well.

    However, in my experience it's not uncommon to be hovering low multiple times in an encounter prior to falling ash, shock pulse etc. Abilities you need to be topped for and use and/or use a DR CD as well. If a healer dies on a sloppy pull or you're underhealing fights it becomes even more crucial to have an extra healing CD to use for events like this.

    healthstone is great, but only 20% of your hp, NS is rng depending on trinket procs/crit. I've had it hit for over 1million with HoTW up, and as low as 200-250k. Like I've said before, sometimes, no, the other baseline healing cds are not enough and I'd rather be safe than out of cds and I am using them conservatively already.

    Sounds like that's an issue with your raid's awareness and or lack of healing. As many people have told you several times now - both Boomkins, Resto, Guardians and a few Ferals - you are quite simply wrong. The people who've been replying to you, have already told you why. You have 14/14 Heroic people telling you, why they don't pick CW or Renewal over YG, yet you're still arguing the same things over and over again......

  10. #270
    @ Trubo:

    a good example in which my tree buddy has problems is nazgrim hc. From our 10 men perspective he gets often focused by the hunter and then trys to reach the safe zone. As long as he moves he has no possibility to hardcast a regrowth. If his NS is on cd he trys to survive incoming dmg with genesis rejus, which wont work if the mage casts a arcanblast and nazgrim jumps to him. You can argue now that the hunter should be stunned, the mage should be silenced or stunned and the jump-dmg alone is not dangerous enough - which is by all means true. But well - what should i say: shit happens. Myb some of you know situations like this from there own exp. I love my guild and as long as we have some tools to press to survive an situation like this - we can kill the boss and get our loot. Ysera in that spoken example would laught at you while you are dying. Ofc after the wipe you can parse the log and you will then see that ysera has healed a few million (which is very low but anyway more then renev) but its a wipe - so what?

    That is just an example of my own exp. There are a lot of contra arguments like: your paladin could cast lay on hands, I could cast ns+ht and so on. Thats true. But my own opinion is that each player realizes his healthbar even faster then the healers if they drop low and renev is like healthstone the fastest way to get back to the safe zone of your health. Besides the realization the healers have a loot of heals in there toolkit, but not many instants... if someone drops under one second you cannot do much to them as a healer and if you can you have then cd on that instant.

    Why did so many people love there healthstone? Because it safes there lives multipli times. Somebody myb say now that they never ever use a hs at all and they never die in og which is cool. Then take ysera by all means - ofc! If you are like me like someone wrote in this threat a bit panicly and you want to be your own judge if you die or life as a range dd - then renev > ysera.

    Its a question of taste in my opinion. Like most talents. Which is how blizz intendet it.
    Last edited by Whitestrife; 2013-12-10 at 06:42 AM.

  11. #271
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    a good example in which my tree buddy has problems is nazgrim hc. From our 10 men perspective he gets often focused by the hunter and then trys to reach the safe zone. As long as he moves he has no possibility to hardcast a regrowth. If his NS is on cd he trys to survive incoming dmg with genesis rejus, which wont work if the mage casts a arcanblast and nazgrim jumps to him. You can argue now that the hunter should be stunned, the mage should be silenced or stunned and the jump-dmg alone is not dangerous enough - which is by all means true. But well - what should i say: shit happens. Myb some of you know situations like this from there own exp. I love my guild and as long as we have some tools to press to survive an situation like this - we can kill the boss and get our loot. Ysera in that spoken example would laught at you while you are dying. Ofc after the wipe you can parse the log and you will then see that ysera has healed a few million (which is very low but anyway more then renev) but its a wipe - so what?
    You can't only look at the five seconds leading up to a potential death, though. The point of YG is to deal with steady damage and stabilize the raid so you won't have to use NS all the time. It's entirely possible that the reason NS was on cooldown in the first place was because he was specced for Renewal. Unless people are at full health and take two big hits in a row that kill them (which shouldn't really happen on any fight), it's not lack of quick healing between those hits that kills them - it's the fact that they weren't at high enough health before the first hit. Ysera's Gift may not help much in an emergency, but it helps prevent those emergencies in the first place.

