Ysera's gift is not useful healing

[Hctaz]

I'm the tank. I need it. It also heals others if I get over-healed and don't need it. Frankly, from a tanks perspective I have a hard time finding a problem with the talent.

I think anybody would have a hard time finding a problem with it that could be made up with another talent in the tier. It's just so damn good. I've performed all three roles and I can see it's usefulness in all of them. I certainly remember being brought down to 1% health plenty of times as a tank. If that smart heal gives me the 30k extra health I need to survive then I'm all for it. It's "lazy" healing I suppose but it doesn't waste mana and doesn't overheal.

[Trubo]

The talent tier is not just for resto

Then stop with the implications that Resto Druids should take this talent over YG. In the time it takes to direct heal someone I could have cast 2-3 Rejuvs. If the entire raid is taking an equal amount of damage (Juggernaut's Shock Pulse for example) why the hell would I neglect most of the raid just to make sure one person stays alive when my HoTs, coupled with everyone else's AoE + raid cds are sufficient?

Now for non-Resto I suppose it could be useful to use something other than YG but even in the case of Juggernaut's Shock Pulse CW will not heal you enough to keep you from dying; if you die while using your defensive abilities then either you stood in additional bad, someone caused another raid wide aoe pulse (laser through oil) or the healers themselves are to blame.

Lastly, do not compare all healers to Disc Priests.

[mayco]

Why do I need a 30% max hp(300k) heal when I have 600k frenzied regen heal that I can use on cooldown (1.5 sec)?

[Deleted]

I think it very much depends on your spec what you think of the talent. As a guardian renewal is often the best because you personally need some burst healing and not sustained hps.
As feral you often find cenarion ward better than the others because you won't take unnecessary burst damage that you can't plan for, and because YG in itself doesn't do much saving. CW is often good for healing up damage after soaking a puddle on malkorok for example. You have free GCD's too so this talent is little loss of dps.
As resto or balance however you often use YG because you have other things that you could use your GCD's on in stead of CW. Again renewal isn't very useful because personal burst damage is a very minor issue.

As a Guardian you use Frenzied, if you need an instant big heal - upwards 800k FR says hi. Don't know why any Guardian would use Renewal tbh.

[teddabear]

As a Guardian you use Frenzied, if you need an instant big heal - upwards 800k FR says hi. Don't know why any Guardian would use Renewal tbh.

Exactly. The only spec that would use Renewal is going to use FR instead. CW sucks for everybody. Ysera may be weak but it's better than the others.

[Alzu]

Exactly. The only spec that would use Renewal is going to use FR instead. CW sucks for everybody. Ysera may be weak but it's better than the others.

CW is actually quite good. Low cooldown, heals a lot and can be used preemptively. Only downside is the GCD. And well, the fact that no one but pvp resto druids need it.

[Alzu]

And that other absorb effects get consumed first. And that it doesn't proc until the absorb procs.

It is literally worthless outside of PvP.

I'm learning so much from this thread. Didn't know this either. Not that I have used it too much outside soloing and pvp though.

[Dead_MAX]

I belive for balance and guardian spec its great...I bet for feral as well.

Dunno about resto spec, I don't play that one.

[Checksmix]

it's better than the other two options... And a lot of things won't save a player on their own, efflo won't or healing rain or healing stream but COMBINED they will.

[Deleted]

You don't quite understand healing if you think letting the hots and healing rains do their jobs and healers healing themselves a lot is a bad thing. When things go bad and people take a lot of damage then sure they'll get a targeted heal, but during low damage (especially in 25's) you can count on smart heals doing a lot of work if the situation isn't dire. Also good healers know when they, themselves will take a lot of damage and therefore prepare for it with a HoT or a shield. This and old placement of swiftmends is the reason for high self healing.

As a Guardian you use Frenzied, if you need an instant big heal - upwards 800k FR says hi. Don't know why any Guardian would use Renewal tbh.

A 5% self heal is not noticeable in any way, be that during high damage intake or just normally. If you use YG as a guardian it is only because you NEVER EVER could use renewal because of lacking damage intake. It has nothing to do with personal survivability. I prefer renewal when tanking for times where I make a mistake or as a way to use a maul proc for the upcomming melee hit but still have a burst heal for the tank switch debuff. And when I make a mistake; I don't want it to be dependent on my rage if I survive.

[boomkinhero]

As a healer, there are likely better choices.
As a Boomkin, it is wonderful.

The issue with renewal is that it is personal use only.. a healthstone on a longer cooldown. This is where I find it's issue. I can think of Thok as the only place I may rather have it - but even then I don't. Renewal is good solely because it can save you from what would otherwise be death. This happens if 1) You make a mistake or 2) A healer makes a mistake. During progression may be nice to have, but I've not had an issue where it would have saved me.. already have NS/HT which heals for more and is usually not on CD when needed.

