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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    Sylvanas just missed a great opportunity...

    Let's take a look at the moment when, at the end of SoO, Garrosh is finally defeated. The upper city is in chaos, Darkspear revolutionaries and Alliance forces are fighting with Kor'kron all over the place. The Underhold is conquered by the combined forces of both factions. Garrosh himself is shackled in his underground throne room, all major Alliance and Horde leaders are presented there, and the fate of Garrosh and the Horde are to be decided. At this moment, the Horde is really vulnerable - one precise blow could destroy it. The only reason why the Horde still stands is Varian's kindness - if it was not for him, but for Jaina to decide, there would be no Horde anymore.

    Now i may understand Varian, but what about Sylvanas? This could be her "finest hour".

    Imagine this:

    All of the Alliance and Horde leaders + Thrall are gathered in one room. Then, all of a sudden, the room becomes filled with Blight and all of them are instantly killed. Meanwhile, the Forsaken reanimate all the fresh corpses and take over the Underhold. Then, with all the chaos and confusion on the streets of Orgrimmar, they manage to take over the entire city. By slaughtering and reanimating everyone who was taking part in SoO, the Forsaken significantly bolster their ranks, which allows them to begin the conquest of Kalimdor.

    Eventually, both the Alliance and remnants of the Horde will regroup and stand against the new "Lich Queen", but it will take some time. Horde forces are shattered and separated, and without leadership they won't be able to pose any serious threat for Sylvanas. Not on Kalimdor, at least. As for the Alliance, their reaction will be significantly slowed down by the sudden lack of leadership (which may lead to the serious infighting or even a civil war), as well as by the fact that the majority of their forces are located on other continent.

    However, any Forsaken presence in the Eastern Kingdoms is doomed (combined forces of the Alliance and the Ashen Verdict will obliterate them), so Sylvanas would have to temporarily abandon that place. But if by doing so Sylvanas gets the entire Kalimdor for the Forsaken, then i bet she would be more than willing to pay the price.


    What do you guys think of such an outcome? Is it possible that Sylvanas just missed a great opportunity for her people to become one of the greatest powers of Azeroth? I understand that such an event can't occur in WoW environment, but if we would be playing WC4 instead of WoW, i would certainly expect something like that to happen.
    Last edited by Trollokdamus; 2013-12-06 at 02:14 AM.

  2. #2
    I disagree with your assumption that the Alliance would simply be able to destroy the entire Horde leadership. The numbers were virtually the same so I'm sure the Alliance present would have been mostly wiped out as well even if they got first shot. Nor do I think Sylvanas would have been able to wipe out the entire room simply with Blight. Thrall is a pretty powerful healer and I'm sure Jaina coulda ported the Alliance out the second she sensed trouble. Some would have died, but I doubt if she could have gotten them all. Plus I'm not sure if it's been established who the Val'kyr can raise. Obviously they can raise humans and elves but not sure about the other races.

    Assuming they can raise anyone, a more plausible scenario would have been Sylvanas waiting for Thrall to kill Garrosh. Then she raises him and during the confusion she uses Blight. This would buy her enough time to target the two capable of stopping her...Jaina and Thrall. Varian denied her that opportunity. I think a very cool aside during the cinematic would have been a quick focus on Sylvanas tensing as Thrall raises Doomhammer. A purple glow begins to grow around her clenched fist as she prepares to summon the Val'kyr to raise Garrosh. Then as Varian stops Thrall, Sylvanas relaxes and sets her resentful gaze on the Alliance king. As a cruel smile plays across her lips Sylvanas whispers to the room, "...someday..."
    Last edited by budong; 2013-12-06 at 02:36 AM.

  3. #3
    Would have been epic! This might be too dark though, even for her. That seems like a big jump from just trying to raise a group of humans. If Sylvanas didn't have such a loyal fan following, this might have been more likely.

