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  1. #81
    currently the RL of a semi casual guild, 10/14HC at the moment.

    In my group:

    Top tiers: Warlock , enhance shaman. hunter
    Between top and middle, depending on fight: rogue mage
    Middle tiers: Shadow Priest
    Bottom: DK

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    currently the RL of a semi casual guild, 10/14HC at the moment.

    In my group:

    Top tiers: Warlock , enhance shaman. hunter
    Between top and middle, depending on fight: rogue mage
    Middle tiers: Shadow Priest
    Bottom: DK
    Are your rogues undergeared?

  3. #83
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broggernaut View Post
    Are your rogues undergeared?
    The mage brings up questions too, but who actually finds their guild perfectly matches perceived class balance anyway?
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #84
    A good warlock simply cannot be beaten. Good single-target, good cleave, good aoe....

    Shadowburn snipe needs nerf.

    Best raid utility plus a tank's health pool. Really, how did they get this much love?

    I play a warlock alt, and I love the revamp they did, but jeez do they need a nerf.

  5. #85
    Good locks are tough to beat. Feral druid but their rotation with Dream of Cenarius is very clunky and takes a lot of work to get comfortable with.

  6. #86
    The strongest dps class right now is warlock, the weakest is probably deathknight.

    I'm a mage and am quite happy with the current state of the class btw. But warlocks are better from a pure numbers, and utility perspective (Well seems not with simcraft)... Mages are fairly easy to play too once you get used to the various little quirks.

    If you're a very good and skillful player, go feral druid. Else lock for top dps in practice.
    Last edited by Pyropanda; 2013-12-11 at 03:09 PM.

  7. #87
    warlocks of course (but seriously)......it's been that way for most of the expansion. Feral Druids are not far behind, but they're still behind.

  8. #88
    Stood in the Fire Kagecamia's Avatar
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    I will bookmark this thread in my favorites. Because it will be interesting what people say after warlocks get the inevitable nerf going into WoD.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Goondicker View Post
    A good warlock simply cannot be beaten. Good single-target, good cleave, good aoe....

    Shadowburn snipe needs nerf.

    Best raid utility plus a tank's health pool. Really, how did they get this much love?

    I play a warlock alt, and I love the revamp they did, but jeez do they need a nerf.
    Ok i will bite. Shadowburn snipe? Any class with an execute could do the same. Part of the reason why destro is so op is because of the fact they have a ranged execute.

    The reason why locks have more hp is because the fact we have to sacrifice our own hp for mana, just not in destro. Warlocks were designed as the tanky caster. Mages were designed as the elusive and fast moving caster. Find a happier middle ground between the two and you have no issue.

  9. #89
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagecamia View Post
    The reason why locks have more hp is because the fact we have to sacrifice our own hp for mana, just not in destro. Warlocks were designed as the tanky caster. Mages were designed as the elusive and fast moving caster. Find a happier middle ground between the two and you have no issue.
    It was PvP related last I heard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    http://i.imgur.com/MPFNhq1.gif

    Brewmasters > All other tanks
    Warlocks > All other DPS
    Disc Priests > All other healers
    QFT! /10char

  11. #91
    Warlocks are stupidly overpowered. Certain specs of certain other classes (like feral on single target) might be on par with Warlocks on certain fights but whereas they fall behind on the rest of the fights, Warlocks are top every single god damn fight.

    And I play a Warlock.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagecamia View Post
    Ok i will bite. Shadowburn snipe? Any class with an execute could do the same. Part of the reason why destro is so op is because of the fact they have a ranged execute.
    Pretty sure he means putting havoc on a healthy target (boss) and them spamming 4 ember's worth of shadowburn on a different low health target (add)

  13. #93
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    Warlocks, they have no weaknesses.

    They are strong in every situation and are basically invincible. You have incredibly strong single target, cleave and AoE. Two fairly dominate specs that you can jump between with little reforging/gemming to be done (mastery > haste works fairly seamlessly if you are affliction/destro) to have the most coverage of what's needed of you.

