Just one old guy's opinion

[NoShelter]

I'm a pre-bc player with almost 19k achievement points. I quit before MoP, and have recently returned. Not bragging (nothing to brag about anyway), just listing credentials.

The reason I quit is because my friends slowly disappeared, and not many new friends were made due to the importance of guilds being diminished since BC.

In BC, guilds were strong. Players didn't hop around as much. You needed your guild for attunements, for dungeon groups, for raids, for all those crafting mats and gems that were collected by the raid leader. Not to mention all those dkp points you had stored up! Remember when somebody leaving guild was a big deal? Remember the great friends we made, who weren't disposable at the drop of a hat? Remember the epic feel of killing Illidan with the same people you killed Ragnaros with?

I do. That feeling is what made vanilla and BC great. That feeling is what's missing now.

In my humble (and probably unpopular) opinion, sub numbers are down to pre-bc levels because all the nifty changes actually hurt the game rather than helped it. Not all changes were bad, I think blizz has done a great job with class balance (maybe not warriors in pvp) in this xpac. It is time to undo the "quality of life" changes that weakened guilds in general.

My wish-list for WoD is this:

1.) Attunements for EVERY raid.

2.) lfr/lfd GONE, and replaced with a blizz version of cross-realm OQ.

3.) queueing and porting to dungeons GONE. You must fly to the stone, and fight to hold it.

4.) built-in optional dkp bank system for guild and raid leaders to use

5.) world PvP: it isn't something you manufacture with special zones and cute rewards. It is something that players make, not developers. No amount of mounts or trinkets will bring players out of the city to kill eachother. It happens when theres no other choice. You want to raid tonight? Then your raid must fight your way into the door.


Edit for clarification:

This definitely isn't a QQ "wow sucks now" post at all. I love this game and play it daily. I'm also not advocating rolling the clock back to 2006. The suggestions I'm making are about combining the game as it is now with SOME elements from the past, in order to strengthen guilds and social interactions, with the purpose of improving the experience for everybody down the line.

[Ägallar]

The current generation doesn't like the 'work for it' aspect of MMO-RPG's. They'll make a list of reasons why you're an idiot, say that you 'just need to move on', etc. I agree with your sentiment, but it is what it is at this point.

[Nights]

rofl get rdy to be flamed soon when all wotlk+ players will come, good old days i agree

[Instructor Soki]

FF11's community is still strong - small, but strong - because you can't solo everything.
Group play, and assistance with attunements, is very important.

I want it to be that way (to a lesser degree) with WoW, again.

[Deleted]

In BC, guilds were strong. Players didn't hop around as much.

You seem to be remembering things wrong....

[Smeeh]

Boy am i glad someone finally made this thread, on a topic that is so rarely discussed on these boards.

[MerinPally]

"old guy" no you aren't. If you were "old" IRL which in this game means 40-50 then you'd understand the idea of a "product life cycle" and this thread wouldn't exist. What are you, like mid 20s most likely? Yeah...

[Deleted]

you'd understand the idea of a "product life cycle"

Because obviously people decide if the game is fun for them to play based on "product life cycle".

[Blaschnack]

In BC, guilds were strong. Players didn't hop around as much. You needed your guild for attunements, for dungeon groups, for raids, for all those crafting mats and gems that were collected by the raid leader.

I dunno, I experienced it just the other way around. People who were attuned would get poached by further progressed guilds all the time, leading to quite a few poor guilds that ended up attuning new recruits just to lose em again, not being able to progress. Eventually even the good players that were with this guild for a long time would abandon this guild, because running the same tier of content that you completed months ago just to attune more people for current content that get poached by more successful guilds over and over is just extremely frustrating.

As for your point 3), summoning has been in the game since day 1, so you would actually take something away that was already there since the glorious glorious days of vanilla (nevermind that I had to use 2 goddamn soulshard bags back then and farm shit mobs for shards every raid, let's not even mention giving every member of the raid their own single healthstone).

And for point 4) I'd like to state that in my opinion everything else than loot council is suboptimal anyway (but that's completely subjective, and I can understand if other people might think differently).

[Ägallar]

So much condescension in this post. By it, I assume that you meant to take the age stance? I think it might be negated somewhat by arguing on a video game forum, on this here internet, however.

Age doesn't mean as much as you think: when it comes to being passionate about something, we never act our age.

[Deleted]

The current generation doesn't like the 'work for it' aspect of MMO-RPG's. They'll make a list of reasons why you're an idiot, say that you 'just need to move on', etc. I agree with your sentiment, but it is what it is at this point.

You guys remind me of my father. He says that if you don't work with your hands, you don't really work. Working on a computer is not real work.

[MerinPally]

Because obviously people decide if the game is fun for them to play based on "product life cycle".

That's not my point at all. My point is that people are arguing that subs are below TBC level because of how the game has changed. That is most likely not the case. Personally I don't care what he wants to make the game fun for him, but the argument is just shite.

[bison91]

I'm a pre-bc player with almost 19k achievement points. I quit before MoP, and have recently returned. Not bragging (nothing to brag about anyway), just listing credentials.

The reason I quit is because my friends slowly disappeared, and not many new friends were made due to the importance of guilds being diminished since BC.

