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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    Mana is always a problem as a druid. Well, not a problem as such but if you never run out of mana then you have too much spirit by definition. Reforge some of it into mastery or crit or whatever. The only time mana should ever not be a concern is if you're somehow reforging away all spirit on all items and using non-spirit items where available, and still never run out of mana. Unless something is very odd, that shouldn't be the case, and so mana is a concern and free heals are nice.

    Seriously, try getting rid of some spirit and stacking more mastery. Let YG handle the slow healing and use all your newfound mastery to deal with the burst damage.
    I didn't phrase my point well enough sorry. I meant that the tiny throughput that YG does, will not save you any mana during downtime, because smart heals like effloressene or smite will cover that damage anyways. Healing is not so tight during downtime that one YG will reduce your amount of spells cast. Smart/ground heals like efflo or smite will cover healing during downtime either way.

    I'm not saying that HoTs are useless. However those already do so much overhealing that another one (provided by your dps) will not be very effective.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    That goes both ways: If your healers need you(dps perspective) YG to keep the raid up then maybe you should look at what the hell your healers are doing.
    Mana is not a problem for healers. Slow ticking raid damage is not a problem for healers. What makes healing challenging is to prepare for burst properly or handling random spikes.
    Myb fappasaurus does something wrong in the way he discusses the topic but anyway: this post here is a good and valid argument pro Reneval in my opinion :-)

  3. #303
    Agreed, burst Dmg is what makes it hard to heal. Either through fight mechanics or a mess-up, burst dmg can be fatal in some of the more unforgiving fights.
    Having extra CDs for that eventuality will hopefully lead to faster progression on such bosses by providing an avenue to recover.

    As a dps, I tend to look favorably upon such talents.
    Last edited by Mirri; 2013-12-14 at 01:47 AM.
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  4. #304
    Holy god, this is still going?!

    Use renewal on fights with burst damage where you know you'll need more than a lock cookie and a NS HT.
    Use Ysera's on fights with consistent or low damage to you. Or if you don't need renewal.
    Eg. Malk, Ysera's does a ton of healing for me. None of its wasted as it all goes to my shield or someone else. I tell my healers not to worry about me for the most part.

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  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonsaii View Post
    Holy god, this is still going?!
    Use renewal on fights with burst damage where you know you'll need more than a lock cookie and a NS HT.
    SI
    Ursocs
    Barkskin
    Lock cookies
    If that doesn't cover it then HotW.

    The thing is there is no such fight where Renewal is necessary and for a 30% heal a 2 minute cooldown is ridiculous. If there was such a fight everybody would be replaced with Rogues because of their off the chart OP defensive CD's.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by teddabear View Post
    SI
    Ursocs
    Barkskin
    Lock cookies
    If that doesn't cover it then HotW.

    The thing is there is no such fight where Renewal is necessary and for a 30% heal a 2 minute cooldown is ridiculous. If there was such a fight everybody would be replaced with Rogues because of their off the chart OP defensive CD's.
    Some fights don't require renewal, their dmg incomes matches CW better. It depends on a fight to fight basis.
    Mew!

  7. #307
    This is an issue of purpose: do you want your toolkit to include a situational heal? If so take CW or renewal. If situational is not what you want or you'd prefer to use a spell or ability that is already in your toolkit the. Pick the un-situational, consistent, YG.

    for instance: as Resto I take YG for every fight because it is out of sight, out of mind and it does it's thing while I heal normally; as Feral I take renewal for every fight because I like have an on use minor defensive cool down.

  8. #308
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Sorry, but some people actually think about the decisions they make rather than just assuming something is better because "everyone is using it". The tier is small in the grand scheme of things , but it's interesting to thing about regardless and the impact that the talent actually has.