  4. #4
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
    However, any Forsaken presence in the Eastern Kingdoms is doomed (combined forces of the Alliance and the Ashen Verdict will obliterate them), so Sylvanas would have to temporarily abandon that place.
    How so? Without Varian the One-shotter and Jaina the Walking Disaster all armies are helpless. And Ashen Verdict doesn't even exist anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by budong View Post
    A purple glow begins to grow around her clenched fist as she prepares to summon the Val'kyr to raise Garrosh.
    Val'kyrs can only raise humans. That was the reason why 7th Legion managed to push the Forsaken back from Gilneas - they used non-human (mostly dwarven) regiments.

    And why is it always about Sylvanas? How 'bout Baine launching his scheme, killing everyone in the room with log traps, and finally starting his march for world domination, with hamburger in one hand and a blood-stained log with pieces of squeezed racial leaders still stuck in it, in another?
    Last edited by Haven; 2013-12-06 at 03:06 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  5. #5
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Well, seems like she isn't evil after all.
    But how would she have gotten that Blight in the room, undetected by the defending and invading army?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Try to boil everything down to a negative catch phrase all you want. We're still going to spend countless hours making Warlords of Draenor the most epic expansion possible.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Well, seems like she isn't evil after all.
    But how would she have gotten that Blight in the room, undetected by the defending and invading army?
    Sneak a snuke in her snizz.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #7
    That has a mistake on it... Sylvanas doesnt have a Helm of Domination, even if she raised everyone (she can only raise humans btw). She couldnt have controled them, and now think about a very angry Varyan Wrynn with a Lo'gosh hate inside and now being an eternal undead hating Sylvanas for just doing what the Lich King did to her...

    She would instadie.

  8. #8
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Sneak a snuke in her snizz.
    Are we really going to start with fart-jokes? :P
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Try to boil everything down to a negative catch phrase all you want. We're still going to spend countless hours making Warlords of Draenor the most epic expansion possible.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Arrashi's Avatar
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    Wait, why would she, after just seeing results of morality bukkake on garrosh, try to unite everyone against herself ? What exactly could she gain (unless she enjoys such... activities) ?

  10. #10
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
    Let's take a look at the moment when, at the end of SoO, Garrosh is finally defeated. The upper city is in chaos, Darkspear revolutionaries and Alliance forces are fighting with Kor'kron all over the place. The Underhold is conquered by the combined forces of both factions. Garrosh himself is shackled in his underground throne room, all major Alliance and Horde leaders are presented there, and the fate of Garrosh and the Horde are to be decided. At this moment, the Horde is really vulnerable - one precise blow could destroy it. The only reason why the Horde still stands is Varian's kindness - if it was not for him, but for Jaina to decide, there would be no Horde anymore.

    Now i may understand Varian, but what about Sylvanas? This could be her "finest hour".
    Well she still needs the horde for something

  11. #11
    You make some poor assumptions there....

    You assume that Sylvanas wants to take over the world. And even if she did, that she would act in such a obvious and direct way, and foolishly making an enemy of everyone all at once.

    How would Sylvanas have gotten so much blight into Orgrimmar? How could she have foreseen an opportunity to use it? Why would she jeopardize her and her people's membership in the Horde by being so brazen?

  12. #12
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    morality bukkake on garrosh
    I laughed like an idiot, almost to tears
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  13. #13
    I agree, I don't think domination is on the agenda for her at the moment. All she's been concerned about is (so far as we've seen) is making sure the Forsaken aren't going to die out, she wants her race to survive and seeing as they can't reproduce she has to use other methods to attain that goal. These methods are seen as immoral an unnatural to everyone else which is why they want to keep an eye on her. She was really pissed off at Garrosh in Cataclysm, so I kind of like the idea that she may have wanted to ressurect him for her own purposes as a humiliating kind of revenge.

    Just my two pence worth.
    The Northrend Chronicles- An Ongoing Warcraft Fanfiction

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    How so? Without Varian the One-shotter and Jaina the Walking Disaster all armies are helpless. And Ashen Verdict doesn't even exist anymore.

    Val'kyrs can only raise humans. That was the reason why 7th Legion managed to push the Forsaken back from Gilneas - they used non-human (mostly dwarven) regiments.

