Future: Mythic 5-Mans

[Sparklebeard]

Ideally, for me, hard trash and hard bosses would be the best but I know that won't happen as clearing the instances would take too much time then.

If the difficulty and rewards are scaled up more towards raiding (maybe LFR level rewards?), then it'd be perfectly fine for the dungeon to be more than a 10 minute speed run. If you're running the content as your content, and not just ezmode runs for Valor caps then I don't think the GOGOGOGO mentality really needs to be entertained. That can be in the queueable "heroic" dungeon content if people want to run that for VP etc. We don't expect an LFR to take 20 minutes, so I don't think we should expect an additional dungeon difficulty to be speed runs either.

tl;dr stuff.

[Arbs]

Rift did this with Master Modes that dropped T1 raid quality gear in the original expansion. It wasn't available in the dungeon finder and they weren't terribly hard. The only hard part was finding a group to actually do them.

Well if it ends up in WoW, I don't think it will be hard to find people.

[dlhak]

I am a huge fan of dungeons I miss how heroics used to be on BC it was less dramatic then, we could socialize better, have fun netter, and gear up faster, now with LFR you queue for half an hour, wipe three times on trash, then healers or tanks leave after the first boss, wow has become less social, sadly.

[Caribald]

Sounds like a great idea. Imagine 5.4 released dungeons with trash mobs hitting for 300k on tanks. Gotta CC or get owned. Interrupts needed and other mechanics which means you have to do more than have a pulse. Flex level drops or so, and each only doable once a day.

[Deleted]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Model-for-WoD

Same thing was discussed there.

Great idea.

Get a poll going to get some sort of numbers as to who is for/against the idea.

[shoc]

If Blizzard plans on releasing new dungeons + heroics with each big content patch, then we could expect that they would follow the Lich King Heroic dungeons style that would be reasonably difficult on release and would drop entry level raid loot.

That would be your 'mythic' 5 mans for you.

[jadedfuture]

They won't do this because the Hour of Twilight dungeons (and 4.3 in general) was so badly taken by the community of cunts who bitch on forums all day about difficulty and raid length, etc.

Relatively simple if you ask me.

Also, as seen with how fucking HUGE the first raid teir is (18 bosses), I think it's pretty safe to assume they're taking the MoP route with larger raids and more world content as catch-up content.

[Kerath]

I would love something like this. I always enjoyed 5 man content in the past and enjoyed running the tougher heroics with guildies.
I would much rather take on 'Mythic' difficulty 5 man content with guidies than venture into LFR, as an avenue to gearing up (and just running them for fun/gearing alts later on in the expansion).

[Deleted]

The idea is lovely. I would really want the 5 mans to be challenging atleast to some degree not again like hte WotLK steamrolls. I especialy love the idea of mythic dungeon gear = lfr gear.

Then if done right it might become actualy a easy tool to "kill" LFR. So people can focus more on flex(normal in WoD). Yet again if by any chance (God please!) Blizzard decide to try it, they have to remmeber the lessons from Cataclysm dungeons on release and also we have to remmeber that this should be like HC dungeon from the old days before LFD was implemented - You should be able to run mythic dungeon only once a day AND also to run to it like the old days (again )
If these options are made right it can become the most fun tool to gear alt for raid etc

[Deleted]

Wouldn't you just return to the period where every instance group was basically pre-divined by its mechanics? I'm all for a more difficult smaller group content, but not when it leads us back to the point where basically every group exists out of a duo of mages, the FOTM healer and tank plus one random, preferably another mage (And, yes, I play a mage, it was %$&^ awesome to always have a group spot in whatever heroic, but it sucks for everyone else).

[Gilian]

Honestly, I would like 5 man mythic dungeons, but I would prefer to see them as a legitimate progression option rather than for catch up. I miss Cataclysm launch heroics, but they were totally unsuited for random group content. Mythic 5 mans that require premade groups as a progression option from heroics would get me very very interested. I'm a heroic raider, but my true love in the game is (or was) 5 man content. MoP 5 mans weren't engaging enough for me, and I wasn't a huge fan of the Challenge mode timed aspect. I'd prefer a slower dungeon run that requires coordination, and wiping on bosses to learn them. I may well be in the minority though.

I'll clarify, of course, that I in no way advocate removing the easier modes for random grouping. I think they're very important to the game, I'm merely wanting additional difficulty modes.

I agree. I don't see myself going through MoP-difficulty-like "heroics" in WoD again. If they want to cater to players who want to sit back and not care about performance (or anyone else who does not want harder 5 mans) they can but please do not force everyone else to do the same content, it was way too boring .

[Kryos]

I would like that. I enjoyed doing the challenge modes to complete my
wolf-on-a-wolf-in-a-wolf-wearing-a-wolf-with-two-wolf-pets design

and if that set had good stats and was not transmog-only, all the better.
The only problem is to balance this so it's not unfair to certain classes.

[Wrathonia]

You may have seen me posting about this in the other thread but I'm all for a mythic mode that mirrors challenge mode except no timer, mob/boss health at +15/20% and granting more or less the same loot table as current-tier Raid Finder. Personally, I think that if players are less skilled they should run Raid Finder. Greater skilled players could run these and stay out of each other's way more or less. You could also reward the mythic modes a little more by making the drops upgrade-able gear and LFR with no capability to upgrade. Or extra valor or both.