    I could care less whether you think I am right or wrong or if you cleared 14/14 hc iirc? (fyi no one cares you outgear by 20ilvls anyway). I also doubt you've gone into raids and played with all 3 talents to get a feel for it or even looked at logs. The truth of the matter is you don't care and only offer the support of "but mom, everyone else is using it". To top it all off, I've clarified multiple times my PoV is resto/dps, not tank anyway so I took your word for it several pages ago and assumed you knew what you're talking about for now until another guardian offered different feedback. So continue to be condescending when I'm not even directing a point at you to begin with.

    When did I say, that I pick YG, cause "everyone else is picking it"? I didn't..... I pick YG cause:

    1. I don't have bad healers who can't heal through burst damage.
    2. I don't stand in fire.
    3. Should I need an instant heal, I have FR healing me for upwards 1 million with the gear I currently have.

    What does my gear have to do with anything? If I were in Flex gear, doing Flex raiding only, the damage would be lower to match my gear. And why would you say, that I don't care? I've explained to you over and over, why I pick YG as Guardian and why I believe YG is superior as Guardian.

    Also, you haven't actually clarified, that you're talking about Resto and Boomkin in your initial post. If you really wanted to clarify, you would have edited your very first post. Your entire reason to start this thread has nothing to do with wanting to debate, cause you're clearly only interested in your own opinion. Despite people with far more experience telling you, why they pick YG or that YG is far better in specific situations. Yet you still claim, that people picking YG, only does so, cause they don't know better.

    Who's really the fool here?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    This is a pretty terrible argument. I prefer Renewal :-)
    It is not. It's common sense, that your healers are supposed to keep you alive through x amount of damage on any given fight - if everything goes as planned. If you then decide to be bad and stand in fire and for some reason have zero Rage or too low RPS to use FR to heal yourself enough, then sure, pick Renewal.

    But please stop with the backwards thinking people. "My healers can't keep up and I stand in fire, thus I must pick Renewal to stay alive".

    I think "My healers will keep me up, I don't generally stand in fire and if I need extra healing, I use FR. That way I benefit the raid more with YG ticking non stop".

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishpsycho View Post
    When did I say, that I pick YG, cause "everyone else is picking it"? I didn't..... I pick YG cause:

    1. I don't have bad healers who can't heal through burst damage.
    2. I don't stand in fire.
    3. Should I need an instant heal, I have FR healing me for upwards 1 million with the gear I currently have.

    What does my gear have to do with anything? If I were in Flex gear, doing Flex raiding only, the damage would be lower to match my gear. And why would you say, that I don't care? I've explained to you over and over, why I pick YG as Guardian and why I believe YG is superior as Guardian.

    Also, you haven't actually clarified, that you're talking about Resto and Boomkin in your initial post. If you really wanted to clarify, you would have edited your very first post. Your entire reason to start this thread has nothing to do with wanting to debate, cause you're clearly only interested in your own opinion. Despite people with far more experience telling you, why they pick YG or that YG is far better in specific situations. Yet you still claim, that people picking YG, only does so, cause they don't know better.

    Who's really the fool here?

    - - - Updated - - -



    It is not. It's common sense, that your healers are supposed to keep you alive through x amount of damage on any given fight - if everything goes as planned. If you then decide to be bad and stand in fire and for some reason have zero Rage or too low RPS to use FR to heal yourself enough, then sure, pick Renewal.

    But please stop with the backwards thinking people. "My healers can't keep up and I stand in fire, thus I must pick Renewal to stay alive".

    I think "My healers will keep me up, I don't generally stand in fire and if I need extra healing, I use FR. That way I benefit the raid more with YG ticking non stop".
    Someone is overly defensive here lol ? Fapp is clearly referring to dps/ resto
    Druids throughout this entire 16 page thread. You can stop feeling so defensive that he made a post.

    And if your only purpose to continue in this post is to flame fapp and call him a fool, kindly refrain. It's not very useful. If you want to provide some input from the perspective of a dps/resto Druid, pls do so. Engaging in a flame war provides some entertainment but just makes you look oh so dumb and childish.
    Last edited by Mirri; 2013-12-15 at 05:25 AM.
    Mew!

