Ysera's gift is not useful healing

[Willfox]

Ysera's reduces the amount of mana you need to spend, and you really don't need the whole raid at 100% hp. If you are topping the raid off CW will be equally useless and I can't swiftmend off of CW. I don't think I'd use CW in any spec. Renewal is useful on low damage fights with big burst phases for dps, I could just bank my dream of cenarius procs as feral though and moonkins can heal themselves. I feel like as a tank I'd almost always take YG for the constant healing stream and use my other CDs to mitigate incoming damage.

@ Trubo:

a good example in which my tree buddy has problems is nazgrim hc. From our 10 men perspective he gets often focused by the hunter and then trys to reach the safe zone. As long as he moves he has no possibility to hardcast a regrowth. If his NS is on cd he trys to survive incoming dmg with genesis rejus, which wont work if the mage casts a arcanblast and nazgrim jumps to him. You can argue now that the hunter should be stunned, the mage should be silenced or stunned and the jump-dmg alone is not dangerous enough - which is by all means true. But well - what should i say: shit happens. Myb some of you know situations like this from there own exp. I love my guild and as long as we have some tools to press to survive an situation like this - we can kill the boss and get our loot. Ysera in that spoken example would laught at you while you are dying. Ofc after the wipe you can parse the log and you will then see that ysera has healed a few million (which is very low but anyway more then renev) but its a wipe - so what?.

Ok, lets look at the resto druid instant cast arsenal that he could be using whilst running.
-Swiftmend
-2 Piece, HT
-NS, HT
-Barkskin
-Ironbark
-Mushroom Bloom
-Tree Form: Regrowth (if specced of course)

Your druid has SO SO many spells he can use in combination to keep himself up, not to mention rolling lifebloom/rejuv, as there is only a minor mana downside to changing lifebloom target.

Ysera's over the course of a fight will have saved me enough mana to use that regrowth on myself if need be.

[Trubo]

@ Trubo:

a good example in which my tree buddy has problems is nazgrim hc. From our 10 men perspective he gets often focused by the hunter and then trys to reach the safe zone. As long as he moves he has no possibility to hardcast a regrowth.

Sounds to me that your healer friend needs to be more aware of where they're standing and when the next add wave spawns. There's no reason they can't be near a wall to anticipate getting picked by the sniper nor being able to handle the add for 10-15 seconds via Mighty Bash or Typhoon. Plus, assuming they have T16 2 set they probably have a fairly hefty stacked HT ready to use in addition to NS+HT/RG, Barkskin, Ironbark and MoU+HS.

If his NS is on cd he trys to survive incoming dmg with genesis rejus

Um, Genesis is worthless for that situation; the time it takes to account for GCD refreshing they could have simply Regrowthed and gotten a LS or the HoT running (depending on whether they glyph or not). Also, why isn't this person running 3x Lifebloom immediately after getting picked by the sniper nor standing in their Mushroom Efflorescence?

which wont work if the mage casts a arcanblast and nazgrim jumps to him.

And how is Renewal supposed to help when you get shit on by three different things within a second or two? Granted depending on how far away Nazgrim is it's possible to move out of both his Leap and Aftershock. Still, Renewal doesn't heal enough to prevent death from the damage you just described assuming the Sniper is still alive.

You can argue now that the hunter should be stunned, the mage should be silenced or stunned and the jump-dmg alone is not dangerous enough - which is by all means true. But well - what should i say: shit happens.

It does but that's not the fault of your healer friend; that's the fault of people in charge of adds not controlling them properly.

Myb some of you know situations like this from there own exp. I love my guild and as long as we have some tools to press to survive an situation like this - we can kill the boss and get our loot. Ysera in that spoken example would laught at you while you are dying. Ofc after the wipe you can parse the log and you will then see that ysera has healed a few million (which is very low but anyway more then renev) but its a wipe - so what?

You're discounting the usefulness it had in healing you/others most likely affected by Bonecrusher and assuming that Renewal would prevent death during insane damage burst.

That is just an example of my own exp. There are a lot of contra arguments like: your paladin could cast lay on hands, I could cast ns+ht and so on. Thats true. But my own opinion is that each player realizes his healthbar even faster then the healers if they drop low and renev is like healthstone the fastest way to get back to the safe zone of your health. Besides the realization the healers have a loot of heals in there toolkit, but not many instants... if someone drops under one second you cannot do much to them as a healer and if you can you have then cd on that instant.