    Either way, he should be using Displacer Beast and it shouldn't be an issue to begin with.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  12. #272
    Ysera's reduces the amount of mana you need to spend, and you really don't need the whole raid at 100% hp. If you are topping the raid off CW will be equally useless and I can't swiftmend off of CW. I don't think I'd use CW in any spec. Renewal is useful on low damage fights with big burst phases for dps, I could just bank my dream of cenarius procs as feral though and moonkins can heal themselves. I feel like as a tank I'd almost always take YG for the constant healing stream and use my other CDs to mitigate incoming damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    @ Trubo:

    a good example in which my tree buddy has problems is nazgrim hc. From our 10 men perspective he gets often focused by the hunter and then trys to reach the safe zone. As long as he moves he has no possibility to hardcast a regrowth. If his NS is on cd he trys to survive incoming dmg with genesis rejus, which wont work if the mage casts a arcanblast and nazgrim jumps to him. You can argue now that the hunter should be stunned, the mage should be silenced or stunned and the jump-dmg alone is not dangerous enough - which is by all means true. But well - what should i say: shit happens. Myb some of you know situations like this from there own exp. I love my guild and as long as we have some tools to press to survive an situation like this - we can kill the boss and get our loot. Ysera in that spoken example would laught at you while you are dying. Ofc after the wipe you can parse the log and you will then see that ysera has healed a few million (which is very low but anyway more then renev) but its a wipe - so what?.
    Ok, lets look at the resto druid instant cast arsenal that he could be using whilst running.
    -Swiftmend
    -2 Piece, HT
    -NS, HT
    -Barkskin
    -Ironbark
    -Mushroom Bloom
    -Tree Form: Regrowth (if specced of course)

    Your druid has SO SO many spells he can use in combination to keep himself up, not to mention rolling lifebloom/rejuv, as there is only a minor mana downside to changing lifebloom target.

    Ysera's over the course of a fight will have saved me enough mana to use that regrowth on myself if need be.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    @ Trubo:

    a good example in which my tree buddy has problems is nazgrim hc. From our 10 men perspective he gets often focused by the hunter and then trys to reach the safe zone. As long as he moves he has no possibility to hardcast a regrowth.
    Sounds to me that your healer friend needs to be more aware of where they're standing and when the next add wave spawns. There's no reason they can't be near a wall to anticipate getting picked by the sniper nor being able to handle the add for 10-15 seconds via Mighty Bash or Typhoon. Plus, assuming they have T16 2 set they probably have a fairly hefty stacked HT ready to use in addition to NS+HT/RG, Barkskin, Ironbark and MoU+HS.

    If his NS is on cd he trys to survive incoming dmg with genesis rejus
    Um, Genesis is worthless for that situation; the time it takes to account for GCD refreshing they could have simply Regrowthed and gotten a LS or the HoT running (depending on whether they glyph or not). Also, why isn't this person running 3x Lifebloom immediately after getting picked by the sniper nor standing in their Mushroom Efflorescence?

    which wont work if the mage casts a arcanblast and nazgrim jumps to him.
    And how is Renewal supposed to help when you get shit on by three different things within a second or two? Granted depending on how far away Nazgrim is it's possible to move out of both his Leap and Aftershock. Still, Renewal doesn't heal enough to prevent death from the damage you just described assuming the Sniper is still alive.

    You can argue now that the hunter should be stunned, the mage should be silenced or stunned and the jump-dmg alone is not dangerous enough - which is by all means true. But well - what should i say: shit happens.
    It does but that's not the fault of your healer friend; that's the fault of people in charge of adds not controlling them properly.

