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  1. #1

    BiS Trinkets for Survial - Icy Veins

    Hey!

    Today i was going over my Bis list again since i didnt really have anything to do. but one thing i noticed is that on Icy Vein's Bis List they said you should be using (Harmons Talisman + Ticking Ebon Detonator) as Survival. is this the best choice ? i've always thought Assurance was the best trinket?

    I would love an why answer if possible.


    - Kayown

  2. #2
    Hi Kayown. Try using search function next time you ask question. This was asked here many times already.

    For SV Haromm + Assurance is best. For BM it's Assurance + Ebon.

    As to why, simple math proven by sims.

  3. #3
    Thank you. i did try the search function but i guess i didnt look close enough. Thank you

  4. #4
    I have no idea why AoC wont be in BiS list for any hunter :/

    100% BA uptime (Means more LnL), ~3.5 min stampede, 7 sec deterrence. So, how come AoC is not in BiS list?

  5. #5
    Yeah that's...extremely strange. AoC is BiS for every spec and then your second one varies based on spec.

    Anyway, as ishyhunt said, it's AoC + Haromm's for SV and AoC + TED for BM, very consistently and reproducibly.

  6. #6
    Are you guys really confused about Icy Veins being incorrect about something?

  7. #7
    most websites that has a guide or bis list for a class in wow is generally wrong and made by some normal raider.

    the only time I use a website like icyveins is when I'm leveling an alt and want a general idea of what abilities to use if I never played the class before or in a long while.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Are you guys really confused about Icy Veins being incorrect about something?
    It would be reasonable for an uninformed hunter to assume it is correct when it has the name of a high end raiding guild's hunter on each guides home page as having "approved" it. That said, it may have been a while since it's been reviewed.
    Main - Spirál - Hunter - 11/14 10H SoO - 13/13 10H ToT (Retired)
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  9. #9
    kennyloggins.
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  10. #10
    The Patient Kuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishyhunt View Post

    For SV Haromm + Assurance is best. For BM it's Assurance + Ebon.

    As to why, simple math proven by sims.
    The reason why Haromm is better than Ebon for SV is because what you want to do as Survival is spam Explosive Shot and since the proc of Ebon is going down all the time damage wise you actually lose DPS with your Explosive Shots.
    I think even Thunderforged Renataki would be better than normal mode version of Ebon since it's reversed way around so you can play your explosive shots so they hit bigger and bigger till the proc wears off.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuul View Post
    The reason why Haromm is better than Ebon for SV is because what you want to do as Survival is spam Explosive Shot and since the proc of Ebon is going down all the time damage wise you actually lose DPS with your Explosive Shots.
    I think even Thunderforged Renataki would be better than normal mode version of Ebon since it's reversed way around so you can play your explosive shots so they hit bigger and bigger till the proc wears off.
    What on earth are you talking about? This is not how it works.

    Haromm's is better because Mastery is really bad for SV. It's that simple.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    The only reason Haromm's isn't BiS for BM is due to how much of the damage comes from the pet as BM, and the pet can't trigger the multistrike effect of Haromm's.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by anjan011 View Post
    I have no idea why AoC wont be in BiS list for any hunter :/

    100% BA uptime (Means more LnL), ~3.5 min stampede, 7 sec deterrence. So, how come AoC is not in BiS list?
    sites like IV and MaxDps (ugh, why did I even think about that last one...) use a general stat weight to calculate benefits. this usually happens without user input (because they analyse every single 437+ item), and as such it does not really account for the weirder effects like the CDR from AoC. and even if they have some math for it, they don't sim, but just calculate that 49% CDR is 49% extra damage from the affected spell, which is a gross oversimplification.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuul View Post
    since the proc of Ebon is going down all the time damage wise you actually lose DPS with your Explosive Shots.
    Your phrasing mighta been a little off but if this statement taken as is, is incorrect, the dot stacks, you don't lose dps.

    And as you correctly stated; SV spams ES, therefore you wont be delaying it until high stacks of renaktais or low stacks of ebon and will come down to the RNG of the procs and your LnL.

    Ebon isn't an awful trinket, mastery isnt "a really bad stat", all secondaries are rather close. It just so happens that multistrike > secondary stats, almost to the point that haromms is barely behind ebon for BM. (And you can't time ebon like you could with renaktais for those big KC's)

    As stated: Assurance BiS for all specs.

  15. #15
    You are looking this from wrong perspective. Question isn't why ted isn't bis for survival, it's why harom isn't bis for BM. And reason for that is, multistrike procs of either your auto shots, or arcane shots and neither of those hit that hard.

  16. #16
    I'm not really sure how AoC is that great for MM.

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Zaxio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuul View Post
    The reason why Haromm is better than Ebon for SV is because what you want to do as Survival is spam Explosive Shot and since the proc of Ebon is going down all the time damage wise you actually lose DPS with your Explosive Shots.
    I think even Thunderforged Renataki would be better than normal mode version of Ebon since it's reversed way around so you can play your explosive shots so they hit bigger and bigger till the proc wears off.
    I dint like ebon for BM even that decresive buff just screw you first of all you already lose some tick before your react on the proc...sadly i disenchanted mine Retantaki but i think to get him back for BM playing its becomes pretty powerfull when you have 4pts and push BW when trinket procs
    I also think to tryout Ebon with haromm for SVV well i will lose some Cd on stampede yes wont have BA 100% of the time but that trinket can increase your dps in miles ahead if you catch his proc at start pulls
    Last edited by Zaxio; 2013-12-07 at 03:31 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    The only reason Haromm's isn't BiS for BM is due to how much of the damage comes from the pet as BM, and the pet can't trigger the multistrike effect of Haromm's.
    This is the only correct response in this thread.

    Haromm's would be BiS from BM too, if and only if it procced off your pet's damage. It does not. And since 60% of BM's damage is from the pet....Haromm's loses a lot of its value in that spec.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuul View Post
    The reason why Haromm is better than Ebon for SV is because what you want to do as Survival is spam Explosive Shot and since the proc of Ebon is going down all the time damage wise you actually lose DPS with your Explosive Shots.
    Might also be the fact that the damage proc has nearly triple the value of the mastery on TEB for survival, but hey it's just speculations here amirite?

  20. #20
    Sorry about the mistake, it should be fixed. If you notice errors in the guide then you can always shoot me a PM, though I won't guarantee a direct response unless I agree that what you're saying is indeed an error. A lot of things people think are wrong are just semi-controversial, and I go with what I think is right. Sometimes people are also just plain wrong, me included.

    So yeah, in the future PM me if you think something is wrong. I don't really read the IV comments section much, and a PM will send me an email, which is something I check religiously. Basically, if you ever resort to dismissing the IV guide as terrible or something, realize you can help to make it better.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

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