Nothing really to say against other than why are you routinely dipping so low that you need Renewal to survive? Sounds to me more of a lack of raid awareness or bad healers. Fights are pretty well known within the first few weeks of a new raid tier so people that bother to do research should know the big burst personal/raid damage spikes and can plan around them accordingly.

Why did so many people love there healthstone? Because it safes there lives multipli times.

Assuming that using it prevents you from dying to the next hit(s) taken before being healed. Better than nothing so props to you if you actually use them.

Somebody myb say now that they never ever use a hs at all and they never die in og which is cool. Then take ysera by all means - ofc! If you are like me like someone wrote in this threat a bit panicly and you want to be your own judge if you die or life as a range dd - then renev > ysera.

Its a question of taste in my opinion. Like most talents. Which is how blizz intendet it.

I agree with your last statement about it being preferential more than anything; outside of dps roles I would never take Renewal/CW over YG and the times I would use Renewal/CW as a dps are fairly limited (Siegecrafter Heroic mostly).

[Deleted]

And how is Renewal supposed to help when you get shit on by three different things within a second or two? Granted depending on how far away Nazgrim is it's possible to move out of both his Leap and Aftershock. Still, Renewal doesn't heal enough to prevent death from the damage you just described assuming the Sniper is still alive.

With gs 570+, as tauren and with a resto shamy we are by around 800k+ infight. All attacks that can be mitigated or avoided and are not raidwide are roughly around 300k in og. So i guess blizz wants us to lose around 40%~ of our current live in that situation for each hit that you eat. I dont want to blame my tree-friend by the way - ofc not he alone, we as a team failed in that case. But anyhow its just an example on how it can go. I starting to feel like i am the only one here wiping with his raid on bosses on personal progress ... :-( ofc we killed nazgrim this week in the first try but thats not everytime the case. Juggernaut is an other example of heavy spikes if something went wrong. It should nkt happen but well - it happens.

What i was trying to say is: i believe that blizz has following strategy in mind: if you get 3 avoidable or mitigateable attacks in a quick sequence you will lose roughly 120% of your life and die in that process if you not respond quickly with a renev or someone else quickly (free from gcd preferably) reacts with a heal. Thats my personal feeling about the hits i get in og as a moonkin. Myb its wrong to reflect that guess to feral, tank or tree due to the different DRs they have but for Boomkins it should be the right direction.

So for me its a other way to safe my ass if i or the raid has done something wrong.

What comes to my mind right now as a good example are the little orbs that appear direct under my fat boomy-ass on the malkoroc-encounter. If it happens that i eat one i loose my debuff an weak auras screams like a bitch which alerts me that i have to instantly heal myself to not lose any hp at all. So i use Healthstone for the first orb, Renev for the second, Ns+ht for the thirt (in this order because ns+ht is a dmg lose and i shouldnt eat 3 orbs at all) and can eat the pools anyway if they appear in my surface with barkskin or/and unending resolve. The fight lasts roughly around 5 minutes in our raid so in the time i eat a forth orb i get healthstone back from cd.

Again: i dont want to say ysera is bad or wrong or renev is better. I just find it better for myself and try to explain why.

[Geolock]

Simply baffled by my fellow druid community. They gave the trees NS and let us have a FREE, PASSIVE, SMART heal in it place that ticks every 5 seconds (which leaves the smallest region of error as far overhealing of that tier) and people are actually griping about it. From what I can tell the healers and tanks aren't complaining about it, personally as a moonkin (half the time) the only health meter I'm usually looking at is the bosses' and/or my own. Can't really talk for the cats. The fact that they made it a smart heal that trinkles over onto other people instead of simply turning into overhealing for the druid is just gravy. Sorry that I sound a bit grouchy myself but it's like they handed us a present and there are people really complaining it's not big enough. My point is: on the tree side of things, I got to keep my NS so why would I want another cd to mess around with when I can take a passive heal that shows up decently well on the meters? People complaining need to remember that it is only USELESS in a very niche environment.

[Trubo]

With gs 570+, as tauren and with a resto shamy we are by around 800k+ infight. All attacks that can be mitigated or avoided and are not raidwide are roughly around 300k in og. So i guess blizz wants us to lose around 40%~ of our current live in that situation for each hit that you eat. I dont want to blame my tree-friend by the way - ofc not he alone, we as a team failed in that case. But anyhow its just an example on how it can go. I starting to feel like i am the only one here wiping with his raid on bosses on personal progress ... :-( ofc we killed nazgrim this week in the first try but thats not everytime the case. Juggernaut is an other example of heavy spikes if something went wrong. It should nkt happen but well - it happens.

