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  1. #281
    Sorry to add more clutter to the conversation at this point, but the reason Renewal is so much more potent than YG or even NS is that if your reaction times are rather quick you can Renewal and healthstone as well if you need it while still on global cooldown whereas you cannot NS, saving you from things like a missed interrupt there that glurpy died to.

    5sec to wait for a 30k heal when ur gonna die

  2. #282
    So it took you 15 pages to conclude that all 3 talents have their niches with YG being the most universal as it is passive and smart heal?

    Didn't we already know that?

  3. #283
    I used Renewal before Ysera's was available, the cooldown is too long to be worthwhile.

  4. #284
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Sorry to add more clutter to the conversation at this point, but the reason Renewal is so much more potent than YG or even NS is that if your reaction times are rather quick you can Renewal and healthstone as well if you need it while still on global cooldown whereas you cannot NS, saving you from things like a missed interrupt there that glurpy died to.

    5sec to wait for a 30k heal when ur gonna die
    Are you really still trying to argue against everyone playing a Druid? If you're in that much danger of dying, you should look at your healers or stop standing fire. It's amazing that you keep arguing the same nonsense over and over and I think it's quite clear, that people do not agree with you.

    But keep using w/e, won't make a difference to the rest of us anyways. Just don't claim that you actually know for a fact, which is better, cause clearly you don't.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishpsycho View Post
    Are you really still trying to argue against everyone playing a Druid? If you're in that much danger of dying, you should look at your healers or stop standing fire. It's amazing that you keep arguing the same nonsense over and over and I think it's quite clear, that people do not agree with you.

    But keep using w/e, won't make a difference to the rest of us anyways. Just don't claim that you actually know for a fact, which is better, cause clearly you don't.
    Sorry, but some people actually think about the decisions they make rather than just assuming something is better because "everyone is using it". The tier is small in the grand scheme of things , but it's interesting to thing about regardless and the impact that the talent actually has.

    I could care less whether you think I am right or wrong or if you cleared 14/14 hc iirc? (fyi no one cares you outgear by 20ilvls anyway). I also doubt you've gone into raids and played with all 3 talents to get a feel for it or even looked at logs. The truth of the matter is you don't care and only offer the support of "but mom, everyone else is using it". To top it all off, I've clarified multiple times my PoV is resto/dps, not tank anyway so I took your word for it several pages ago and assumed you knew what you're talking about for now until another guardian offered different feedback. So continue to be condescending when I'm not even directing a point at you to begin with.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishpsycho View Post
    Are you really still trying to argue against everyone playing a Druid? If you're in that much danger of dying, you should look at your healers or stop standing fire. It's amazing that you keep arguing the same nonsense over and over and I think it's quite clear, that people do not agree with you.

    But keep using w/e, won't make a difference to the rest of us anyways. Just don't claim that you actually know for a fact, which is better, cause clearly you don't.
    This is a pretty terrible argument. I prefer Renewal :-)

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    This is a pretty terrible argument. I prefer Renewal :-)
    well it rly depends on what kind of druid u play xD if its from a guardian standpoint I can see its usefull incase u get a sudden big hit or messed up a rotation of a dodge or dmg reduc cd.... and for a feral as well since u are standing place near the add... but for boomkin and healzor I see it rly useful xD since the only time u should get a big hit on u will be on AoE from bosses or single target stuff.... but the healers should make up for that otherwise u properly have a healthstone.... I would say that YG would be better for the casters since ofc u will get hit randomly from some abilities but YG should be able 2 a little healing there and the healers should do the rest.... and when u dont take dmg the YG healing heals someone else.....

  8. #288
    So, to summarize this thread:

    1. Fappasaurus starts a QQ thread stating that yseras gift is useless healing. Not encouraging a discussion nor asking a question.
    2. People try, for 15 pages, to explain to him why most druids run with YG, and they do so while providing facts and/or numbers - actual proof.
    3. Fappasaurus keeps spamming his gibberish in response to every post, and is mocking anyone who disagree with him. Making all good posts who actually discuss interesting things, drown in spam.

    Don't create a thread if you're not willing to be open minded and discuss the subject. On top of that all you do is spam nonsense and insult people. How about if you actually read what everyone has been posting for 15 pages? Because you still haven't fully understood how the talent works, you basically prove your own reasoning wrong every single time you spam your crap. Your reasoning has been taken apart more than once or twice in here.