    Myb some of you know situations like this from there own exp. I love my guild and as long as we have some tools to press to survive an situation like this - we can kill the boss and get our loot. Ysera in that spoken example would laught at you while you are dying. Ofc after the wipe you can parse the log and you will then see that ysera has healed a few million (which is very low but anyway more then renev) but its a wipe - so what?
    You're discounting the usefulness it had in healing you/others most likely affected by Bonecrusher and assuming that Renewal would prevent death during insane damage burst.

    That is just an example of my own exp. There are a lot of contra arguments like: your paladin could cast lay on hands, I could cast ns+ht and so on. Thats true. But my own opinion is that each player realizes his healthbar even faster then the healers if they drop low and renev is like healthstone the fastest way to get back to the safe zone of your health. Besides the realization the healers have a loot of heals in there toolkit, but not many instants... if someone drops under one second you cannot do much to them as a healer and if you can you have then cd on that instant.
    Nothing really to say against other than why are you routinely dipping so low that you need Renewal to survive? Sounds to me more of a lack of raid awareness or bad healers. Fights are pretty well known within the first few weeks of a new raid tier so people that bother to do research should know the big burst personal/raid damage spikes and can plan around them accordingly.

    Why did so many people love there healthstone? Because it safes there lives multipli times.
    Assuming that using it prevents you from dying to the next hit(s) taken before being healed. Better than nothing so props to you if you actually use them.

    Somebody myb say now that they never ever use a hs at all and they never die in og which is cool. Then take ysera by all means - ofc! If you are like me like someone wrote in this threat a bit panicly and you want to be your own judge if you die or life as a range dd - then renev > ysera.

    Its a question of taste in my opinion. Like most talents. Which is how blizz intendet it.
    I agree with your last statement about it being preferential more than anything; outside of dps roles I would never take Renewal/CW over YG and the times I would use Renewal/CW as a dps are fairly limited (Siegecrafter Heroic mostly).
    Last edited by Trubo; 2013-12-10 at 08:23 AM.

  14. #274
    And how is Renewal supposed to help when you get shit on by three different things within a second or two? Granted depending on how far away Nazgrim is it's possible to move out of both his Leap and Aftershock. Still, Renewal doesn't heal enough to prevent death from the damage you just described assuming the Sniper is still alive.
    With gs 570+, as tauren and with a resto shamy we are by around 800k+ infight. All attacks that can be mitigated or avoided and are not raidwide are roughly around 300k in og. So i guess blizz wants us to lose around 40%~ of our current live in that situation for each hit that you eat. I dont want to blame my tree-friend by the way - ofc not he alone, we as a team failed in that case. But anyhow its just an example on how it can go. I starting to feel like i am the only one here wiping with his raid on bosses on personal progress ... :-( ofc we killed nazgrim this week in the first try but thats not everytime the case. Juggernaut is an other example of heavy spikes if something went wrong. It should nkt happen but well - it happens.

    What i was trying to say is: i believe that blizz has following strategy in mind: if you get 3 avoidable or mitigateable attacks in a quick sequence you will lose roughly 120% of your life and die in that process if you not respond quickly with a renev or someone else quickly (free from gcd preferably) reacts with a heal. Thats my personal feeling about the hits i get in og as a moonkin. Myb its wrong to reflect that guess to feral, tank or tree due to the different DRs they have but for Boomkins it should be the right direction.

    So for me its a other way to safe my ass if i or the raid has done something wrong.

    What comes to my mind right now as a good example are the little orbs that appear direct under my fat boomy-ass on the malkoroc-encounter. If it happens that i eat one i loose my debuff an weak auras screams like a bitch which alerts me that i have to instantly heal myself to not lose any hp at all. So i use Healthstone for the first orb, Renev for the second, Ns+ht for the thirt (in this order because ns+ht is a dmg lose and i shouldnt eat 3 orbs at all) and can eat the pools anyway if they appear in my surface with barkskin or/and unending resolve. The fight lasts roughly around 5 minutes in our raid so in the time i eat a forth orb i get healthstone back from cd.

