Remove Elitists From Raids and Battlegrounds

[Automatic]

Pretty sure the OP here is just someone going "Here...have some petrol...and a match...and some more matches...oh and some more petrol" and having a merry time laughing at the responses. Given that there's far too many types and skill levels to generalize, and any system of this ilk is far more likely to penalise someone who doesnt deserve it, add considerable time onto any run,( which I can't imagine blizzard wanting to do, since LFR is already such a stripped version of the raid to give the casuals a chance to see the instances) and generally be unreliable against the players you describe, who are simply a vocal minority.

Realistically, LFR is a powderkeg, if you choose to let the inevitable explosions bother you, then LFR isn't the place for you. I personally can't stand LFR, so I just don't do it. If you want to do it, and you're obviously aware of the players you might encounter, suck it up, let them be, maybe even try not standing in the fire and see if it helps. I can't see a way that playing badly is fun either, there's a massive difference between min-maxing and just mashing random buttons with no clue, for the majority of players neither of those ways is all that fun. But surely satisfaction has to come from at least playing your class well enough that anyone with a brain won't rage at you. And if when you're at least doing a couple of hundred K dps someone still rages at you, you can slap them on ignore and move on.

You're assuming only bad players dislike the horrible attitudes found in WoW (it isn't limited to LFR and Battlegrounds). I play well, I do decent dps, I do the correct tactics and I also think yelling expletives and derogatory terms at people who are performing badly or just don't understand the tactic is ruining lots of aspects of the game.

LFR is the place for me. I want to play through the raids without being tied down to a guild schedule. Is it really my problem that certain people can't express themselves with civility to other players, or is the issue an acceptance of abysmal behaviour?

[Deleted]

An insult is still an insult even if it's valid. Whether or not you personally agree (and generally, I don't), words with the same meaning can carry greater emotive weight. "Screw you" and "darn it" are two great examples of phrases that have the same meaning as others which are generally considered more obscene.

I don't think people should be offended by the word rather than the meaning.... but when an insulting term is used, it's generally assumed that the person using it is trying to be insulting, not give criticism.

Situation a) "Hey noob, you only did 50k dps on that pull, you need to learn how to play the game."
Likely result, regardless of who you're talking to: Anger or defensiveness, possibly hurt depending on sensitivity.
Likelihood that the person will be willing to accept advice, or try to improve themselves as a result of your statement: Very slim.

Situation b) "Hey, I noticed that your dps is well below what your character is capable of... would you be interested in any tips or advice?"
Likely result: Will vary based on the attitude and nature of who you're talking to. Could be good or bad.
Likelihood that the person will be willing to accept advice, or try to improve themselves as a result of your statement: Depends, but much better than in situation a.


So... what is your intent with making these statements? Do you want to help these players? Do you want them to improve themselves? Or do you just want to take your frustration and condescension out on them?? Because if you're going to purposefully use insulting terms and remain purposefully ignorant to how they'll be taken, even if you yourself would not take them that way, that last option is all people are going to see in your words.

I know you're debating with Giscoicus but I just wanna point one thing out here.

Option b...... Although it surely is the most polite way of approaching bad players, the LFR setting simply does not allow for such a scenario. If half the dps are doing 50k and you're wiping, what are you going to do?

Option a) Hey people, can you please stop being bad and do more dps?

Option b) Hey person 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 do you want me to give you tips or advice?

Option b just isn't possible, there's no time. And if you do take the time to explain and the person accepts your advice, he/she's most likely to ask you further questions. Sure, the 2 of you can go afk on trash and type. Do that between every boss pull, but are you really implying this is the way good players should act in LFR?

Cause that's like saying "I want peace all over the world" - ain't gonna happen. If a random player on my server whispers me to ask about Guardian Druids, I do take the time to talk to them. I've even answered a few short questions in LFR before. But to expect me to teach a noob how to play the class, how to spec, gem, reforge and what abilities he/she needs to use in what order, isn't something I can possibly do in between boss pulls in LFR.

So while I do agree, that things can be said in better ways than just "Noob l2p", option b is way too far fetched tbh. On top of that, as others have said, when you've wiped several times to the same boss with the same people dying to the same exact thing, you do tend to get annoyed and lose your patience. Cause what else can you do, other than telling them "Move from the beam, it will kill you" or stop afk'ing or please do more than 35k (I saw 7 dps on Norushen doing 35k give or take with 3 stacks of Determination!!!!).

What do you do, when said people still die to the beam, still do less than 50k dps, thus wiping to enrage? There's only so much you can expect from random players and there's only so much patience you can expect others to have, before they get upset tbh. It ain't cool having to wipe multiple times, cause people are too bad to understand "Move from the beam" or do dps that a lvl 85 can do......

[khalltusk]

I know you're debating with Giscoicus but I just wanna point one thing out here.