CW is a GCD for a HoT after a hit is taken. Instantly bad for non-healers.. if you have to offheal to the extent you need to pick up CW then you may need another healer instead.

YG has the flexibility of passive and the output to make it worth while. If your healers (or yourself) just snipe heal everything and overheal like mad, I could understand how it's not effective. But an extra at least 5% health after a big hit when you would want to use some sort of self healing (like NS/HT) guaranteed is beautiful. I've had times on Thok where I was kiting with no healer in range.. YG helps tremendously. Someone gets sniped a big hit when I'm at full health, bang free 30k at least.

Needless to say, there have been issues where raiders have dipped below 30k - Who's to say I hadn't healed them? That would have prevented the death. Same goes for saving me.

YG can be primarily over healing replaced to your numbers.. just like efflo pretty much.. but it's consistent and always there - it's reliable for when you need it.

[Zaelkath]

I'd be happy if they just fixed it so it doesn't heal people out of your party so I can stop avoiding druids like the plague while in a city.

Unless they have already...haven't played since 5.4 launch lol.

[Checksmix]

Again probably different perspectives, I almost never see or receive a targeted and/or direct heal from a healer in a 25man raid. It's pretty much stand in efflo/HR or ur SoL. I feel like I'm right about this being common (in 25s) though not too sure yet, because I've been watching some streams(again for what it's worth probably not the most accurate assessment) of healers and even when 5 people in different groups dip low, disc priests continue to smite the boss or PoH 1 group, so forgive me if I don't feel safe w/ renewal in my arsenal of defensives to rotate.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm saying I run out of stuff (Ursoc, healthstone, NS, skin at least) on heroic farm/progress unless the pull is 100% smooth(not always but often). A lot of people are saying if there is screw ups it's a wipe anyway, certainly not the case, a lot of pulls can be salvaged and will be, and I certainly wouldn't want to be the dead guy on those pulls irregardless of my death being my fault or a missed raid CD or just sloppy/unlucky pull.

I don't need salv on every pull, I ask for it to be safe anyway

To add to my 'generalization' of sorts about healers, just browsing random garrosh logs you can find healers top heals ofc the tanks, then themselves? Very common theme I've noticed healers healing themselves a lot. I'm looking at a disc priest log right now. Only PW:S throughout the entire encounter is direct (note garrosh is >10minutes long fight). I guarantee there's a situation where someone could have used a flash... Healers just don't understand to direct heal anyone these days I guess unless it's a spec thing.

--checking spread fights now... guess what mostly atonement and poh on paragons... nothing direct. This is why dps have to be so careful of their own HP and personals, healers just aren't going to target you if you need it anymore.

that's because 99% of the time smart heals will react faster than targeted heals. Also um rej? that's a targeted heal...

[Purpleisbetter]

YG ticks aren't that weak once u're getting bmbed by a rest shaman, tbh.


Then ya know, its about "adding little stuff up" like Efflos ticks, GoTO shields, some EoL ticks, let's add earthlivings...everything counts.

[Deleted]

fappasaurus, I'm sorry, but after reading through all these pages, it's pretty clear to me that you lack some actual experience and/or knowledge. You sort of shot your self in the foot with some of your later posts... May I suggest that you simply listen to what everyone is saying, because they are right and you are wrong (as people have proven multiple times). Of course go ahead and use whatever talent you prefer. No matter what talent you decide to use, you can make it work. But Yseras is obviously the go to talent choice in most cases (that's why so many players use it). So don't tell people what talents to use and not to use, when they clearly know a lot more about this subject, than you do.

And btw; I love how you just dropped that analyze of how healers heal in wow, that was... grand. Not to mention that post about a disc priest. Funny stuff.

Healers just don't understand to direct heal anyone these days

Wait what, we can target players and heal them directly? Here I was just thinking how hard all raids have been with only efflorescence and wild growth... Perhaps you could share some more of your vast healing experience with the rest of us?

Also I want to say thank you for creating this thread, it gave me a lot of lols.

[Deleted]

You don't quite understand healing if you think letting the hots and healing rains do their jobs and healers healing themselves a lot is a bad thing. When things go bad and people take a lot of damage then sure they'll get a targeted heal, but during low damage (especially in 25's) you can count on smart heals doing a lot of work if the situation isn't dire. Also good healers know when they, themselves will take a lot of damage and therefore prepare for it with a HoT or a shield. This and old placement of swiftmends is the reason for high self healing.

A 5% self heal is not noticeable in any way, be that during high damage intake or just normally. If you use YG as a guardian it is only because you NEVER EVER could use renewal because of lacking damage intake. It has nothing to do with personal survivability. I prefer renewal when tanking for times where I make a mistake or as a way to use a maul proc for the upcomming melee hit but still have a burst heal for the tank switch debuff. And when I make a mistake; I don't want it to be dependent on my rage if I survive.