    Again: i dont want to say ysera is bad or wrong or renev is better. I just find it better for myself and try to explain why.

  15. #275
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    Simply baffled by my fellow druid community. They gave the trees NS and let us have a FREE, PASSIVE, SMART heal in it place that ticks every 5 seconds (which leaves the smallest region of error as far overhealing of that tier) and people are actually griping about it. From what I can tell the healers and tanks aren't complaining about it, personally as a moonkin (half the time) the only health meter I'm usually looking at is the bosses' and/or my own. Can't really talk for the cats. The fact that they made it a smart heal that trinkles over onto other people instead of simply turning into overhealing for the druid is just gravy. Sorry that I sound a bit grouchy myself but it's like they handed us a present and there are people really complaining it's not big enough. My point is: on the tree side of things, I got to keep my NS so why would I want another cd to mess around with when I can take a passive heal that shows up decently well on the meters? People complaining need to remember that it is only USELESS in a very niche environment.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    With gs 570+, as tauren and with a resto shamy we are by around 800k+ infight. All attacks that can be mitigated or avoided and are not raidwide are roughly around 300k in og. So i guess blizz wants us to lose around 40%~ of our current live in that situation for each hit that you eat. I dont want to blame my tree-friend by the way - ofc not he alone, we as a team failed in that case. But anyhow its just an example on how it can go. I starting to feel like i am the only one here wiping with his raid on bosses on personal progress ... :-( ofc we killed nazgrim this week in the first try but thats not everytime the case. Juggernaut is an other example of heavy spikes if something went wrong. It should nkt happen but well - it happens.

    What i was trying to say is: i believe that blizz has following strategy in mind: if you get 3 avoidable or mitigateable attacks in a quick sequence you will lose roughly 120% of your life and die in that process if you not respond quickly with a renev or someone else quickly (free from gcd preferably) reacts with a heal. Thats my personal feeling about the hits i get in og as a moonkin. Myb its wrong to reflect that guess to feral, tank or tree due to the different DRs they have but for Boomkins it should be the right direction.

    So for me its a other way to safe my ass if i or the raid has done something wrong.

    What comes to my mind right now as a good example are the little orbs that appear direct under my fat boomy-ass on the malkoroc-encounter. If it happens that i eat one i loose my debuff an weak auras screams like a bitch which alerts me that i have to instantly heal myself to not lose any hp at all. So i use Healthstone for the first orb, Renev for the second, Ns+ht for the thirt (in this order because ns+ht is a dmg lose and i shouldnt eat 3 orbs at all) and can eat the pools anyway if they appear in my surface with barkskin or/and unending resolve. The fight lasts roughly around 5 minutes in our raid so in the time i eat a forth orb i get healthstone back from cd.