Option b...... Although it surely is the most polite way of approaching bad players, the LFR setting simply does not allow for such a scenario. If half the dps are doing 50k and you're wiping, what are you going to do?

Option a) Hey people, can you please stop being bad and do more dps?

Option b) Hey person 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 do you want me to give you tips or advice?

Option b just isn't possible, there's no time. And if you do take the time to explain and the person accepts your advice, he/she's most likely to ask you further questions. Sure, the 2 of you can go afk on trash and type. Do that between every boss pull, but are you really implying this is the way good players should act in LFR?

Cause that's like saying "I want peace all over the world" - ain't gonna happen. If a random player on my server whispers me to ask about Guardian Druids, I do take the time to talk to them. I've even answered a few short questions in LFR before. But to expect me to teach a noob how to play the class, how to spec, gem, reforge and what abilities he/she needs to use in what order, isn't something I can possibly do in between boss pulls in LFR.

So while I do agree, that things can be said in better ways than just "Noob l2p", option b is way too far fetched tbh. On top of that, as others have said, when you've wiped several times to the same boss with the same people dying to the same exact thing, you do tend to get annoyed and lose your patience. Cause what else can you do, other than telling them "Move from the beam, it will kill you" or stop afk'ing or please do more than 35k (I saw 7 dps on Norushen doing 35k give or take with 3 stacks of Determination!!!!).

What do you do, when said people still die to the beam, still do less than 50k dps, thus wiping to enrage? There's only so much you can expect from random players and there's only so much patience you can expect others to have, before they get upset tbh. It ain't cool having to wipe multiple times, cause people are too bad to understand "Move from the beam" or do dps that a lvl 85 can do......

If after a few failures the message does not sink in (I normally just do a generic can we do more DPS/avoid x y z please) and the same people are holding it back. Vote kicks appear. I've tried they have failed too many times and are now holding us as a group back. It has only happened a few times in fairness and we got a replacement(s) and the issue was resolved. Afkers get kicked left and right, and the flamers which do crop up if I get tired of their shit I will get a vote kick initiated.

I honestly think for things like LFR a personal proving grounds could be a good way of having a check to see if you can enter the raid. Think of it as an attunement. Make it account wide. If you pass the DPS proving grounds and have enough ilevel you can enter the LFR raid. You can set it at bronze as a base level. If you complete silver or gold you can get a bit more VP from your runs or something.

[Redpanda]

This whole thread makes me sad. Something like this will never make it in game. No point arguing over something that will never happen

[BrerBear]

Note to the OP from someone who generally agrees with you.
You could have avoided a lot of the problems in this thread by using a word like "jerks" instead of the overloaded term "elitists".
As a result, half of the posts here are thinking this is about good players vs. bad players instead of behavior.

[-Superman-]

Pretty sure the OP here is just someone going "Here...have some petrol...and a match...and some more matches...oh and some more petrol" and having a merry time laughing at the responses.

If you had more than 3 posts, or a notion to read the thread, you might have seen where my major concern is people acting like adults and handling situations like adults when dealing with bad players in BGs and LFR.

[Giscoicus]

You're assuming only bad players dislike the horrible attitudes found in WoW (it isn't limited to LFR and Battlegrounds). I play well, I do decent dps, I do the correct tactics and I also think yelling expletives and derogatory terms at people who are performing badly or just don't understand the tactic is ruining lots of aspects of the game.

LFR is the place for me. I want to play through the raids without being tied down to a guild schedule. Is it really my problem that certain people can't express themselves with civility to other players, or is the issue an acceptance of abysmal behaviour?

Who is targete by the players in question besides bad players? You did something to get them upset. Maybe you should look more the source of the problem. People don't get mad when everybody in a group is doing well.

It isn't very civil to not take the time to gem, enchant, open the spell book for your rotation and the dungeon journal for mechanics. It isn't civil to slack in group content. If everybody took the approach that some players, generally the one who get called out, take, then LFR would never finish. If nobody in the group genmed, enchanted, knew their class or the encounter then LFR groups would never be successful. Others are doing more work because you are slacking, and you don't deserve respect after you disrespect others. If you zone in I'm not going to be mad.

[jasdasm]

If you enjoy slow LFRs or bad Bgs.. why dont you spam trade? /Lfm bad players for a nice evening in LFR or PvP

i like playing with assholes since they are usually the good Players <3

[Coraulten]

Man if only there was a system to kick these people from LFR or if you could not get enough people to kick them then to ignore them.

[-Superman-]

Note to the OP from someone who generally agrees with you.
You could have avoided a lot of the problems in this thread by using a word like "jerks" instead of the overloaded term "elitists".
As a result, half of the posts here are thinking this is about good players vs. bad players instead of behavior.