What i was trying to say is: i believe that blizz has following strategy in mind: if you get 3 avoidable or mitigateable attacks in a quick sequence you will lose roughly 120% of your life and die in that process if you not respond quickly with a renev or someone else quickly (free from gcd preferably) reacts with a heal. Thats my personal feeling about the hits i get in og as a moonkin. Myb its wrong to reflect that guess to feral, tank or tree due to the different DRs they have but for Boomkins it should be the right direction.

So for me its a other way to safe my ass if i or the raid has done something wrong.

What comes to my mind right now as a good example are the little orbs that appear direct under my fat boomy-ass on the malkoroc-encounter. If it happens that i eat one i loose my debuff an weak auras screams like a bitch which alerts me that i have to instantly heal myself to not lose any hp at all. So i use Healthstone for the first orb, Renev for the second, Ns+ht for the thirt (in this order because ns+ht is a dmg lose and i shouldnt eat 3 orbs at all) and can eat the pools anyway if they appear in my surface with barkskin or/and unending resolve. The fight lasts roughly around 5 minutes in our raid so in the time i eat a forth orb i get healthstone back from cd.

Again: i dont want to say ysera is bad or wrong or renev is better. I just find it better for myself and try to explain why.

I wasn't trying to imply that you're wrong and I'm right. I disagree with you on how valuable Renewal is overall for all specs in that even with fairly fast reflexes you can die before getting Renewal off, making the talent worse than YG in that no healing was done. Certainly there are niches where it can be useful but to me those are so few and far between that it's not really worth the effort to plan around that one bad case when you have a talent that works in all cases.

[Pennoyer]

Well the only reason to argue things is at the highest level of play, where skill is relatively similar across guilds. At lower levels skill varies too much, people stand in too much, and you may have one healering carrying the other 4-5. As a resto druid in the 24th best 25 man currently (and ranked in the top 10 resto druids in the world according to proraiders) YG beats renewal for resto hands down. I often never even health stone. And for CW i'd rather Rej where the over healing adds to bloom and i can swiftmend off it.

If you need to spam lots of Rejuvs that's fine, but if you know that one person is going to take or is currently taking intense damage a combination of Rejuv, CW, and Regrowths is probably better and more mana-efficient than just spamming Regrowth on them. If NS was baseline and YG was available in ToT, Council of Elders is an example of a fight where I'd probably take CW because general raid damage only occurs for about half the fight and one of the highest risks of death is Frostbite, when Malak is empowered and there isn't much raid damage.

[Mirri]

Simply baffled by my fellow druid community. They gave the trees NS and let us have a FREE, PASSIVE, SMART heal in it place that ticks every 5 seconds (which leaves the smallest region of error as far overhealing of that tier) and people are actually griping about it. From what I can tell the healers and tanks aren't complaining about it, personally as a moonkin (half the time) the only health meter I'm usually looking at is the bosses' and/or my own. Can't really talk for the cats. The fact that they made it a smart heal that trinkles over onto other people instead of simply turning into overhealing for the druid is just gravy. Sorry that I sound a bit grouchy myself but it's like they handed us a present and there are people really complaining it's not big enough. My point is: on the tree side of things, I got to keep my NS so why would I want another cd to mess around with when I can take a passive heal that shows up decently well on the meters? People complaining need to remember that it is only USELESS in a very niche environment.

It's not completely useless, YG has its niche uses for some fights where you don't require the extra CD's. However, I feel either CW/Renewal will serve me better on most other fights. I tend to value burst healing capabilities higher over HoTs as a dps mainly because I think staying alive is more of a personal responsibility.

[insanedruid]

If you need to spam lots of Rejuvs that's fine, but if you know that one person is going to take or is currently taking intense damage a combination of Rejuv, CW, and Regrowths is probably better and more mana-efficient than just spamming Regrowth on them. If NS was baseline and YG was available in ToT, Council of Elders is an example of a fight where I'd probably take CW because general raid damage only occurs for about half the fight and one of the highest risks of death is Frostbite, when Malak is empowered and there isn't much raid damage.

I would rather take YG if I want to save mana. The heal provided by YG will save you more mana.
And for frostbite if you are in 25man the CW will mostly be overheal, in 10man you will spam regrowth anyways.

[Deleted]

I've posted my reasoning quite a few times now, but I'll give it another try since a few people doesn't quite seem to understand how most of us reason when it comes to those talents.

but if you know that one person is going to take or is currently taking intense damage a combination of Rejuv, CW, and Regrowths is probably better and more mana-efficient than just spamming Regrowth on them.