    And why is it always about Sylvanas? How 'bout Baine launching his scheme, killing everyone in the room with log traps, and finally starting his march for world domination, with hamburger in one hand and a blood-stained log with pieces of squeezed racial leaders still stuck in it, in another?
    ? I thought it was specifically Worgen that the Val'kyr couldn't raise....I don't remember anywhere stating that specifically, it's just they never show up(ahem, bliz doesn't have any 'undead dwarf' models, and they'd be a minority anyways, much like half elves are practically non-existant ingame, and other 'racial' combinations). Unless it specifically says it on an alliance side quest, I have no idea what you're talking about :P.

    The reason the Val'kyr can't raise the Worgen is all I can think of, and that's cause of the 'Curse of the Worgen' preventing them from getting the 'curse of undeath'.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilfayt View Post
    ? I thought it was specifically Worgen that the Val'kyr couldn't raise....I don't remember anywhere stating that specifically, it's just they never show up(ahem, bliz doesn't have any 'undead dwarf' models, and they'd be a minority anyways, much like half elves are practically non-existant ingame, and other 'racial' combinations). Unless it specifically says it on an alliance side quest, I have no idea what you're talking about :P.

    The reason the Val'kyr can't raise the Worgen is all I can think of, and that's cause of the 'Curse of the Worgen' preventing them from getting the 'curse of undeath'.
    That's not true though since the Lich King could reanimate worgen.

    My theory is simply that either the val'kyr are not familiar enough with the worgen and other races that aren't descendents of the vrykul to reanimate them or that because of the magical nature of the curse, are not powerful enough to reanimate worgen. Or, perhaps, a combination of the two.

    I don't believe there's been any explanation as to why the val'kyr can't reanimate the worgen. Simply such being stated as a fact.

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilfayt View Post
    ? I thought it was specifically Worgen that the Val'kyr couldn't raise....I don't remember anywhere stating that specifically, it's just they never show up(ahem, bliz doesn't have any 'undead dwarf' models, and they'd be a minority anyways, much like half elves are practically non-existant ingame, and other 'racial' combinations). Unless it specifically says it on an alliance side quest, I have no idea what you're talking about :P.

    The reason the Val'kyr can't raise the Worgen is all I can think of, and that's cause of the 'Curse of the Worgen' preventing them from getting the 'curse of undeath'.
    http://wowpedia.org/Quest:Lessons_in_Fear

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mister Madgod View Post
    I don't believe there's been any explanation as to why the val'kyr can't reanimate the worgen. Simply such being stated as a fact.
    There's been a theory stating that Val'kyr can reanimate only humans due to their ancestry. Humans are descendants of vrykul, after all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Why are humans who drink the blood of worgen unable to be raised as Forsaken?
    Not only are the Val'kyr less powerful than the Lich King when it comes to raising the undead, but the worgen curse also makes raising them into undeath far more difficult than it is for normal humans. The worgen curse has roots in both the Emerald Dream (through the wolf Ancient, Goldrinn) and the holy power of the goddess Elune. In addition, those worgen who imbibe the waters of Tal'doren—through the ritual they undergo to maintain balance between the worgen curse and their humanity—have a further resistance to the corruption of undeath. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  18. #18
    Glad to have been proven wrong. I forgot that was an ask CDev question.

  19. #19
    I don't think Sylvannas is in any position to do anything right now or else she would have done it already. At the moment the Alliance has the upper hand. If Sylvannas decided to attack First of all none of the Horde leaders would be left alive in Orgrimmar and there wouldn't be any Orgrimmar as probably it would be demolished by Jaina's Thunder King powers. After that she wouldn't have any problem mana bombing the rest of the forsaken or probably the rest of the Horde. Attacking the Alliance at that time would give a reason for the rest of the Alliance leaders to follow Jaina's plan and finish of the Horde by any means nessesary.

    Also a second reason is that most neutral factions in the game have been attacked by the Horde and they pretty much helped the Alliance in this war. If that attack happened be sure that they would help finish of that threat.

  20. #20
    no that's stupid. You can say also that Theron missed opportunity because he could detonate mana bomb and kill everyone. She isn't Lich Queen now, all she cares about is safe Forsaken. She isn't a genocidal maniac.

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