You are correct. I assumed the people who would read it would comprehend it. I was wrong, save for a handful of you with critical thinking skills. People need to understand elite =/= elitist.

[Novx]

In the end, it is just a game. It should not matter that those of us who might prefer LFR don't do 150K in DPS

Sure...I am fine if someone doesn't want to do 150k dps but how about the mage doing 5k dps or the warrior doing 7k dps that has been autoattacking the entire fight - do we "elitists" have your permission to dislike those people?

[Coraulten]

You are correct. I assumed the people who would read it would comprehend it. I was wrong, save for a handful of you with critical thinking skills. People need to understand elite =/= elitist.

I like how you mention acting like an adult just above this and proceed to insult quite a few people in this thread

[khalltusk]

Who is targete by the players in question besides bad players? You did something to get them upset. Maybe you should look more the source of the problem. People don't get mad when everybody in a group is doing well.

It isn't very civil to not take the time to gem, enchant, open the spell book for your rotation and the dungeon journal for mechanics. It isn't civil to slack in group content. If everybody took the approach that some players, generally the one who get called out, take, then LFR would never finish. If nobody in the group genmed, enchanted, knew their class or the encounter then LFR groups would never be successful. Others are doing more work because you are slacking, and you don't deserve respect after you disrespect others. If you zone in I'm not going to be mad.

While I can agree people who don't gem (even if its not the most optimal gem as least get something half decent put in same for enchants) or put in a few glyphs (again doesnt have to be the most super best ever at least useful) and know how to play their class/role to a decent degree are a problem. That does not excuse being an ass however.

This whole you don't deserve respect if you disrespect others goes both ways. Moment you start flaming you lose all respect as well. Don't get me wrong I don't want to wipe in LFR just as much as anyone. I want a smooth run. As a tank I need to know what to do and ensure I don't fuck up. I get just as frustrated when I see slack DPS #5 trolloling his way to victory. I just won't smack talk them down about it. I may point out that X person is taking the piss however.

btw the quy you quoted was not talking about him self being flamed/called out on bad performance. You may want to re-read his post. He was meaning hes a good player and dislikes it when he sees other people flaming "bads" or casuals etc.

[-Superman-]

Sure...I am fine if someone doesn't want to do 150k dps but how about the mage doing 5k dps or the warrior doing 7k dps that has been autoattacking the entire fight - do we "elitists" have your permission to dislike those people?

You don't need my permission. Had you read my other posts you would see I don't care if they get called out for being low, or AFK, or any other reason. But be an adult about it. If you go from saying nothing to telling them to go kill themselves, they are not the problem... your anger is the problem. Call people out, but be adult about it.

- - - Updated - - -

I like how you mention acting like an adult just above this and proceed to insult quite a few people in this thread

I've insulted no one. I made a broad statement. Those who take it as an insult do so at their own peril.

[urasim]

You are correct. I assumed the people who would read it would comprehend it. I was wrong, save for a handful of you with critical thinking skills. People need to understand elite =/= elitist.

Critical thinking would be knowing that Elitist does not equal jerk.

There are many people that pointed out that elitist (someone who thinks they are better than everyone) doesn't mean they actually call others out or is a jerk at all.

[Coraulten]

I've insulted no one. I made a broad statement. Those who take it as an insult do so at their own peril.

"if you did not interpret what i said how i wanted you to then you do not have critical thinking skills"

Clearly you did not insult anyone.

[therayeffect]

Yelling at people actually gets them to listen though and get shit done. How come we can't instead kick all the bad people who don't know how to listen or speak english or play the game? Why do I have to play with bad players? I can do this too. It seems more like you're talking about people who just want to cause trouble though like trolls and not people who are actually good and want to win. I'm all for getting rid of toxic players but sadly if we got rid of every troll and terrible player, there'd be like 100,000 people playing WoW.

[khalltusk]

Critical thinking would be knowing that Elitist does not equal jerk.

There are many people that pointed out that elitist (someone who thinks they are better than everyone) doesn't mean they actually call others out or is a jerk at all.

Maybe they are Elitist Jerks? *grabs flame proof cloak* TAXI!

[Louis CK]

I've insulted no one. I made a broad statement. Those who take it as an insult do so at their own peril.

Heh, sounds like a good cop out for getting by in LFR.

"You guys should kill yourselves."

"the fuck bro?!"

"Oh, I was just making a broad statement, if you take it as an insult, do so at your own peril."

Also, it's the job of the communicator to communicate one's message correctly to one's audience, not the audience's job to "interpret" what you're "really trying to say."

Just a tip

[-Superman-]

Critical thinking would be knowing that Elitist does not equal jerk.

There are many people that pointed out that elitist (someone who thinks they are better than everyone) doesn't mean they actually call others out or is a jerk at all.

People who think they are better than others are usually jerks.