Yes, 2 healing spells + CW would be better than just spamming regrowth. But that's very far from a valid and realistic comparison imo. Because no druid would ever stop using hots and cds and resort to just regrowth spamming. In that case its more of a l2p issue.

If I was in that scenario I would most likely start off with rejuv+swiftmend and if that wasn't enough, throw an ironbark or whatever on the fella unless he is wise enough to use a CD of his own. If he still would need more healing, then perhaps a regrowth would be needed. Sure you could switch out any default spell and use CW instead, but that would have two big setbacks:

1. I would loose a smart hot with 100% uptime.
2. High risk of overhealing: After 6 sec when the last 33% of CW heals, in most cases he's most likely dead or at full hp by that time. So even when using CW in that specific situation, it's very likely that 33% is overhealing, and not too unlikely that 66% is overhealing. This is why I would prefer to use any of all my default spells long before CW.

In my opinion we have much better options at our disposal already, making the cost of loosing YG for another defensive CD too high. The need for CW in that narrow situation is not big at all, the fact that most druids are very fine without it is proof enough. Sure CW might be useful in some spec for some situation, but for resto pve?
I would not take it.

YG has its niche uses for some fights where you don't require the extra CD's.

I disagree, YG is usefull all the time, it´s a smart heal with 100% uptime, not the same as "it has it's niche uses".
And as a dps I have never felt I couldn't get through a fight because of lack of defensive CDs.

[Aboubacar]

Sorry to add more clutter to the conversation at this point, but the reason Renewal is so much more potent than YG or even NS is that if your reaction times are rather quick you can Renewal and healthstone as well if you need it while still on global cooldown whereas you cannot NS, saving you from things like a missed interrupt there that glurpy died to.

5sec to wait for a 30k heal when ur gonna die

[Juvencus]

So it took you 15 pages to conclude that all 3 talents have their niches with YG being the most universal as it is passive and smart heal?

Didn't we already know that?

[teddabear]

I used Renewal before Ysera's was available, the cooldown is too long to be worthwhile.

[Deleted]

Sorry to add more clutter to the conversation at this point, but the reason Renewal is so much more potent than YG or even NS is that if your reaction times are rather quick you can Renewal and healthstone as well if you need it while still on global cooldown whereas you cannot NS, saving you from things like a missed interrupt there that glurpy died to.

5sec to wait for a 30k heal when ur gonna die

Are you really still trying to argue against everyone playing a Druid? If you're in that much danger of dying, you should look at your healers or stop standing fire. It's amazing that you keep arguing the same nonsense over and over and I think it's quite clear, that people do not agree with you.

But keep using w/e, won't make a difference to the rest of us anyways. Just don't claim that you actually know for a fact, which is better, cause clearly you don't.

[Aboubacar]

Are you really still trying to argue against everyone playing a Druid? If you're in that much danger of dying, you should look at your healers or stop standing fire. It's amazing that you keep arguing the same nonsense over and over and I think it's quite clear, that people do not agree with you.

But keep using w/e, won't make a difference to the rest of us anyways. Just don't claim that you actually know for a fact, which is better, cause clearly you don't.

Sorry, but some people actually think about the decisions they make rather than just assuming something is better because "everyone is using it". The tier is small in the grand scheme of things , but it's interesting to thing about regardless and the impact that the talent actually has.

I could care less whether you think I am right or wrong or if you cleared 14/14 hc iirc? (fyi no one cares you outgear by 20ilvls anyway). I also doubt you've gone into raids and played with all 3 talents to get a feel for it or even looked at logs. The truth of the matter is you don't care and only offer the support of "but mom, everyone else is using it". To top it all off, I've clarified multiple times my PoV is resto/dps, not tank anyway so I took your word for it several pages ago and assumed you knew what you're talking about for now until another guardian offered different feedback. So continue to be condescending when I'm not even directing a point at you to begin with.

[Fountaiin]

Are you really still trying to argue against everyone playing a Druid? If you're in that much danger of dying, you should look at your healers or stop standing fire. It's amazing that you keep arguing the same nonsense over and over and I think it's quite clear, that people do not agree with you.

But keep using w/e, won't make a difference to the rest of us anyways. Just don't claim that you actually know for a fact, which is better, cause clearly you don't.

