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  1. #141
    Epic! Warlord Booty's Avatar
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    Elves are elves. The end. No new elves.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Because people in the same faction would race change to... the same faction? Look if WoW was still getting a large influx of new players I could see your concern, but as of now it's not really going to be funneling any significant number of potential Horde players to the Alliance. Faction balance is largely irrelevant to gameplay anyway, except for its effect on non-rated battleground queue times.
    Right ... Let say 25% of horde BE players switch sides. Now the Horde is less populated, raiding guild have more trouble staying afloat, cries of doom and gloom, more players switch because they can't find a guild, and the Horde faction enters a death spiral.

    And if you want to get technical Blood Elves are the imbalancing ones. Horde population is naturally lower than Alliance, the lore supports this and it is reflected in the number of players who choose the traditional Horde races.
    Lore doesn't matter.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Three by my count. In a row, at that. We don't need a fourth race with prominent animal parts. Alliance is losing its visual identity.

    Its visual identity is recolored/resized humans? Well, then I'm glad it's losing its visual identity then, because in that case, their visual identity is boring as shit.



    Arakkoa or ethereals are a thousand times better than humans with longer ears and blood elves with blue eyes. Get over it, Cmats20, Lumineus and (not here, but still) Northem. Your high elves, and your "Greenwood" are not happening. Maybe as a possible sub-race or whatever, but not as a fully fledged race. That would be gameplay suicide for Blizzard. Your 5-people huge fanbase does not constitute a 'huge fanbase of people who really badly want the high elves!".
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  4. #144
    Well it sure as fuck isn't random animal-men.

    That would be gameplay suicide for Blizzard.
    Oh please. They're stripping flying in relevant content FOREVER and relegating 10-man guilds to second class, and you think some people being underwhelmed with one race is going to even produce a noticeable effect by comparison? What if Horde got something just as "boring" like Mag'har or Amani?

    If we're going to go there I could claim giving Alliance yet another lame race with little to no story to be swept under the rug after the starting zone would be like shooting themselves in the foot with a bazooka after their failures with Draenei and Worgen, but the truth is LoreDev doesn't care and will continue to write about humans and elves. They had to pull an alternate reality out of their asses to give Draenei anything, and it's not even new lore, it's a retread.

    Your 5-people huge fanbase
    40% of the posters on this forum. So since only 13 people post on MMOC I guess the next time someone tries to bring up an opinion poll here to support their argument in favor of removing flight, for example, I can safely ignore their opinion?

    Right ... Let say 25% of horde BE players switch sides.
    Right. Because that many people are going to be willing to pay for a faction transfer and leave themselves guildless and friendless so they can change their eye color. Do you and rumaya even think about... logic when you claim that High Elves would devastate the Horde population? Orcs, Trolls, and Forsaken having massively better racials has a much more detrimental effect on Alliance raiding at a much higher and more important level. No one cares if random scrub guilds collapse. Top guilds in the world all faction change? Now people care.
    Last edited by Lumineus; 2013-12-05 at 04:01 PM.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Well it sure as fuck isn't random animal-men.


    Oh please. They're stripping flying in relevant content FOREVER
    Whoa there doom and gloom! Blizzard as well as many fans have long shouted that flying mounts was a bad idea. In Cataclysm they tried to make content specifically for flying - and then in MoP they scaled it back. In WoD they're scaling it back further. I for one, am glad that ground mounts are becoming relevant again. Why aren't you?

    you think some people being underwhelmed with one race is going to even produce a noticeable effect by comparison? What if Horde got something just as "boring" like Mag'har or Amani?
    So the solution to the Alliance getting a retinted Horde race, is to give the Horde more stuff? We're going back into waiting to hear the Alliance players scream unfairness. The only way to balance that out would be to make a new race for horde and alliance AND give out high elves for all. Do you honestly think Blizzard. Blizzard. Would ever make an expansion with an effective 3 new races? If they did that they'd say "Oh well we had to pull out our entire raid encounter design team to make this work, so don't expect any raids this expansion."

    If we're going to go there I could claim giving Alliance yet another lame race with little to no story to be swept under the rug after the starting zone would be like shooting themselves in the foot with a bazooka after their failures with Draenei and Worgen,
    Thank you for once again backing up and providing evidence that High Elves won't be playable. Adding that quote to the front page.

