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  1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by Das View Post
    You don't want to remove elitists, you want to remove dumbasses, big difference.
    >implying there is a difference

  2. #1002
    I am all for a better reporting tool(s) to help combat toxic players. An automated system is kind no for me as its not robust enough to deal with the issue imo.

  3. #1003
    Blademaster Volage's Avatar
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    This thread is veiled in ridiculous hypocrisy.

    So you are complaining about people complaining about the way you play, so you complain in return to the way they complain to not complain?

    This is pure flame bait. Surprised thread hasnt been locked or deleted.

  4. #1004
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I am all for a better reporting tool(s) to help combat toxic players. An automated system is kind no for me as its not robust enough to deal with the issue imo.
    The reporting system is more than enough, because a Toxic, elitist, jerk, all of these are subjective. The issue is that not enough care to use the report system. Tickets are not how you report people, singular reports are ignored, and even if you report somebody Blizzard doesn't have to punish them if they didn't do anything wrong. Telling the 15 people who died to Durumu LFR to stop sucking is not breaking the rules, sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alteiry View Post
    >implying there is a difference
    Elitism is a response to dumbasses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    *You suck and you should go suck somewhere else!*- Dem helpful pointers man.

    Constructive criticism has never been uttered by these so called "Good" players. It's always accusations, shaming and nastiness from them.
    Pointing out that you suck IS constructive. Think back to when you were new and somebody pointed out you were using the wrong talents or something. That you were bad. It is how people realize they are bad.

  5. #1005
    Looks at all these casuals crying. I guess ruining MMO genre wasn't enough for you already. In fact, give elitist a way to filter out casual properly.

  6. #1006
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominus89 View Post
    "LOOOOOOOL hpa is a FUCKING NOOOOOOB ALL KICK HIM LOOK AT HIS DPS!!!"
    How will that help someone to improve? Cause thats all I see in LFR, I never see someone coming with something constructive.
    As I've said before, many people can tell stories of how they got better to shut those "elitists" up.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    The reporting system is more than enough, because a Toxic, elitist, jerk, all of these are subjective. The issue is that not enough care to use the report system. Tickets are not how you report people, singular reports are ignored, and even if you report somebody Blizzard doesn't have to punish them if they didn't do anything wrong. Telling the 15 people who died to Durumu LFR to stop sucking is not breaking the rules, sorry.

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    Elitism is a response to dumbasses.
    No the reporting system is not enough.

    League of legends had shown how you can deal with toxic players. If someone gets enough reports over a certain time period they get brought up and someone can evaluate if this person needs to be punished etc.

    If someone tells 15 people to stop sucking hes pretty much being toxic and is harassing other players its breaking the rules sorry. Ofc that depends on how they word it.

    You guys fucking suck stop dieing on this boss for fuck sake. would be abuse. If they put "guys avoid the beam it kills you instantly if you do that we can down the boss" or something similar that's not abuse but advice.

  8. #1008
    Pit Lord Adoxe's Avatar
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    I'm semi-elitist, I have no idea if that kind of elitism exists so if it doesn't - I just invented it! But yes I agree they should be removed from BG's and Raids in some way.
    Formerly known as NonameXADX

    Thanks to Noxychu for the wonderful avatar!

  9. #1009
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Pointing out that you suck IS constructive. Think back to when you were new and somebody pointed out you were using the wrong talents or something. That you were bad. It is how people realize they are bad.
    You contradict yourself by pointing out something specific while you say random flaming is good.
    The thing you said to say is right. What you appear to mean is wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Friyn View Post
    Looks at all these casuals crying. I guess ruining MMO genre wasn't enough for you already. In fact, give elitist a way to filter out casual properly.
    You should have thought of that before you tried to go hardcore in a game that is considered casual by any good player, and other MMOs

    Edit:
    An shiny example of what i consider to be elitist is when we lack a tank. Sometimes i'm not in the mood to tank so i just go as dps. When we lack one i spec as tank, says i do so, get assist and drop myself in as main tank in the raid frames.
    All this goes on for a minute or two in the chat, so i'm sure that healers knows too. Then i make a readycheck, and a lot will say "not ready" because we lack a tank. I tell them that i'm tanking so we have 2 tanks, and pull.
    1 out of 3 times i get at least one person that goes screaming we're all idiots and we only have one tank, despite the chat being filled with me saying i'm going tank.
    Those are elitist. Those that think they're so good that they don't have to read, nor look at raidframes.
    Last edited by Terridon; 2013-12-06 at 01:00 PM.
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  10. #1010
    Epic! Lime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friyn View Post
    Looks at all these casuals crying. I guess ruining MMO genre wasn't enough for you already. In fact, give elitist a way to filter out casual properly.
    Yeah, damn those casuals for wanting to play a game stress free rather then have some supernerd giving them shit in the raid.

