I miss when Mana wasn't like Energy

[gorkos]

I miss when there wasn't some stupid restriction on mana. Just another way to water down the game.

Really ? ana restriction does simplify the game but to be honest there was only 1 time i really cared about my mana pool size and that was back in wrath. The way disc priests and rapture used to work, once you hit about 32000 mana Power ward shield would pay for its self. After that i stopped paying attention to how big it was.

[Jessicka]

Not really, they could just as well remove mana for a Destruction Warlock. The only resource that matters is Embers and the only purpose mana serves is that you can still cast something while you're out of Embers. But if they removed the mana cost from those abilities entirely you'd have exactly the same class you have now. It just doesn't matter.

I'm not sure how this is for a Demonology Warlock or Affliction Warlock, but they might be in a similar situation.

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As a Destruction Warlock I have 400% mana regeneration, so it's basically infinite. I'm not doing anything wrong. Mana management is completely non-existant, Ember management is.

If you're not managing you're mana, you're doing it wrong. You can play like that, but its not optimal. You should be pooling Embers for procs, cooldowns, etc. If you do that, you'll find mana is quite finite and that you'll be using Chaos Bolts just to let it regenerate.

Fun fact though, Destros mana bar was going to be replaced with a Fel Energy bar.

[Zardi]

Right now, Mana is unlimited for most DPS casters, so the only "resource" is GCD. No room for mistakes, no room for smart decisions, no room for pooling - either you press the right button every GCD, or you are wasting damage. Rather have Energy-esque Mana in that case, doesn't work so bad in Diablo

[Jessicka]

Mana management for DPS classes is near nonexistant if you're playing your class right.

Well duh. That's kind of the point.

[Dormie]

Really ? ana restriction does simplify the game but to be honest there was only 1 time i really cared about my mana pool size and that was back in wrath. The way disc priests and rapture used to work, once you hit about 32000 mana Power ward shield would pay for its self. After that i stopped paying attention to how big it was.

Still, everyone having the same amount of mana takes away flavor from the game and uniqueness between players.

[Syenite]

I'd love it if casters could still go OOM



Of course, I'm speaking from a PvP perspective of a DK, so...

Shadowpriests say hi...

[Dormie]

I think they should just get rid of the second little bar under the health bar for every class. Managing that bar is boring and tedious and they have now given everyone some other type of resource that is way more interesting and dynamic.

They'll never get rid of mana. It's pretty baseline in lore/past Warcraft games.

[TJ]

It was good how you could distinguish between the good and bad players because the bad ones would run out of mana, but I'm referring to healers. I agree in that perspective, but for caster dps, I don't think it's necessary.

[Deleted]

It was a trade off.
They should just get rid of mana altogether for casters it wouldn't make any difference except maybe for arcane at least as far as dealing damage is concerned.

Pretty much.

[Ealyssa]

Right now, Mana is unlimited for most DPS casters, so the only "resource" is GCD.

Quite wrong. While mana is nearly infinite (even if clearly NOT like energy outside destrolock). Nearly every caster spec now has a secondary ressource to manage.

warlock having demonice fury, soul shards or embers. Ele shaman having shield orbs, SP having shadow orbs, lazorchicken their balance bar. Even for mage, you can say that their proc are kind of "ressource managment".

And IMO it's a better way to play a caster rather than "ho I'm OOM doing my optimal rotation have to wand now". With this system you can always do something (while still being able to go OOM if doing really stupid things) but skills show by doing it right.

[ApeDosMil]

As a feral/rogue, energy management comes with the gameplay- not only just waiting to cast spells, but also pooling it for max dps. Granted, some rogue specs don't pool so much, but most of the time...

As a monk, I find that im always pushing one button or another all the time as WW. Theres almost never a GCD being unused.

As for the OP, Blizz decided a long time ago that mana-based classes should NOT have downtime due to mana in a PvE situation, unless its a healer (and even then, blizz has a certain mindframe for healer mana usage, to the point that the only time a healer goes oom is either A) incorrect spell usage, or B) 2 healing a fight that blizz designed as a 3 heal fight)

Most mana-using classes now have a secondary or even tertiary resource to keep an eye on. Eclipse, various warlock resources, ect.

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If you aren't keeping up VE, OR if you are having to off-heal, you will go oom as a shadow priests. Kinda silly, boomkins/ele shamans, the closest 2 to the priest design, naturally keep their mana up in a normal dps cycle, and can off-heal decently before running oom.

My main is a feral druid and I gotta say the energy return suuuucks compared to say subtlety rogue. Of course, ferals don't stack haste. That and ferals are really high in the dps charts, so I guess its just a small gripe.

My shadow priest only goes oom right now, like you said, while doing offheals and trying to shield myself.