    They had to pull an alternate reality out of their asses to give Draenei anything, and it's not even new lore, it's a retread.
    I'd love to hear your opinions on the Scythe of Elune, Xoroth, Worgen, Draenei/Eredar, Ettins, Pandaria... god the list goes on and on about how many times they've rewritten lore. There is absolutely no difference between a retread and new lore.

    40% of the posters on this forum. So since only 13 people post on MMOC I guess the next time someone tries to bring up an opinion poll here to support their argument in favor of removing flight, for example, I can safely ignore their opinion?
    Yeah there's a reason why I didn't tack a poll onto this thread. I'd rather use hard facts instead of asking MMO-C's opinion, since right on the front page we have someone suggesting taking tanks out of LFR...


    Right. Because that many people are going to be willing to pay for a faction transfer and leave themselves guildless and friendless so they can change their eye color. Do you and rumaya even think about... logic when you claim that High Elves would devastate the Horde population? Orcs, Trolls, and Forsaken having massively better racials has a much more detrimental effect on Alliance raiding at a much higher and more important level. No one cares if random scrub guilds collapse. Top guilds in the world all faction change? Now people care.
    I think you massively over-estimate guild loyalty. I've watched top guilds on my server split, reform, faction change, split again, faction change again, reform, and then advertise over trade that they're trying to find their old friends again. I was an officer of a horde-side raiding guild on Wyrmrest Accord and after the guildmaster was offline for 29 days, he logged on, kicked everyone and sold the guild. We all knew who he was, he just wanted a quick gold before server changing. In my experience I've witnessed that guild loyalty is the rare thing. Extremely common on RP servers especially to have multiple characters across different themed guilds.
    It's about watching a company gleefully flinging away its goodwill with both hands and engaging in a pissing contest with its customers. It's about coyness, and a lack of straightforwardness. It's about rude, flip responses to valid questions, using third-party media instead of an official site. It's about a loss of trust, and the perception of untruthfulness. It's about an attitude that has begun to border on complacency and deceitfulness. -Roycroft the Human Rogue (Paraphrased)

  6. #146
    OK so riddle me this. If mercenary behavior as you describe it is the norm, then why do so many people still want playable High Elves on Alliance side? Clearly they are not willing to faction-change their characters. Are you accusing Alliance players of being cheapskates? Moreover you're putting eye color on a level with racial competitiveness and guild-hopping for better loot/achievements. That's kind of an absurd comparison.

    Thank you for once again backing up and providing evidence that High Elves won't be playable. Adding that quote to the front page.
    Are you even serious. My point was that High Elves already have more and better story than half the Alliance races. That's a point in their favor.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    OK so riddle me this. If mercenary behavior as you describe it is the norm, then why do so many people still want playable High Elves on Alliance side? Clearly they are not willing to faction-change their characters. Are you accusing Alliance players of being cheapskates? Moreover you're putting eye color on a level with racial competitiveness and guild-hopping for better loot/achievements. That's kind of an absurd comparison.


    Are you even serious. My point was that High Elves already have more and better story than half the Alliance races. That's a point in their favor.

    Yep, they are castrated blood elves. Blood elves that had everything interested stripped away from them, have unicorn mounts (slightly altered horses to go with a slightly altered blood elf race) and have become culturally-dead human bootlickers without any identity whatsoever. That's such a point in their favor! What a perfect story.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  8. #148
    High Overlord Fyersing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Why aren't you considering that a lot of people that want to play as High elves are Alliance already and would probably either make an alt or race change his Alliance character?
    This response intrigued me, so I created a thread to ask about it:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...w-players-from

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    It's not nonsense. Blizzard have admitted they don't like neutral races. And High Elves would look too similar to Blood Elves. On top of that, if the most played Horde race became a possibility for the Alliance the Horde would crumble and Blizzard doesn't want that. They want to maintain a balance.

    No, the OP is actually 100% right. It won't happen for these exact reasons.
    Can we get a source please? Not calling you a liar, I only saw positve comments about the neutral race thing.. as far as I remember.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  10. #150
    I'm kind of confused about what those statistics are supposed to prove. You should start your essay with a summary, which includes your hypothesis and major points. "High elves will not become playable as an Alliance race because X, Y and Z". I mean, I don't really give a shit one way or the other, but this really does not make any sense and your reasoning isn't clear.