    Nobody here has a problem with elitists who say nothing.
    Nobody here has a problem with elitists who offer helpful advice.
    People here have a problem with vocal elitists putting everyone down.

    Personally, I've seen more LFRs fail due to people leaving because of an elitist attitude rather than wipes itself.

    If you tell the raid, "Hey, that fire is killing you guys, Try not to stand in it." you'll generally get a lot more players willing to listen to that than, "You fucking noobs suck, get out of the damn fire.". People will purposely do the latter just to spite you.
    Last edited by Lime; 2013-12-06 at 12:57 PM.

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  11. #1011
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    No the reporting system is not enough.

    League of legends had shown how you can deal with toxic players. If someone gets enough reports over a certain time period they get brought up and someone can evaluate if this person needs to be punished etc.

    If someone tells 15 people to stop sucking hes pretty much being toxic and is harassing other players its breaking the rules sorry. Ofc that depends on how they word it.

    You guys fucking suck stop dieing on this boss for fuck sake. would be abuse. If they put "guys avoid the beam it kills you instantly if you do that we can down the boss" or something similar that's not abuse but advice.
    I don't need to sugar coat everything honey. Sorry if an F word is too much for you, but the point remains the same. The report system DOES function in a way that requires multiple reports, but even if I'm reported, if I don't do anything wrong I'm not getting punished . There is nothing toxic about telling people to get better when they are dying repeatedly.

    You don't want to be held accountable for your actions. You want to Facebook through LFR and anybody that points out that you are doing something wrong is just being a jerk. The issue is lack of accountability in the first place and until YOU are prepare to kick those who will not try, don't start trying to kick those who aren't always positive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lime View Post
    Yeah, damn those casuals for wanting to play a game stress free rather then have some supernerd giving them shit in the raid.

    Nobody here has a problem with elitists who say nothing.
    Nobody here has a problem with elitists who offer helpful advice.
    People here have a problem with vocal elitists putting everyone down.

    Personally, I've seen more LFRs fail due to people leaving because of an elitist attitude rather than wipes itself.

    If you tell the raid, "Hey, that fire is killing you guys, Try not to stand in it." you'll generally get a lot more players willing to listen to that than, "You fucking noobs suck, get out of the damn fire.". People will purposely do the latter just to spite you.
    Get this through your head. Elite=\=Elitist. Elitism is having the expectations others be elite. It doesn't really matter how I tell you to get out of the fire, because if you weren't in the fire I wouldn't be saying anything in the first place.

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    I don't need to sugar coat everything honey. Sorry if an F word is too much for you, but the point remains the same. The report system DOES function in a way that requires multiple reports, but even if I'm reported, if I don't do anything wrong I'm not getting punished . There is nothing toxic about telling people to get better when they are dying repeatedly.

    You don't want to be held accountable for your actions. You want to Facebook through LFR and anybody that points out that you are doing something wrong is just being a jerk. The issue is lack of accountability in the first place and until YOU are prepare to kick those who will not try, don't start trying to kick those who aren't always positive.
    Has nothing to do with the cursing, and the guy you quoted never said so either. How about you read what you reply to?
    Everyone has so much to say
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  13. #1013
    Let's turn LFR into Nazi Germany?

  14. #1014
    Epic! Lime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Get this through your head. Elite=\=Elitist. Elitism is having the expectations others be elite. It doesn't really matter how I tell you to get out of the fire, because if you weren't in the fire I wouldn't be saying anything in the first place.
    Elitism is the act of feeling superior to others; aka exactly what I've been saying. I suggest you read a definition before shooting your mouth off. And yes it does matter. People are going to be less likely to follow when you're a dick.