[Deleted]

Ele/Enhance Shamans also don't really have to pay a massive amount of attention to their mana.

[Sparklebeard]

warlock having demonice fury, soul shards or embers. Ele shaman having shield orbs, SP having shadow orbs, lazorchicken their balance bar. Even for mage, you can say that their proc are kind of "ressource managment".

Mages have to manage mana anyway. Arcane's entire thing is about mana management, and frost and fire will OOM if you aren't IW/RoP/Evocating properly. And lord help you if you have to spellsteal often.

[PickleballAce]

Aff and Demo....especially Demo in execute phase, still have to Life Tap quite a bit.

[ipoststuff]

As a ret who does mostly pvp, I think mana is a big constraint. With full mana I cant cast 3 consecutive FoL's. And there are also other stuff that's heavy on mana like emancipate. I have to manage hopo and sometimes mana too.

[Envojus]

I don't think I should be talking, since I haven't played WoW during Cataclysm (just 5.0), but I kinda miss the TBC (Yeah, yeah, Nostalgia, blah blah blah, no need to point that out). Mana back then worked differently, it was more similar to Old Arcane Mages. You could pull off great DPS, but you would find yourself out of mana quickly. You had to find the perfect balance between DPS and Mana, and even then, at the end of progression bosses, you would find yourself squeezing every last bit of mana to burn down the boss. It was similar to Healers, you constantly had to raise the question of when you should include additional abilities in to your rotation.

Even Karazhan, a low tier raid. Remember those Elementals which would give you mana when you kill them? Killing them and standing in their mana dust was so satisfying. I remember even for warlocks, we would measure the Warlocks skill by the amount of Life Taps they have used. Shadow Priests were an even more interesting - Yes, they didn't pull off amazing DPS (Until SWP, with Haste Gear), but they compensated with regenerating mana for other classes, thus increasing their DPS.

This has allowed for some really interesting Boss Fights, and I think they should bring this kind of gameplay back. Imagine, a boss dropping puddles of Mana-burn instead of regular fire. When it's regular fire, it's either you die, doing 0 dps, or your Healer has to pick you up from the ground. Mana burn punishes players personally more. Oh, you want to stand in fire? Sure,you can do that, but don't be surprised seeing yourself slapping the boss with your pathetic little staff. Not that compelling, is it? I may be wrong, maybe mechanics like this still exist, but they sure added variety to the bosses and the raid.

[Aydinx2]

Ending a fight with maximum mana is often a sign you're not doing enough throughput

I can't believe you are a healer after reading that sentence.
If you end a fight with maximum mana and no deaths you're doing all the throughput you need.
Your job is to keep people alive, not end a fight with low mana.

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"Caster DPS should never have to worry about mana." - GC

I'm going to dive into a sceptic tank of excrement here and say he is wrong.
Caster DPS should have to worry about mana. It's literally their resource used for nearly all of their damage.
Back during Cata (pre 4.1) a DPS and also Healer had to controll their mana properly to get through a fight. It eliminated the scrubs from dungeons and forced them to gear up with quests and other methods before entering heroics.

If a Caster DPS shouldn't have to worry about mana, why have the resource in the first place? I guess that's why Destro warlocks have over 600% mana regen.

[Jessicka]

If a Caster DPS shouldn't have to worry about mana, why have the resource in the first place? I guess that's why Destro warlocks have over 600% mana regen.

First off there are two 'models' of design; global capped specs and resource capped specs. Melee classes, Hunters, and Destruction Warlocks are resource capped - they don't need to fill every global cooldown to maximise DPS. Global capped specs do.

Resource capped classes tend not to worry about running out of resources, instead they worry about capping them; be it Rage, Energy, Holy, or Runic Power (even Focus for Hunters). They can DPS forever, casters executing their normal DPS rotations can, and should too. Running out of mana because a fight dragged out too long should not be a concern for casters when it is not one for Melee/Hunters/Destruction Warlocks.

On Destruction Warlocks' mana specifically, it works like Energy; in simple terms you spend it to generate Embers, and use Embers through Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn to regenerate mana. You don't want to cap your mana bar, because it's a waste of resources for when you wish to move and need to use Fel Flame which is very expensive. The spec is designed to be resource capped, like melee DPS, rather than GCD capped as other casters are and as such needs to manage its resources more than any other caster to be able to DPS effectively. It is a very, very poor example to use of a spec for which mana doesn't matter and shows a complete lack of understanding of the subject. Perhaps they should have gone ahead and changed Destruction's Mana bar to a Fel Energy bar.

[Deleted]

Because BRB MANA every 5 min was fun

[Weightlifter]

I'm a ret paladin and while dpsing has no effect on my mana bar, casting 2 or 3 heals will cause me to go oom and also temporarily makes me unable to DPS.