Unless your gear sucks, you really shouldn't have a Rage issue - like ever. The only times I am Rage starved, is if I've had to spam FR to stay alive for several seconds. We're talking Heroic progress kills here, where healers are either dead or oom or something. Other than that, I always have Rage enough to use FR. I rarely have to not use a Maul proc, cause I have no Rage or cause the Rage I have is all spend on FR. If I do need instant Rage, I use Enrage Regen.

Renewal on myself or YG on the raid, to me the choice is quite clear. I don't plan on fucking up so much, that FR can't heal me and if I do, it's most likely a wipe anyways.

Edit: Picking YG has nothing to do with damage intake. If there was no damage intake, why even bother taking any of the talents in that Tier?

YG may not have anything to do with my own personal survivability but that doesn't make it a bad talent. I'm just telling you, that your reason to pick CW as a personal extra heal on a 30 sec CD over YG that's a raid wide HoT isn't the optimal choice.

[Franklyn]

This thread is weird. Lots of upset people, but I still haven't seen any decent explanation of why Ysera's Gift is not useful. It ticks for more than Efflorescence, Wild Growth, Lifebloom and Rejuvenation. If any of those can save lives then obviously a tick from Ysera's Gift can too. And if none of those can save lives, why the hell am I even in the raid?

They don't save lives. They heal back damage slowly/top people off.


Sure, YG looks good on the meters. But the healing is not useful. When there's low damage, and healers have time to let efficient heals pick people up, they don't care about your shitty YG ticks. When there's a ton of damage going out, and they're rotating CDs, and putting out 3-400k hps, your 30k YG ticks every few secs doesn't do fuck all.

You know what i (they) want, as a healer? Pick a useful talent (Renewal) and use it when you're low/dying. So i don't have to worry about you, and can heal others that might actually need it.

The ONLY reason i use YG as resto, is because Renewal can't be used on others, and i don't have time to cast CW.
DPS specs should always take Renewal imo.
I don't tank, so i don't know what bears do.

If you're just lazy and doing farm, then sure, use YG. That doesn't make it better though.

[huth]

Any spell that prevents you from dropping to 0 health saves your life. It doesn't matter how much it heals you.

I'd be happy if they just fixed it so it doesn't heal people out of your party so I can stop avoiding druids like the plague while in a city.

Unless they have already...haven't played since 5.4 launch lol.

They fixed that before it even went live.

[Deleted]

The ONLY reason i use YG as resto, is because Renewal can't be used on others, and i don't have time to cast CW.
DPS specs should always take Renewal imo.
I don't tank, so i don't know what bears do.

The reason I use Ysera as resto is as you said, renewal can't be used on others, and my reason for not using cenarion ward is the amount of overhealing I fear that talent has. Whereas Ysera's will allways heal the one who needs it the most, during the entire encounter. Therefor Ysera's healing is the most effective for me and my playstyle, imo. It also frees up a few GCD I could use for healing spells that would otherwise be lost.

Now for the DPS. Here's where I differ a bit. I think Ysera is alot more useful considering that it is a raidwide smart heal, that do good throughout the entire encounter, whereas renewal might get used once or twice at most, if even at all. Also, you already have quite a few lifesaver-abilities, just to mention a few from the top of my head; barkskin, might of ursoc, frenzied regen. Now if that is not enough as a lifesaver, the issue is most likely something other than the talent choice. Therefor I would Ysera's even as a DPS.

Imo it's just the most effective and useful talent when compared to; yet another lifesaver cd and cenarion overheal. Only time I might choose a diffrent talent would be as guardian, idk if renewal could be useful in that case.

[Trubo]

They don't save lives. They heal back damage slowly/top people off.


Sure, YG looks good on the meters. But the healing is not useful. When there's low damage, and healers have time to let efficient heals pick people up, they don't care about your shitty YG ticks. When there's a ton of damage going out, and they're rotating CDs, and putting out 3-400k hps, your 30k YG ticks every few secs doesn't do fuck all.

So because YG is manaless, GCD less, smart low-ticking healing it's worthless? In the course of 30 seconds YG will do as much effective healing as Renewal sub 70%, with the difference that if you're topped off it will heal someone else that needs healing.

You know what i (they) want, as a healer? Pick a useful talent (Renewal) and use it when you're low/dying. So i don't have to worry about you, and can heal others that might actually need it.

If you're burning through Barkskin, Might of Ursoc+Healthstone and Symbiosis defensive cds that you need CW or Renewal you are doing something extremely wrong but I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry.

The ONLY reason i use YG as resto, is because Renewal can't be used on others, and i don't have time to cast CW.
DPS specs should always take Renewal imo.
I don't tank, so i don't know what bears do.

Bears take Renewal if they want a self-heal that doesn't rely on Rage, otherwise YG.

If you're just lazy and doing farm, then sure, use YG. That doesn't make it better though.

Any healing that the healers don't have to deal with != useless healing especially when your heal can auto-target others if you are at full health.