    Would you rather say it cut and dry with no insults having less people do it out of spite?
    or
    Would you rather shit on people, have a lot of people die out of spite, and have the rest just trash talk you rather than focus on the encounter?

    For some people, you'll achieve the same thing either way. So why choose the option that makes the raid go even slower?

    Big thanks to Yoni for making this Avatar and Signature!

  15. #1015
    I'm an elitist. When half the raid die for the second time on Durumu beam I call them all noobs.

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    If someone sucks, you kick them. If they are undergeared gemmed, kick them. If they continue to wipe the group on purpose or for lack of trying, kick them. Be a man and use the kick feature. There is no excuse for people getting wildly pissed off and telling someone to uninstall and go kill them-self. It's people like you who are part of the problem. Whether you are an elitist or not, I cannot say. But being an asshole in a group rather than just removing the baddie definitely makes you part of the problem... not the solution. Next time be a man, be constructive, or vote kick him.
    "That player cannot be kicked for 4 hours."

    Yes, this is what appeared on my screen the first time ever i initiated a kick in LFR. Your point does not exist.

  17. #1017
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    I don't need to sugar coat everything honey. Sorry if an F word is too much for you, but the point remains the same. The report system DOES function in a way that requires multiple reports, but even if I'm reported, if I don't do anything wrong I'm not getting punished . There is nothing toxic about telling people to get better when they are dying repeatedly.

    You don't want to be held accountable for your actions. You want to Facebook through LFR and anybody that points out that you are doing something wrong is just being a jerk. The issue is lack of accountability in the first place and until YOU are prepare to kick those who will not try, don't start trying to kick those who aren't always positive.

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    Get this through your head. Elite=\=Elitist. Elitism is having the expectations others be elite. It doesn't really matter how I tell you to get out of the fire, because if you weren't in the fire I wouldn't be saying anything in the first place.
    You know nothing about me and assume a load of complete tripe.

    As the other poster above rightly stated its not about cursing its about what you are conveying. If you had actually read what I wrote you would understand this.

    You are correct if you are pointing out why someones wiping or dieing its not toxic. However the way in which you do so might be considered toxic (aka stop dieing to the fucking beam you moron: would be toxic where as "Guys avoid the fucking beam it kills you instantly and its why we wiped!" would not be toxic even though you cursed. There is a difference.

    I am a tank in LFR (or a healer on my alt) and I pretty much have to perform well or we wipe. You assume a lot of things about me (unless you refer to the general you rather than the specific you) which are flat out wrong. If we wiped I point out some reasons why we wiped. If theres a lot of people under 20kdps I will point it out and ask them to step it up (if we wiped due to enrage which ive seen). If it does not work I will initiate a vote kick to get rid of the people who are holding the rest of the raid back.

    I have also vote kicked some people who were utter dirt balls. I got flamed by some guy as we kicked his friend who was not only flaming everyone but DPSing as a healer and the healers were struggling. His friend said "its LFR ffs you fucking cunt" and some other things in whisper to me and in raid chat. Reminded him while its LFR we don't have to put up with crap from other players and if these guys are holding back 23 other people and not helping the raid they should perhaps rethink why they want to do group content.

    I am as elitist as they come but I don't stomp people in game over it. As frankly if someone acted a dick to me i'm less likely to listen to them.

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    You contradict yourself by pointing out something specific while you say random flaming is good.
    The thing you said to say is right. What you appear to mean is wrong

    You should have thought of that before you tried to go hardcore in a game that is considered casual by any good player, and other MMOs

    Edit:
    An shiny example of what i consider to be elitist is when we lack a tank. Sometimes i'm not in the mood to tank so i just go as dps. When we lack one i spec as tank, says i do so, get assist and drop myself in as main tank in the raid frames.
    All this goes on for a minute or two in the chat, so i'm sure that healers knows toło. Then i make a readycheck, and a lot will say "not ready" because we lack a tank. I tell them that i'm tanking so we have 2 tanks, and pull.
    1 out of 3 times i get at least one person that goes screaming we're all idiots and we only have one tank, despite the chat being filled with me saying i'm going tank.
    Those are elitist. Those that think they're so good that they don't have to read, nor look at raidframes.
    That's not elitist at all. Just stop slapping buzzwords on everything. He wasn't paying attention.