    Again: i dont want to say ysera is bad or wrong or renev is better. I just find it better for myself and try to explain why.
    I wasn't trying to imply that you're wrong and I'm right. I disagree with you on how valuable Renewal is overall for all specs in that even with fairly fast reflexes you can die before getting Renewal off, making the talent worse than YG in that no healing was done. Certainly there are niches where it can be useful but to me those are so few and far between that it's not really worth the effort to plan around that one bad case when you have a talent that works in all cases.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Checksmix View Post
    Well the only reason to argue things is at the highest level of play, where skill is relatively similar across guilds. At lower levels skill varies too much, people stand in too much, and you may have one healering carrying the other 4-5. As a resto druid in the 24th best 25 man currently (and ranked in the top 10 resto druids in the world according to proraiders) YG beats renewal for resto hands down. I often never even health stone. And for CW i'd rather Rej where the over healing adds to bloom and i can swiftmend off it.
    If you need to spam lots of Rejuvs that's fine, but if you know that one person is going to take or is currently taking intense damage a combination of Rejuv, CW, and Regrowths is probably better and more mana-efficient than just spamming Regrowth on them. If NS was baseline and YG was available in ToT, Council of Elders is an example of a fight where I'd probably take CW because general raid damage only occurs for about half the fight and one of the highest risks of death is Frostbite, when Malak is empowered and there isn't much raid damage.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Geolock View Post
    Simply baffled by my fellow druid community. They gave the trees NS and let us have a FREE, PASSIVE, SMART heal in it place that ticks every 5 seconds (which leaves the smallest region of error as far overhealing of that tier) and people are actually griping about it. From what I can tell the healers and tanks aren't complaining about it, personally as a moonkin (half the time) the only health meter I'm usually looking at is the bosses' and/or my own. Can't really talk for the cats. The fact that they made it a smart heal that trinkles over onto other people instead of simply turning into overhealing for the druid is just gravy. Sorry that I sound a bit grouchy myself but it's like they handed us a present and there are people really complaining it's not big enough. My point is: on the tree side of things, I got to keep my NS so why would I want another cd to mess around with when I can take a passive heal that shows up decently well on the meters? People complaining need to remember that it is only USELESS in a very niche environment.
    It's not completely useless, YG has its niche uses for some fights where you don't require the extra CD's. However, I feel either CW/Renewal will serve me better on most other fights. I tend to value burst healing capabilities higher over HoTs as a dps mainly because I think staying alive is more of a personal responsibility.
    Mew!

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennoyer View Post
    If you need to spam lots of Rejuvs that's fine, but if you know that one person is going to take or is currently taking intense damage a combination of Rejuv, CW, and Regrowths is probably better and more mana-efficient than just spamming Regrowth on them. If NS was baseline and YG was available in ToT, Council of Elders is an example of a fight where I'd probably take CW because general raid damage only occurs for about half the fight and one of the highest risks of death is Frostbite, when Malak is empowered and there isn't much raid damage.
    I would rather take YG if I want to save mana. The heal provided by YG will save you more mana.
    And for frostbite if you are in 25man the CW will mostly be overheal, in 10man you will spam regrowth anyways.
    Last edited by insanedruid; 2013-12-11 at 05:45 AM.

  20. #280
    I've posted my reasoning quite a few times now, but I'll give it another try since a few people doesn't quite seem to understand how most of us reason when it comes to those talents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennoyer View Post
    but if you know that one person is going to take or is currently taking intense damage a combination of Rejuv, CW, and Regrowths is probably better and more mana-efficient than just spamming Regrowth on them.
    Yes, 2 healing spells + CW would be better than just spamming regrowth. But that's very far from a valid and realistic comparison imo. Because no druid would ever stop using hots and cds and resort to just regrowth spamming. In that case its more of a l2p issue.

    If I was in that scenario I would most likely start off with rejuv+swiftmend and if that wasn't enough, throw an ironbark or whatever on the fella unless he is wise enough to use a CD of his own. If he still would need more healing, then perhaps a regrowth would be needed. Sure you could switch out any default spell and use CW instead, but that would have two big setbacks:

    1. I would loose a smart hot with 100% uptime.
    2. High risk of overhealing: After 6 sec when the last 33% of CW heals, in most cases he's most likely dead or at full hp by that time. So even when using CW in that specific situation, it's very likely that 33% is overhealing, and not too unlikely that 66% is overhealing. This is why I would prefer to use any of all my default spells long before CW.

    In my opinion we have much better options at our disposal already, making the cost of loosing YG for another defensive CD too high. The need for CW in that narrow situation is not big at all, the fact that most druids are very fine without it is proof enough. Sure CW might be useful in some spec for some situation, but for resto pve?
    I would not take it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirri View Post
    YG has its niche uses for some fights where you don't require the extra CD's.
    I disagree, YG is usefull all the time, it´s a smart heal with 100% uptime, not the same as "it has it's niche uses".
    And as a dps I have never felt I couldn't get through a fight because of lack of defensive CDs.

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