    When our warlocks don't get the 50% DR on heroic garrosh from an intermission, you can't really notice all that much. Meanwhile most other classes need externals in addition to clenching their butt cheeks together for 20-25 seconds.

    Rogues are like warlocks, but do less damage. However, just as invincible if not more invincible than a warlock.

    Rogue defensive mitigation needs to be toned down, but that model of mitigation should be how they treat most classes in the game to some degree. Feint being 50% AoE reduction (or 30% more to ALL damage if talented) is just way too strong, how it works is however a pretty good way to add some skill in PvE on the defensive front if the numbers are tuned correctly.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoogles View Post
    I always wondered what the point of the rogues dps was when a feral druid can best it and bring far more utility ?

    I think it puts a lot of pressure on rogues ?
    Rogues have better utility than ferals with smoke bomb and being able to soak stuff better. Other than that, yes a feral will beat a rogue on patchwerk fights, but there's almost no fights like that anymore. Most guilds probably want DPS that do more damage in real fights and not just have a high sim DPS.

    Why don't you check http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/ for the real story here. Even Malkorok has some adds benefiting rogues more.
    Last edited by Rioo; 2013-12-17 at 01:38 PM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioo View Post
    Why don't you check http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/ for the real story here. Even Malkorok has some adds benefiting rogues more.
    You are underestimating feral there. On Malkorok only CH/KR rogues are even close to beating ferals (and do so with one spec). The rest of rogue top ranks are at least 30k below the feral top ranks. Now consider the amount of people that play these specs and rogue still isn't pulling ahead, even though sampling bias is in their favor.
    On one of the most feral unfriendly fights, spoils of pandaria, only few combat rogues from (west) are beating ferals.

  16. #96
    As an elemental shaman I destroy the mana gained meters

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyronic View Post
    Sims are never a good idea of what is currently the best spec/class to play.

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/

    Current averages of top 100 parses per spec. Warlocks are very strong in single target/cleave rotations, Feral druids are extremely strong, mages are also strong.

    If you want pure single target, http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...14/60/default/.

    You guys should start monitoring the trend of how the first few to reply to a thread almost always has to be a nay sayer of some sort. Like this guy ^, "sims are never a good idea for that kind of info, so here's some other info that says the same thing."

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    You are underestimating feral there. On Malkorok only CH/KR rogues are even close to beating ferals (and do so with one spec). The rest of rogue top ranks are at least 30k below the feral top ranks. Now consider the amount of people that play these specs and rogue still isn't pulling ahead, even though sampling bias is in their favor.
    On one of the most feral unfriendly fights, spoils of pandaria, only few combat rogues from (west) are beating ferals.
    Yeah man, I'm not disputing that ferals are owning the meters on Malkorok. But with no adds there they would be even further ahead, like on the sim DPS meters, and that's the closest you'll get this tier. Ferals are not owning rogues on most fights.

  19. #99
    A lot of these conclusions simply ignore how the data they are actually looking at. I know it's been mentioned, but if you have x5 more warlocks playing destro then you do playing a boomkin, you are going to get higher top 100 parses. Forget fact as mentioned a lot of top 100 parses are bugs or simply cheesed.

    It's much better to look at the percentile data and you can get a "closer" sense of what a "top" person can do vs an average person. However this doesn't dismiss the fact that I'm sure there's differences in the skill base of a class. Feral, enhance, boomkins etc haven't always been in good spots. A lot of strong players moved to other specs.

    Also does it matter that much if a class is the highest single target spec any more. There are so few fights that pure single target dps matters anymore.

    As far specs like marks and arms or things like (affliction, sub etc) if there isn't a reason to play a spec on a fight your best players aren't going to play it and the numbers are going to look terrible. Forget best players anyone who is halfway serious won't play it, other then die hards or people who get off getting super high ranks. You need more data to get valid conclusions here and more data from the right type of players.

  20. #100
    Stood in the Fire
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    Warlocks hands down, also they have best survivability of all dpsers, rogues are good too but sacrifice alot of dps while needing to feint.

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