This is a pretty terrible argument. I prefer Renewal :-)

[Deleted]

This is a pretty terrible argument. I prefer Renewal :-)

well it rly depends on what kind of druid u play xD if its from a guardian standpoint I can see its usefull incase u get a sudden big hit or messed up a rotation of a dodge or dmg reduc cd.... and for a feral as well since u are standing place near the add... but for boomkin and healzor I see it rly useful xD since the only time u should get a big hit on u will be on AoE from bosses or single target stuff.... but the healers should make up for that otherwise u properly have a healthstone.... I would say that YG would be better for the casters since ofc u will get hit randomly from some abilities but YG should be able 2 a little healing there and the healers should do the rest.... and when u dont take dmg the YG healing heals someone else.....

[Deleted]

So, to summarize this thread:

1. Fappasaurus starts a QQ thread stating that yseras gift is useless healing. Not encouraging a discussion nor asking a question.
2. People try, for 15 pages, to explain to him why most druids run with YG, and they do so while providing facts and/or numbers - actual proof.
3. Fappasaurus keeps spamming his gibberish in response to every post, and is mocking anyone who disagree with him. Making all good posts who actually discuss interesting things, drown in spam.

Don't create a thread if you're not willing to be open minded and discuss the subject. On top of that all you do is spam nonsense and insult people. How about if you actually read what everyone has been posting for 15 pages? Because you still haven't fully understood how the talent works, you basically prove your own reasoning wrong every single time you spam your crap. Your reasoning has been taken apart more than once or twice in here.

5sec to wait for a 30k heal when ur gonna die

Are you really that stupid? If you expect Yseras Gift to be a life saver spell, like lay on hands/death pact/cauterize or something in that nature, then you don't even qualify to discuss the talents at all tbh, even if you where that open minded. It's not intended to save your life when you are about to die. Read the tool tip, 1000 more times.

Someone needs to put an end to both his thread/monolog and account imo...

[Aboubacar]

So, to summarize this thread:

1. Fappasaurus starts a QQ thread stating that yseras gift is useless healing. Not encouraging a discussion nor asking a question.
2. People try, for 15 pages, to explain to him why most druids run with YG, and they do so while providing facts and/or numbers - actual proof.
3. Fappasaurus keeps spamming his gibberish in response to every post, and is mocking anyone who disagree with him. Making all good posts who actually discuss interesting things, drown in spam.

Don't create a thread if you're not willing to be open minded and discuss the subject. On top of that all you do is spam nonsense and insult people. How about if you actually read what everyone has been posting for 15 pages? Because you still haven't fully understood how the talent works, you basically prove your own reasoning wrong every single time you spam your crap. Your reasoning has been taken apart more than once or twice in here.

Someone needs to put an end to both his thread/monolog and account imo...

If you think I am the one that needs to be open-minded you're the one that didn't read my posts or the thread. Nothing is "spammed" or gibberish gibberish just because you disagree with it. If they closed every someone disagreed with they wouldn't have a website.

Are you really that stupid? If you expect Yseras Gift to be a life saver spell, like lay on hands/death pact/cauterize or something in that nature, then you don't even qualify to discuss the talents at all tbh, even if you where that open minded. It's not intended to save your life when you are about to die. Read the tool tip, 1000 more times.

I'm sorry you don't understand that the other talents outside of Ysera's in the same tier can do this. That's the point. More impact during the hardest parts of an encounter damage-wise. If you unspecced Ysera's today your healers would notice no change, that's how menial the healing is, but don't continue to insult me and my talent choices if you're not willing to even try the alternatives.

[Deleted]

I'll give this up since this is obviously completely meaningless, but I just want to clarify one last thing.

The only one who actually ever said anything about peoples talent choices in here where you, when you stated that everyone who used YG was either lazy, or couldn't handle more keybinds.

And no, I'm not the one who doesn't understand the talents or needs to be more open minded. -I'm not the one having 15 pages of people telling me the same thing over and over again...

[Alltat]

Sorry to add more clutter to the conversation at this point, but the reason Renewal is so much more potent than YG or even NS is that if your reaction times are rather quick you can Renewal and healthstone as well if you need it while still on global cooldown whereas you cannot NS, saving you from things like a missed interrupt there that glurpy died to.

The situation where you take one big hit and then take another big hit again with enough time for you to react and press a button but not enough time for the GCD you're on to end and the damage is such that the two hits together deal more than 120% of your health (so they're fatal without a heal and a healthstone) but less than 150% of your health (so Renewal is enough to save you) is... well, does that ever really happen? Once every few months, maybe? That's a pretty narrow window both in timing and in damage taken, and unless both conditions are met then Renewal didn't actually save you - you'd either have been fine anyway or Renewal wouldn't have helped.