I'm not so much against TI handing out what amounts to bad gear at this point in the expansion although I understand those who are offended by it. I don't think it much matters at this point since I tend to think that most of the TI gear went to alts anyway.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with that. And I understand what they were trying to do with TI, but I still think it was a bad idea to toss mediocre gear at players unwilling to work for it just so people could get into the latest LFR to continue not trying. It just perpetuates the attitude that people don't have to do anything to see content. No effort really needs to be expended to be entertained. For a game like this, that is a terrible attitude to foster and promote.

[Markluzz]

Wouldn't you just return to the period where every instance group was basically pre-divined by its mechanics? I'm all for a more difficult smaller group content, but not when it leads us back to the point where basically every group exists out of a duo of mages, the FOTM healer and tank plus one random, preferably another mage (And, yes, I play a mage, it was %$&^ awesome to always have a group spot in whatever heroic, but it sucks for everyone else).

Classes are more balanced now than in BC so this wouldn't be a problem.

[Yimereh]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with that. And I understand what they were trying to do with TI, but I still think it was a bad idea to toss mediocre gear at players unwilling to work for it just so people could get into the latest LFR to continue not trying. It just perpetuates the attitude that people don't have to do anything to see content. No effort really needs to be expended to be entertained. For a game like this, that is a terrible attitude to foster and promote.

I agree, all it does is set a precedent for gear. In all honesty Blizzard could probably strongly help their own cause if they simply made welfare epics blue even if they maintained the same stats. I understand that people say "it's just a colour" but people are impressionable. When the precedent of purple is rewarded for anything then how are new players expected to establish a logical mentality about the higher ranked purples. Games are supposed to be fun and giving players the purple precedent causes them to subconsciously assume that all purples are earned in this matter. Then of course reality bites them in the ass and they find a place to complain. If blues were the "freebie" precedent then people would have a much better grasp on the time, skill and co-ordination commitment that a purple should demand.

[Fyersing]

If you want something to be updated and/or included in the end-game scene, all you need to do is make them wildly unpopular. This way Blizzard can wait until maximum amounts of dislike for said feature/mechanic exist before they force it on you.


Tell your friends to stop doing dungeons and scenarios. In fact, tell them they shouldn't even ever be in a group of less than 20. Show Blizzard how bad we dislike 5-man content. Show them we hate it more than terrorists and Communism. Then, after all of that, they'll add it. This is how we got dailies and 20-mans.

[Deleted]

No need for Mythic 5-Mans cause its allready in the game and called - wait for it - Challenger Mode!

[Wrathonia]

No need for Mythic 5-Mans cause its allready in the game and called - wait for it - Challenger Mode!

You messed up the name and it doesn't fill the gap. You haven't bothered to read any of our discussion. Kindly go away.

[Yimereh]

No need for Mythic 5-Mans cause its allready in the game and called - wait for it - Challenger Mode!

Ya challenge mode isn't exactly what most of us were thinking when we wanted challenging heroics. Some people enjoy racing a clock and that is awesome, good for them they should be satisfied. I enjoy them too but I also enjoy chilling with a couple of close friends from real life and progressing through difficult content at a casual pace. I like taking the time to talk about strategies and coordinating cooldowns while having some fun conversation while also being appropriately rewarded. There isn't anything challenging about 5-man content or scenario content right now and challenge mode is more of a mini game that you do when you aren't doing progression content.

I'm currently expected to group up with Real life friends, some internet friends and some randoms and co-exist constructively. It is awesome when it works because you feel an overall sense of accomplishment but it is really frustrating when you get some bad apples.

Burning crusade was far from balanced but you and your friends could take your time gearing up for some Karazhan, PvP(while also unbalanced) wasn't as nuclear as it is today in my opinion and with a coordinated group of even the wrong classes you could have fun progressing towards some better PvP gear.

I don't believe in nostalgia I was having fun in Vanilla, BC and Wotlk and I knew how poorly balanced the game was and I have continued to believe that Blizzard is taking steps towards that but many of the simple things that made WoW fun have been changed in favour of homogenization. Flex is the first breathe of fresh air I have experienced in this game for quite awhile and I sincerely hope Blizzard takes it further and brings back small group progression because I really prefer playing with people I truly know. Don't get me wrong I do enjoy meeting people as well but right now it feels very forced.

[wow2011]

Neat idea but has some problems.
1. Hard to balance.
Certain CCs are better than other CCs and some classes will be able to cheese an instance because of class mechanics. This is bound to happen in a 5man.

2. Reward structure/difficulty tuning.
What kind of gear should it drop? LFR level or worse? If it is worse than people (in general) won't run it and will run LFR instead. If it is better than people will just ignore LFR. If the items are same/similar then difficulty tuning kicks in. If 5man is easier than LFR then people will only run 5man. If 5man is harder than people (in general) will just run LFR.

3. Lockouts
Do you put a daily/weekly lock on mythic 5man or no lock at all? WoW population tends to have some wierd culture of "my guild is forcing me to do this" or "I am forced to run it 24/7 to farm gear". So there will be lots of QQ if there is no lockouts. With a daily lock, people might still complain about "forced to run it everyday". With a weekly lock, it would be difficult to find players to run together.

4. Dungeon length tuning
What should be the ideal length for a mythic 5man? Keep in mind the length of a 5man would mean people's availability on it.

All these are potential issues that come with a mythic 5man as progression tool. I think the idea is great if all these problems can be resolved beforehand. But until then, I am voting no since the current heroic/raid is working fine. Blizzard just need to give us new heroics here and there.