    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    5sec to wait for a 30k heal when ur gonna die
    Are you really that stupid? If you expect Yseras Gift to be a life saver spell, like lay on hands/death pact/cauterize or something in that nature, then you don't even qualify to discuss the talents at all tbh, even if you where that open minded. It's not intended to save your life when you are about to die. Read the tool tip, 1000 more times.

    Someone needs to put an end to both his thread/monolog and account imo...

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Naelwen View Post
    So, to summarize this thread:

    1. Fappasaurus starts a QQ thread stating that yseras gift is useless healing. Not encouraging a discussion nor asking a question.
    2. People try, for 15 pages, to explain to him why most druids run with YG, and they do so while providing facts and/or numbers - actual proof.
    3. Fappasaurus keeps spamming his gibberish in response to every post, and is mocking anyone who disagree with him. Making all good posts who actually discuss interesting things, drown in spam.

    Don't create a thread if you're not willing to be open minded and discuss the subject. On top of that all you do is spam nonsense and insult people. How about if you actually read what everyone has been posting for 15 pages? Because you still haven't fully understood how the talent works, you basically prove your own reasoning wrong every single time you spam your crap. Your reasoning has been taken apart more than once or twice in here.

    Someone needs to put an end to both his thread/monolog and account imo...
    If you think I am the one that needs to be open-minded you're the one that didn't read my posts or the thread. Nothing is "spammed" or gibberish gibberish just because you disagree with it. If they closed every someone disagreed with they wouldn't have a website.


    Are you really that stupid? If you expect Yseras Gift to be a life saver spell, like lay on hands/death pact/cauterize or something in that nature, then you don't even qualify to discuss the talents at all tbh, even if you where that open minded. It's not intended to save your life when you are about to die. Read the tool tip, 1000 more times.
    I'm sorry you don't understand that the other talents outside of Ysera's in the same tier can do this. That's the point. More impact during the hardest parts of an encounter damage-wise. If you unspecced Ysera's today your healers would notice no change, that's how menial the healing is, but don't continue to insult me and my talent choices if you're not willing to even try the alternatives.

  10. #290
    I'll give this up since this is obviously completely meaningless, but I just want to clarify one last thing.

    The only one who actually ever said anything about peoples talent choices in here where you, when you stated that everyone who used YG was either lazy, or couldn't handle more keybinds.

    And no, I'm not the one who doesn't understand the talents or needs to be more open minded. -I'm not the one having 15 pages of people telling me the same thing over and over again...

  11. #291
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Sorry to add more clutter to the conversation at this point, but the reason Renewal is so much more potent than YG or even NS is that if your reaction times are rather quick you can Renewal and healthstone as well if you need it while still on global cooldown whereas you cannot NS, saving you from things like a missed interrupt there that glurpy died to.
    The situation where you take one big hit and then take another big hit again with enough time for you to react and press a button but not enough time for the GCD you're on to end and the damage is such that the two hits together deal more than 120% of your health (so they're fatal without a heal and a healthstone) but less than 150% of your health (so Renewal is enough to save you) is... well, does that ever really happen? Once every few months, maybe? That's a pretty narrow window both in timing and in damage taken, and unless both conditions are met then Renewal didn't actually save you - you'd either have been fine anyway or Renewal wouldn't have helped.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    The situation where you take one big hit and then take another big hit again with enough time for you to react and press a button but not enough time for the GCD you're on to end and the damage is such that the two hits together deal more than 120% of your health (so they're fatal without a heal and a healthstone) but less than 150% of your health (so Renewal is enough to save you) is... well, does that ever really happen? Once every few months, maybe? That's a pretty narrow window both in timing and in damage taken, and unless both conditions are met then Renewal didn't actually save you - you'd either have been fine anyway or Renewal wouldn't have helped.
    This is exactly why I know that people aren't even bothering to test the talent and just post to be argumentative (I've raided w/ all 3 in different specs). Renewal is both off the global and does not consume a global. I've already mentioned this previously. On this very page. It's a "free" heal - no dps loss. You can react the millisecond you dip dangerously low.

  13. #293
    You didn't understand his point. He is well aware that Renewal is off GCD, which is clear in his post. Try re-reading it.

