1. #1

    Heroic Thok 10man Advice / Tips please!

    Hey everyone, we have had our first week progressing on Thok and with Christmas coming next week, we won't see much progression on him until after so I thought i'd make a post and see if I can grab some advice of our current tries and hopefully get Thok down nice and quickly when we get another shot at him

    Our Roster Currently :-

    Tanks:

    Prot Pally (Me + Raid Leader)
    Blood DK
    BM Monk

    Healers:

    Holy Paladin
    Holy Priest
    Disc Priest

    DPS:

    Surv Hunter
    Destro Lock
    Ele Shaman (Has Resto OS)
    Shadow Priest
    Combat Rogue
    Assassination Rogue


    Now, as it's probably already been noticed, our DPS section is quite small (We're trying to recruit a Mage and/or Boomkin [with Resto OS] currently!) and consists of 2 rogues also.

    Our first issue that we found is that our healing setup is not a good setup at all for this fight in particular and lacks burst healing, so we've had to have our shaman go resto for this fight. That's also where our second issue starts, we lose one of our ranged DPS to heal but neither priest has a DPS spec to play so we ended up 4 healing the fight in most of our tries as I don't have a ranged DPS to actually sub in. Our Shadow Priest was also on holiday for the Monday raid so that didn't help matters! I've been solo tanking Thok after a few pulls trying to 2 tank it also and having a 3rd melee DPS really wasnt optimal at all, so i'm kind of stumped on what to do :P


    I would also like to know what cooldown rotation would be best suited also for a 3 healing setup (with the setup you suggest us using and actually have) as I personally know this is the way forward, not 4! However, our 4 healing setup rotation was:-

    4 - Ascendance / SLT (This was so we could have him BoP'd using this during bat phase in second P1)
    7 - My Hammer + Personals + Spirit Shell
    9 - Healing Tide Totem + Chisins Hammer
    12 - Devo Aura + HA + DF
    15 - My BoP On Chisin + GoAK + AW
    18 - My Aura + Divine Hymn
    20 - Barrier
    21 - Valdeths Smoke Bomb
    24 - Magraths Smoke Bomb

    And the fixate we was going up and down the main entrance / back of room, however we couldn't seem to get he fixates to fixate onto the right person for some reason!

    Our Logs - http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/271528/


    I know the setup isn't ideal at all, that's one of the reasons why i'm here asking for some advice Everyone in our team is open to criticism, so any tips to help improve anyone in particular will be greatly appreciated... However, if you have any concerns with someones performance, please offer suggestions or advice on how to improve it rather then just saying it's bad :P That helps no one!


    Thank you very much for reading

  2. #2
    Brewmaster
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    Ideally you want as much dps as you can get for this fight. If you can manage the dispells two healing should be suffice, not sure how much you are doing as I can't view that log for some reason. My group did it this week with two dk's a ret pally and two hunters as our dps group. None of which are affected by the interupt so they can just burn the boss in those phases knocking about 40% of his health off each phase. We were ending the kite phase as quickly as possible so our melee could get back on the boss.

    We alternate devo auras, Hand of protection and divine protection to allow our healers to keep healing through the interupt and try to extend that phase as long as possible.

    You can't control the fixate (as far as i am aware it is completely random except it will not target tanks) but we also run up the hall and to the back of the room with them. Personally I think this fight is a lot easier with a melee heavy group and short kite phases.

    We have never tried solo tanking but given the stacking debuff on the tanks unless your static phases are very quick I couldn't imagine it would work too well.

  3. #3
    http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/271528/

    Should take you to our calendar and it's the last 2 raids we did

    Your DPS must of been very very good though to knock of 40% each phase 1..! Did you kill after frozen cage?

  4. #4
    We are 1 tanking and 2healing it on progress right now. We take it to 17 stacks which is enough for our elemental shaman to have his ascendance and guidence up again for the bats which just smelt away when we do it rightly. We take him to 60-68% in the first phase depending on people being afk on the pull, warlock having lag and so on. Good pulls 60-62%. The hardest part so far seems to be the poison debuff and that atonement seems to act weird on it right now, which makes it harder to heal the kiters.

    Force your hunter to use widows on it before it eats a npc. Its like 12mil less healing it will do, adding up to 24-36mil during the fight.. from 3 gcds, which is just silly 'dps' :P Demo locks are quite nice on the fight aswell, the armor from metamorph + the absorb from tier 1 talent are just sweet. Your Priests should try using glyphed inner fire, As a disc priest i take the lowest dmg on about all our pulls.

    Our tank is a Prot pally, Doing a nice 300-400k dps and 70-180k hps helps out alot, even more so cause we are 2 healing as i mentioned. He is using arcinglight i believe when his vengance is high up there, which healed for a nice 6-8mil in the first stack phase. (Solo tanking it he does need a pain sup from me to survive the 4th or 5th stack of breath) The hunter should remove enrage on the add if the tank got stacks from the boss, otherwise healers watch out!

    Edit: Melee is not as bad as one should think, they are not bothered with the interrupt which makes them very strong on burning down the bats. We ran today:
    1 prot pally
    1 Resto shaman + 1 Disc priest
    1 Warlock + 1 Hunter + 1 Mage + 1 Elemental
    1 Deathknight + WW + Ret

    We ran with an extra Dk most of the night instead of the hunter as the hunter wasnt on till later. Needless to say it went a bit better with the hunter, but the dw frost dk did put out some sick dmg on the bats with that howling blast spam. The retribution could cleave aswell which lead to pretty sick aoe. The melee can dps the boss most of the kiting phases and then switch to the add or stand in some healing rain n shit if need be otherwise when the speed is getting too much.