    If there WASN'T a dps who was going to tank and the group tried to go then he would have a point.

    Random flaming is not elitist. It's being a dick. However any criticism is sen as elitist. Elitism is expecting others to play to your skill level, sometime higher is elitist. Expecting people to play to an average skill level, is not. The way I look at it is, if everybody in the raid was at your skill level, would you down the boss? If yes then fine, your in a good place. If no then learn to play.

  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by dahri View Post
    I'm an elitist. When half the raid die for the second time on Durumu beam I call them all noobs.
    I'm a good player and i just ask for assist and mark myself and tell people to follow that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Waltzinblack View Post
    Let's turn LFR into Nazi Germany?
    About time that nazis got mentioned!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    That's not elitist at all. Just stop slapping buzzwords on everything. He wasn't paying attention.

    If there WASN'T a dps who was going to tank and the group tried to go then he would have a point.

    Random flaming is not elitist. It's being a dick. However any criticism is sen as elitist. Elitism is expecting others to play to your skill level, sometime higher is elitist. Expecting people to play to an average skill level, is not. The way I look at it is, if everybody in the raid was at your skill level, would you down the boss? If yes then fine, your in a good place. If no then learn to play.
    Who is he?
    The many people that doesn't read chat and i have to tell 10 times over i'm tanking, directly, and they still go "omg we only have one tank"?
    Yes. If there wasn't a tank he had a point. Problem is i make it very visible that i AM going to tank, and yet they never pay attention.
    And random flaming is what most of the elitist does. None of us have advocated against saying "you're doing this wrong". We're against obnoxious screaming without addressing the real issue. Often they will address the wrong issue too. People die on nazgrim, due to people not killing adds, and bringing shaman to the boss?
    "OMG LOW DPS KICK THEM!", about those that have 50% done to adds.

    Edit:
    It's not seen elitist to constructively telling people what is wrong. I rarely have trouble with that, but it might be because i'm a fluffy person that just have my way with telling people what to do without them hating me <3
    Last edited by Terridon; 2013-12-06 at 01:22 PM.
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    You know nothing about me and assume a load of complete tripe.

    As the other poster above rightly stated its not about cursing its about what you are conveying. If you had actually read what I wrote you would understand this.

    You are correct if you are pointing out why someones wiping or dieing its not toxic. However the way in which you do so might be considered toxic (aka stop dieing to the fucking beam you moron: would be toxic where as "Guys avoid the fucking beam it kills you instantly and its why we wiped!" would not be toxic even though you cursed. There is a difference.

    I am a tank in LFR (or a healer on my alt) and I pretty much have to perform well or we wipe. You assume a lot of things about me (unless you refer to the general you rather than the specific you) which are flat out wrong. If we wiped I point out some reasons why we wiped. If theres a lot of people under 20kdps I will point it out and ask them to step it up (if we wiped due to enrage which ive seen). If it does not work I will initiate a vote kick to get rid of the people who are holding the rest of the raid back.

    I have also vote kicked some people who were utter dirt balls. I got flamed by some guy as we kicked his friend who was not only flaming everyone but DPSing as a healer and the healers were struggling. His friend said "its LFR ffs you fucking cunt" and some other things in whisper to me and in raid chat. Reminded him while its LFR we don't have to put up with crap from other players and if these guys are holding back 23 other people and not helping the raid they should perhaps rethink why they want to do group content.
    Under 20k? Let me ask is 20k remotely close to what you can do? If everybody was at 20k would the boss die? No. 20k is still too low.

    Both player types do not contribute in a purely positive fashion. However, one acts reactively, the other does not. Nothing to react to? No people upset in chat. Fix the root of the issue instead of complaining about anybody who points it out.

    Noob, l2p, fail, all of these still suggest there is a skill issue. Calling others a cunt however, is in no way elitist. But if I'm not going baseless insults, and focus on stuff like skill issue, the focus shouldn't be on whether of not I say it nicely enough, but rather if my point has merit. Calling you a "fucking noob" has merit if you are displaying a skill issue. Is it nice? Not nessecarily, but the group shouldn't focus on how nicely I made a statement, but that there is a skill issue with somebody.

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