    He is saying how often does the situation occur where you need the OFF GCD heal from renewal, as opposed to letting your GCD finish and casting a rejuv or something else, AND that wouldn't be solved otherwise by only using a healthstone.

    And if you bring up the healthstone CD, then thats back to a healers problem or failing at mechanics somehow, because they shouldn't be happening so often you need another stone on a seperate CD (which is basically all renewal is). Once in a blue moon, sure. Every raid night? no...theres something wrong there, either bad healers or bad raid awareness/general fail. If thats the case for your raid - then have a it, Renewal is better for your raid situation. For others, its not worth it and YG works better for them.

    (Caveat: certain encounters during progression may very well benefit from Renewal. None really do this tier (at least not at this point.) Renewal can serve a purpose; but most of the time it's just redunant and unnessecary compared to passive smart heals.)
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2013-12-12 at 08:08 PM.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    And if you bring up the healthstone CD, then thats back to a healers problem or failing at mechanics somehow, because they shouldn't be happening so often you need another stone on a seperate CD (which is basically all renewal is).
    That goes both ways: If your healers need you(dps perspective) YG to keep the raid up then maybe you should look at what the hell your healers are doing.
    Mana is not a problem for healers. Slow ticking raid damage is not a problem for healers. What makes healing challenging is to prepare for burst properly or handling random spikes.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    That goes both ways: If your healers need you(dps perspective) YG to keep the raid up then maybe you should look at what the hell your healers are doing.
    Mana is not a problem for healers. Slow ticking raid damage is not a problem for healers. What makes healing challenging is to prepare for burst properly or handling random spikes.
    This is like saying hot is not useful. If slow ticking raid damage is not a problem for healers,
    the only spell resto druid should use is regrowth as it's the only spell that provides burst healing.

    And mana is always a problem for healer. If they have excessive mana regeneration, they can reforge spirit to throughput stats.

    HOT/YG smooths the damage and makes burst damage easier to heal.
    No healers don't need YG to keep the raid up, but YG will make healing easier(more or less).

    On the other hand, if you always have healthstone up, your renewal is plain useless.
    Last edited by insanedruid; 2013-12-13 at 10:00 AM.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by insanedruid View Post
    On the other hand, if you always have healthstone up, your renewal is plain useless.
    not if u are in a situation where u need both :P but ye u are right in that YG is more relevant for resto...

  17. #297
    Renewal: maximum 0.25% hp/sec.
    Ysera's Gift: Maximum 1% hp/sec
    I play a restoration druid. In SoO I have not been in a situation where a healthstone or healing spell was not sufficient to avoid death from sudden burst dmg. Therefore I prefer Ysera's gift as it heals 4 times the amount that Renewal does on average. On top of that I don't even have to assign a key to the spell as it heals passively. I'm confident Ysera's gift has saved myself or a raidmember more often that renewal would have been able to. I have been in many tight bosskills where I was oom when the boss died. Over a long fight that 1% hp/sec could very well have saved someones life.
    Last edited by Mikael123; 2013-12-13 at 10:20 AM.

  18. #298
    Our 10m was slightly wanting for nice Raid CDs for H-Paragons fire lines, found Renewal helpful for times where I'd get targeted several times in a row (or if I was bad and walked into the disappearing amber graphic/got clipped by a BS rapid fire, etc.) I've been playing around with it in general and I rather like it for when my NS/HT hits for 150k and I want a little more oomph for myself. I usually try looking for times to use it, if I can't find any I switch back to Ysera's.

  19. #299
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Mana is not a problem for healers. Slow ticking raid damage is not a problem for healers. What makes healing challenging is to prepare for burst properly or handling random spikes.
    Mana is always a problem as a druid. Well, not a problem as such but if you never run out of mana then you have too much spirit by definition. Reforge some of it into mastery or crit or whatever. The only time mana should ever not be a concern is if you're somehow reforging away all spirit on all items and using non-spirit items where available, and still never run out of mana. Unless something is very odd, that shouldn't be the case, and so mana is a concern and free heals are nice.

    Seriously, try getting rid of some spirit and stacking more mastery. Let YG handle the slow healing and use all your newfound mastery to deal with the burst damage.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  20. #300
    "What makes healing useful is preparing for burst" - correct.

    How do you prepare for burst?

    Make sure you have people topped off, make sure you have gcds available and make sure you have cooldowns up. YG, like all hots, helps in the first two cases.

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