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirri View Post
    Someone is overly defensive here lol ? Fapp is clearly referring to dps Druids throughout this entire 16 page thread. You can stop feeling so defensive that he made a post.
    Yeah I was interested in all specs opinion + experience with the talents. I clarified a couple times my pov was resto + balance to make my side a little more clear. I never specifically addressed Danishpsycho as being wrong or argued against his points either. There's only a couple guardians that posted, but outside of Paragons, as I've mentioned before I doubted that guadians would need anything extra since tanks are the healers main focus, and have very strong things on them already ie lifebloom, beacon, PWS, earth shield, etc. Danish can continue to be argumentative toward me all he wants. I was never really discussing anything with him in the first place, although I was initially interested in a guardians PoV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Additionally I updated the OP several days ago to clarify this, so it's absolutely hilarious that said I should have clarified it in the OP, because I already did...

    I'm not really interested in arguing the merits of the talents anymore because that was exhausted long ago, but leaving it open to read others' opinions and experiences

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Yeah I was interested in all specs opinion + experience with the talents. I clarified a couple times my pov was resto + balance to make my side a little more clear. I never specifically addressed Danishpsycho as being wrong or argued against his points either. There's only a couple guardians that posted, but outside of Paragons, as I've mentioned before I doubted that guadians would need anything extra since tanks are the healers main focus, and have very strong things on them already ie lifebloom, beacon, PWS, earth shield, etc. Danish can continue to be argumentative toward me all he wants. I was never really discussing anything with him in the first place, although I was initially interested in a guardians PoV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Additionally I updated the OP several days ago to clarify this, so it's absolutely hilarious that said I should have clarified it in the OP, because I already did...

    I'm not really interested in arguing the merits of the talents anymore because that was exhausted long ago, but leaving it open to read others' opinions and experiences
    Fair enough then, still don't understand his utterly hostile tone towards you though .. Did you do something to him or is he just a psychopath who just enjoys these kinds of poisonous encounters ? Meet quite a few such people in my workplace (a global investment bank) which Is why I'm curious.
    Mew!

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirri View Post
    Fair enough then, still don't understand his utterly hostile tone towards you though ..
    He's being hostile because fappasaurus has been rude through out the entire existence of this thread. That kind of tone and attitude brings on hostility sometimes lol
    Last edited by rated; 2013-12-16 at 05:06 PM.

  13. #313
    hostility breeds hostility, but a little levity goes a long way!

    All three talents are actually very good in accomplishing their specific purposes. +1 to Blizz.

  14. #314
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treeroy Jenkins View Post
    All three talents are actually very good in accomplishing their specific purposes. +1 to Blizz.
    Unless you're resto. Then Cenarion Ward is useless, because you'd do just as much healing without the cooldown restriction if you specced YG and used that GCD to cast Rejuvenation instead.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    Unless you're resto. Then Cenarion Ward is useless, because you'd do just as much healing without the cooldown restriction if you specced YG and used that GCD to cast Rejuvenation instead.
    Well, then that is simply not part of CWs specific purpose. Making all talents always useful for 4 different specs is kinda hard.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Making all talents always useful for 4 different specs is kinda hard.
    Yes, but it was also kind of the whole point of the new talent system in the first place. Kind of failed in that regard but that's another story lol

  17. #317
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    He's being hostile because fappasaurus has been rude through out the entire existence of this thread. That kind of tone and attitude brings on hostility sometimes lol

    Pretty much this.

  18. #318
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Well, then that is simply not part of CWs specific purpose. Making all talents always useful for 4 different specs is kinda hard.
    Sure. It's worth noting, though: if you're resto in PvE, only two of the talents in that tier are useful and one of those will be better on most fights. The only reason to spec Cenarion Ward as resto in PvE is because you don't realize how bad it is. Renewal can be somewhat useful on some spiky fights, but in most cases that tier can be summed up as "pick YG and move on" as PvE resto.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

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