    This is a more complicated issue than "people will switch faction because the faction won't matter". People might stay on their faction because their raiding guild is there. People might stay on their faction because they like their faction's story better. Any conclusions you might draw about transfer rates on this alone are relatively insignificant compared to dozens of other larger factions, and if people do transfer en masse, the reason is likely to be based in another, larger factor like racial balance or community. People are already moving between factions.

    Even hard transfers are difficult to pin down, particularly at the start of an expac, and with potential new systems making rerolling more viable. People play Blood Elves because they're pretty, or at least that's the popular consensus; when model updates hit, that may no longer be the case.

    You're also making the assumption that all standing Blood Elves will recieve a possible faction change, which I think is an erroneous one.
    Last edited by LilSaihah; 2013-12-05 at 05:48 PM.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  11. #151
    High Overlord Dezminion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    If the horde can't survive without the pretty elves then they don't deserve to survive.
    I heard, that John Blizzard himself said, that in return they would open Hu-maans and dorfs to the Horde aswell

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    I'm kind of confused about what those statistics are supposed to prove. You should start your essay with a summary, which includes your hypothesis and major points. "High elves will not become playable as an Alliance race because X, Y and Z". I mean, I don't really give a shit one way or the other, but this really does not make any sense and your reasoning isn't clear.
    thanks I'll do that.


    You're also making the assumption that all standing Blood Elves will recieve a possible faction change, which I think is an erroneous one.
    NO.

    My statement, is, was, and forever will be that if Blood Elves have a neutral start or Alliance gets high elves that the current blood elf population on the horde will shift anywhere from 5% to 7.5%. Thrall's balls why do people keep thinking I said that they'll all transfer?
    It's about watching a company gleefully flinging away its goodwill with both hands and engaging in a pissing contest with its customers. It's about coyness, and a lack of straightforwardness. It's about rude, flip responses to valid questions, using third-party media instead of an official site. It's about a loss of trust, and the perception of untruthfulness. It's about an attitude that has begun to border on complacency and deceitfulness. -Roycroft the Human Rogue (Paraphrased)

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Arakkoa or ethereals are a thousand times better than humans with longer ears and blood elves with blue eyes. Get over it, Cmats20, Lumineus and (not here, but still) Northem. Your high elves, and your "Greenwood" are not happening. Maybe as a possible sub-race or whatever, but not as a fully fledged race. That would be gameplay suicide for Blizzard. Your 5-people huge fanbase does not constitute a 'huge fanbase of people who really badly want the high elves!".
    Yes, because man-eating birds (Draenor version), and elementals who like money and clothe themselves with mummy garb is all the more appealing than an Alliance race that has actually been in WoW since Vanilla. e.e

    1. I never said High elves would even be playable.

    2. I have advocated High elves as a sub-race before.

    3. There is no conclusive evidence to prove why Blizzard wouldn't make High elves into a full race.

    4. Do you work for Blizzard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Potassiumgluconate View Post
    NO.

    My statement, is, was, and forever will be that if Blood Elves have a neutral start or Alliance gets high elves that the current blood elf population on the horde will shift anywhere from 5% to 7.5%. Thrall's balls why do people keep thinking I said that they'll all transfer?
    And again, so? Faction im/balance doesn't matter. We have cross-server zones, cross-server BGs, etc. Even flying mounts helps reduce world PvP as a whole. Blood elves were introduced during TBC to rebalance the Vanilla factions, yes. However, Vanilla was a long time ago; to argue factional im/balance matters to the point that we're bringing up the Blood elves is a huge misconception and is irrelevant to the present system of the game.

  14. #154
    The Lightbringer OzoAndIndi's Avatar
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    Why Blood Elves will NEVER be neutral, and High Elves will NEVER be alliance.
    Well yeah, if you want to go purely by what goes on on this side of the screen. Story-wise it might be reasonable, at least the neutral part, even if game-wise is isn't and unlikely to happen. Dunno if that much effort was needed to for a lecture to try to convince people though... people can want what they want, no harm in wanting something, even if it's unlikely.