    Learning how to force the fixate on to someone is really strong aswell but can be hard to pull off imo.
    Last edited by wrynil; 2013-12-18 at 01:04 AM.

  5. #5
    One-tank and 3-heal it with your main healers. If you are going to 4 heal, you need something like 28/15/22 to get it done I guess. Beside working on a rotation that works for you, I'd advise you to get to stack 18-20 or something and then STACK in a smoke bomb. Then pop the barrier followed by another smoke bomb. Bombs and Barrier are extremely strong while you're already stacking, we got 1 bomb and 1 barrier and get from 20 to 26 with that. This also prevents you from dying to 2 consecutive screeches, as if one buff drops you get phased and don't die. You have to overlap those buffs 1s. SPriest, Lock and Hunter provide nothing obv. If the Shaman is healing, use SLT in the stacking phase at the end and use Trans with Devo. Be sure to use mass dispells in the 2nd stacking phase. If the Shaman is DPS'ing, be sure to use Guidance for the bats - you can leave that phase around 6-7 stacks then already and get 15+ again in the 3rd on (26/7/15+ works fine).
    It's better to burn out than to fade away.

  6. #6
    We killed it the moment we stopped trying to go highstacks. (Then again if your healers can do it easy and you are not wiping in the first phase go for more).
    Just go 1tank / 3heal and 18-20stacks -> 5-8 stacks (kill bats fast) -> whatever to take him to 15% under and kill him before he kills you in the fixate phase.
    You can do this with 570~ raid ilvl so, try it out.

  7. #7
    Your main healer setup isn't too bad. Both holy pala and holy priest should be able to put out the required 500k HPS from stacks 10 to 25. However I never healed with either of those so I can't comment on what they should do. A disc priest can only do ~300k HPS, but that's not too bad because his shields are helping a lot. (A disc basically only uses PW:S, divine star, PoM and a bit atonement here.)
    Incoming damage is highest at 10-12 stacks, so you want to use your strongest CD there. After that, just chain CDs so that you have always something going. Barrier and smoke bomb are problematic because they don't cover both groups.
    If your healers cannot generate the output required to heal through 26 stacks, you might want to consider the alternative tactics (2 healers, low stacks).

    Kiting the boss simply in and out is not optimal. You can increase the dps uptime on the boss by kiting him around the room and only once to the door. Here is a video of me healing the boss:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uADDd5MA0mg

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Splatter View Post

    You can't control the fixate (as far as i am aware it is completely random except it will not target tanks) but we also run up the hall and to the back of the room with them. Personally I think this fight is a lot easier with a melee heavy group and short kite phases.
    You can control it, just stay in a 20m range of the Boss without getting too close, and have a few Players who can manage to get away from him at max distance. He wont fixate the Players close to him as long as there´s someone within a 25-40m Range from him, he will always pick those Players.

    We killed him last Night, 2 Healers (Holy Pala/Disc Priest), 1 Tank and had very short P1s (8-6-6). We opened the Yeti Cage first and killed him asap, so we had a Mastery for the Bats and a Guidance from the Shaman. The only tricky part for us was the P2 after the Bats, as the Poison was killing us. The solution for us was a 2nd Mass Dispell from our Shadow (we usually stay relatively close to each other during P2, so the MD worked out great here). Then just end the Fire Phase as soon as you can and burn him down.
    Last edited by Selyria; 2013-12-19 at 03:10 PM.

  9. #9
    Your main healer setup isn't too bad. Both holy pala and holy priest should be able to put out the required 500k HPS from stacks 10 to 25. However I never healed with either of those so I can't comment on what they should do. A disc priest can only do ~300k HPS, but that's not too bad because his shields are helping a lot. (A disc basically only uses PW:S, divine star, PoM and a bit atonement here.)
    Holy priests do garbage hps in this fight while disc does as much if not more than monks/paladins. They're absolutely awful in this fight, they're really bad in general but this one takes the cake for 10mans.

  10. #10
    3 healed it last night for our first kill. resto sham / r druid / mw monk -
    we did 28 stacks on pull, 5-6 stacks on bat door, and then 22~ or so on frost, and then killed him right there (he was at 13%~ coming out of frost phase. didn't even have to open the fire door.

    anyway, i'd go with the BrM or Prot Pally, prolly the pally since he just has more raid cds. get a nice burst on the pull, get up as many stacks as you can.
    poison door, we made it a rule that we'd just end it a few seconds after bats come out, then kill them + the jailer, and end that phase immediately (only kited to like 6-7 stacks on boss, to reduce poison dmg since we don't have mass dispels in our group). then, frost, just do the same thing as the pull, offensive cds, and everyone pushes up their defensive cd rotation like 2-4 stacks, depending on your group. then end it, kite him to 10-11 and open the fire door, or just kill it if hes sub 15%ish~

    consider that the jailer has 20m~ hp or so, so if the boss is at 30 or 40, it might be worth going for a burst on the boss opposed to the jailer and opening fire. we actually had a 1% wipe cause we went for the jailer instead of the boss on 1 pull.

    also, remember to put up a healing debuff (mortal wounds or w.e it is) on the boss before he goes in and eats the add at each door. we had our warrior or hunter do it. but its just something to keep in mind, helps in the long run.

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