In BC, guilds were strong. Players didn't hop around as much. You needed your guild for attunements, for dungeon groups, for raids, for all those crafting mats and gems that were collected by the raid leader. Not to mention all those dkp points you had stored up! Remember when somebody leaving guild was a big deal? Remember the great friends we made, who weren't disposable at the drop of a hat? Remember the epic feel of killing Illidan with the same people you killed Ragnaros with?

I do. That feeling is what made vanilla and BC great. That feeling is what's missing now.

In my humble (and probably unpopular) opinion, sub numbers are down to pre-bc levels because all the nifty changes actually hurt the game rather than helped it. Not all changes were bad, I think blizz has done a great job with class balance (maybe not warriors in pvp) in this xpac. It is time to undo the "quality of life" changes that weakened guilds in general.

My wish-list for WoD is this:

1.) Attunements for EVERY raid.

2.) lfr/lfd GONE, and replaced with a blizz version of cross-realm OQ.

3.) queueing and porting to dungeons GONE. You must fly to the stone, and fight to hold it.

4.) built-in optional dkp bank system for guild and raid leaders to use

5.) world PvP: it isn't something you manufacture with special zones and cute rewards. It is something that players make, not developers. No amount of mounts or trinkets will bring players out of the city to kill eachother. It happens when theres no other choice. You want to raid tonight? Then your raid must fight your way into the door.

These things are what your old-school players want.

how i like vanila and BC...i dont want to return to it coz we passed it...we grew up...and i dont want to look for guild or spammin LFG blabla...

[ACES]

Attuments are fine and interesting, especially if they provide additional rewards. There's nothing wrong with LFD/LFR, no reason to get rid of them. Why would you want to make it harder to get to dungeons? A DKP tool would be cool if you guild uses that broken system, but there are addons for that. PvP and raiding should have no interplay.

[Deleted]

People leaving guild because they have ppl offering 2 more bosses is now common, nobody cares anymore of people, now people are just pawns.

The community's change can't be undo or they will loose x-millions subs and gain 100k subs, or less. Blizzard changed the way to play because:
THEY WERE BOUGHT BY ACTIVISION, and big companys wont loose money to make the game better.

The game can still be good but now, is commercial, and this ain't new, if stupid people have to think more than "I click on queue, lets afk in dungeon/lfr, lold" they will loose money because the stupids are legion and will un-sub.
I started playing in 'tlk and loved the naxx period because you still had to make your groups to get to heroday or other stuff, such as quests marked "group of 5" that actually needed at least 5 mans to be done, at ICC-Update, the raid was good, but the whole dungeon system was crap.

[Soulstainer]

"old guy" no you aren't. If you were "old" IRL which in this game means 40-50 then you'd understand the idea of a "product life cycle" and this thread wouldn't exist. What are you, like mid 20s most likely? Yeah...

I'm 38 and I understand product life cycle just fine. Doesn't mean I have to like the freebie system that WoW is. I unlike the OP have believed WoW made this the system since Vanillia though it was far more difficult back then from what I have heard and read ( I played a game where your rep meant everything being EQ when WoW came out). Personally I hate the leveling system since its all single player and if you do que for an instance no-one really talks anyways. I loath lfr not for the system but because of the players and a lack of a real system for punishing people who afk/que up with no gems/enchants/use system flaws to come in under geared.

What I think WoW really needs is the ignore system to actually do something. First make it completely ignore the battle.net account not just a toon. Secondly make it so if you and people you have ignored are in the que at the same time you don't get them in your group. After a few months of this if they are bad enough they will spend hours in the que and un-able to get into a group because so many people have them on ignore. I understand this wouldn't be popular with the young crowd who want instant gratification and such but something really does need to be done about the community as a whole.

There are several issues in the game itself but the community as a whole needs an overhaul imo.

[Ägallar]

You guys remind me of my father. He says that if you don't work with your hands, you don't really work. Working on a computer is not real work.

I never said it was 'real work', nor did I suggest it. Working toward something, however, has been a staple in MMO-RPG's, and some people like it. I'm tolerant of Poke-WoW, why is it so difficult to be tolerant of a grind?

[Raquel]

Remenber this everyone that is 13 years old play wow like crazy till aroun 16 /17 then they realize that girls and sex is way better then when they are around 23/25 they realize sex is just sex and girls break ur heart anyway so why cant we play wow every nigth:P so is normal to be bashed by a random kid that thinks you should just log in and be instant lvl 90 600 itlvl or else u are a noob that dont apreciate the epic feeling standing in STV before a ZG raid and see lowies just crying for ur well effort time spending epics.... i am totaly with u GIVE BACK THE EPIC FEELING!!!!!

[Dasffion]

So you want them to make changes that will get back some "old-school" players but will lose them many more casual players than they get back? It will happen.

[Soulstainer]

You guys remind me of my father. He says that if you don't work with your hands, you don't really work. Working on a computer is not real work.

Not sure if i'm as old as your father but I completely agree. Any job where your not sweating through your shirt or burning 1k calories or more per 8 hours isn't work imo =). Just my opinion of course and we live in a generation of obesity for a reason I suppose =)