  15. #155
    In Vanilla, it wasn't uncommon to see faction imbalance of 2:1 or 3:1 in favor of Alliance on many servers. There were a few Horde dominated servers, but most servers had player populations that drastically favored Alliance.

    No, I don't have concrete statistics that prove this information, but census sites back then repeatedly gave this kind of info. :/

  16. #156
    Scarab Lord Humbugged's Avatar
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    Blood Elves are, without a doubt, to the point of an immersion-breaking epidemic. I cannot play on an RP or RP-PvP server because the huge racial imbalance is just... wrong. More Blood Elves than Orcs in Orgrimmar? A group of 24 Blood Elves and the female Troll Druid doing SoO? Its ridiculous.

    Look to this forum for even further proof that Blood Elves are the spring rabbits of WoW. Theres a "Blood Elf" thread on both WoD Discussion's first page and General's first page. People Crave them, people cannot shut up about them, people reject playing Orcs, Taurens and Goblins and fill their character slots with nothing but Blood Elves. Threads about Blood Elves explode into lengthy debates and discussions that always culminate into how wrong Garithos was and who has the prettiest eye color. Blood Elves have the largest cult following I've ever seen in an MMO.

    So its no wonder people want more, more, more Blood Elves. Blood Elf variants, High Elves, Blood Elf Druids, Blood Elf Garrison buildings! Blood Elf, Blood Elf, Blood Elf! More hair styles ^_^ I wanna be a San'Layn <3333 Bring back the BC Alpha model Plzzzz

    Its sick.
    Last edited by Humbugged; 2013-12-06 at 06:47 AM.
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    - Manakin.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Its sick.
    To call someone sick for wanting something is sick. People want things; let them want it. It's not like they will get it (although that is for Blizz to decide).

  18. #158
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Right ... Let say 25% of horde BE players switch sides.
    Lets assume they did.

    25% of BElfs, 30% of the Horde population change sides.
    That is, 7.5% of the Horde population which is approx 53% of the player base changes sides
    That means the ratio goes from 53-47 in the Hordes favor to 54.5-45.5 in the Alliances favor.

    What is your point?

    Now the Horde is less populated, raiding guild have more trouble staying afloat, cries of doom and gloom, more players switch because they can't find a guild, and the Horde faction enters a death spiral.
    The Horde would be in the same position as the Alliance is right now.

    EJL

  19. #159
    I am Murloc! prwraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Its more interesting. If you want to play with your alliance friends just transfer, or reroll. You can't put forth a good argument as to why things could change, I bet.
    There's a solid reason for not having 2 factions. Namely in every expansion the writers shove lore down our throats about how we need to work together. In fact from an objective pov you'd think the writers were dead set on merging the two factions.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Right. Because that many people are going to be willing to pay for a faction transfer and leave themselves guildless and friendless so they can change their eye color. Do you and rumaya even think about... logic when you claim that High Elves would devastate the Horde population? Orcs, Trolls, and Forsaken having massively better racials has a much more detrimental effect on Alliance raiding at a much higher and more important level. No one cares if random scrub guilds collapse. Top guilds in the world all faction change? Now people care.
    You are overestimating how much players care about "guilds".

    Seriously, look at the number of "zombie" guilds made from the corpses of former raiding guilds, filled by players only in it for the perks.

    Players care a lot about their looks though, that's why BEs are so popular. Horde BE players might want a change of scenery, but find the Alliance models fugly in comparison, those players will switch given HE are introduced. Also new players and returning players who want to re-roll, a percentage of which who want to play a BE might go HE instead.

    The Alliance/Horde population ratios are barely balanced as it is, Blizzard isn't going to risk duplicating one of the most popular Horde races and effectively remove a tool for them to push up the Horde population.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Lets assume they did.

    25% of BElfs, 30% of the Horde population change sides.
    That is, 7.5% of the Horde population which is approx 53% of the player base changes sides
    That means the ratio goes from 53-47 in the Hordes favor to 54.5-45.5 in the Alliances favor.

    What is your point?



    The Horde would be in the same position as the Alliance is right now.

    EJL
    7% is A LOT. Given how PVE servers have low Horde populations, they can't afford to lose even 1%.

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