View Poll Results: Do you think Stance of the Gladiator will successfully allow prot to be viable dps?

Voters
829. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    182 21.95%
  • No

    233 28.11%
  • Skeptical yet possible

    414 49.94%
Page 19 of 29 FirstFirst ...
9
17
18
19
20
21
... LastLast
  1. #361
    who cares about dps pve retards, prot pvp gona rull *--*

    Keep it civil, please. - Senen
    Last edited by Senen; 2014-04-22 at 04:59 AM.

  2. #362
    High Overlord Pulsar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by bunboj View Post
    who cares about dps pve retards, prot pvp gona rull *--*

    Infracted. - Senen
    agreed /chars

    Post constructively, please. - Senen
    Last edited by Senen; 2014-04-24 at 01:49 AM.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Yeah they'll have to either remove sword and board procs from gladiator (This may be the case already, but we can't tell from spell data) or change HLR.

    One thought I had is that thunderclap is intended to be the global-based rage dump for gladiator. The damage is buffed in gladiator stance, and HLR only reduces thunder clap, and ONLY for gladiator. I thought it was unusual that HLR reduces 2 abilities for glad/prot/arms but only 1 for fury, but maybe it's actually 1 ability for all 4 specs. Buff the damage of thunder clap (only for gladiator) so that it's more rage efficient than heroic strike, but not to the point where it hits harder than shield slam.

    That gives gladiator some oomph in the aoe department, as well as something that will show contrast vs a regular protection warrior.

    I've no idea how hard tc would be hitting for glad, but it feels it would be in a strange place if it did. From one hand if it hits too hard, harder than hs, then it will feel weird to use it for st and from the other hand if it doesnt the spec will be crap for aoe. It should be something like tc cost too little rage to use, hit decently but the spec should be close to gcd capped so that hitting tc on cd should make you loose dps for st and worth in aoe situations only.

    Like archi said maybe s&b should proc revenge to help with cleaves instead of ss.

    Also how come sb hitting so hard, 1h not even dw. weird? I guess that is with current bis gear, in wod maybe if strength gets more value with that gear, DR will hit more as it should (for glad).

  4. #364
    If it will make it live it will be succesful, since the stance has a % damage modifier which they can easily tweak to make the spec deal the damage they intend. They've done this before with many classes/specs.

  5. #365
    Its not as simple as you put it. A % modifier can work at the start of an expansion to give you the numbers you want but it goes multiplicative from there on. Which means if you leave it like that it could be insane on end tier because of scaling. If they then go and nerf it 2nd tier and then on 3rd tier, it will be crap spec for 1st tier as fury is and good at 3rd one...

  6. #366
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,367
    I will laugh my ass off if Gladiator Warrior will beat Fury at some point in DPS.

    Also will be fun to spread the loot since now potentially 4-5 people in the raid need a Strength Shield .

  7. #367
    Stood in the Fire DrArtorius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Natal, Brazil
    Posts
    460
    About the pvp problem people pointed, they can easily lock the warrior at gladiator stance inside instanced pvp (arenas and bgs), world pvp should not be a problem and I don't think people even care about it...

  8. #368
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    176
    Hey Guys,

    Not sure if you noticed the tweets, but Celestalon let us know we'd be getting 100% of our Bonus Armor on gear as Attack Power. Not sure if you can factor this in to the testing platforms ( simc ) but I think this is pretty sweet. We'll be wearing the Prot Tier after all right, which is def going to have that bonus armor. I talked about this on my blog, but here's the link:

    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...87044905938945 @Tengenstein A passive, Bladed Armor. Increases Attack Power by 100% of your Bonus Armor. (NOTE: Just *Bonus* Armor, not ALL Armor)
    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...78387044564992 @Cyclonus_WOW Bonus Armor will actually provide DPS value for tanks. Yes, it's part of the item's budget.
    Cyclonüs
    Gladiator's Resolve Blog
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiel View Post
    cyclonus has ruined everything

  9. #369
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,758
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonus-WOW View Post
    Hey Guys,

    Not sure if you noticed the tweets, but Celestalon let us know we'd be getting 100% of our Bonus Armor on gear as Attack Power. Not sure if you can factor this in to the testing platforms ( simc ) but I think this is pretty sweet. We'll be wearing the Prot Tier after all right, which is def going to have that bonus armor. I talked about this on my blog, but here's the link:

    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...87044905938945 @Tengenstein A passive, Bladed Armor. Increases Attack Power by 100% of your Bonus Armor. (NOTE: Just *Bonus* Armor, not ALL Armor)
    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...78387044564992 @Cyclonus_WOW Bonus Armor will actually provide DPS value for tanks. Yes, it's part of the item's budget.
    It's an understandable move. Without vengeance, tanks are tuned to do a % (70 or something? I forget) of normal DD's damage, they need their stats to scale up or else true DPS specs will quickly outpace them with gear. They already get something from other stats, but if Armor takes the place of say Crit on an item, they would get no benefit from that stat without a bonus.

    They've really done well so far covering all the angles.

    Edit: What I get for not reading and comprehending all of your post. Bonus armor most likely won't be on tier pieces. It has only been confirmed that it will be on rings/necks/cloaks. So this wont apply to glad stance. This is for tanking.
    Last edited by Archimtiros; 2014-04-22 at 10:50 PM.

  10. #370
    Functional as they claim? Yes.

    Viable vs Arms or fury? No.

    Let's be realistic here, alright people?
    Gold is for the mistress -- silver for the maid --
    Copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade."
    "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,
    "But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all."

    Rudyard Kipling, Cold Iron

  11. #371
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,758
    Quote Originally Posted by GrinningMan View Post
    Functional as they claim? Yes.

    Viable vs Arms or fury? No.

    Let's be realistic here, alright people?
    It's pretty close actually. Behind Arms/Fury but that is bound to happen when you are missing an on demand DPS cooldown, missing a tier talent, missing full functionality via passives.
    Sims are putting Glad very close, for start of the expansion at least. Be realistic, three specs will never be tuned equal, the simple fact that they are close makes a world of difference.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Kostattoo View Post
    I've no idea how hard tc would be hitting for glad, but it feels it would be in a strange place if it did. From one hand if it hits too hard, harder than hs, then it will feel weird to use it for st and from the other hand if it doesnt the spec will be crap for aoe. It should be something like tc cost too little rage to use, hit decently but the spec should be close to gcd capped so that hitting tc on cd should make you loose dps for st and worth in aoe situations only.

    Like archi said maybe s&b should proc revenge to help with cleaves instead of ss.

    Also how come sb hitting so hard, 1h not even dw. weird? I guess that is with current bis gear, in wod maybe if strength gets more value with that gear, DR will hit more as it should (for glad).

    They reduced weapon damage from weapons and increased the amount of weapon damage from attack power.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiel View Post
    Headlong rush at the moment is broken for prot warriors due to sword and board resetting shield slam half the time before it reaches its cool down.
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Yeah they'll have to either remove sword and board procs from gladiator (This may be the case already, but we can't tell from spell data) or change HLR.
    I know I'm late, but I don't think this is necessarily true.

    Headlong Rush doesn't just reduce the cooldown of Shield Slam, it also reduces GCD. Reduced GCD = more uses of Devestate = more Sword and Board procs.

    Basically, even if Shield Slam always procs before the cooldown resets, Shield Slam's usage will increase with haste at the same rate, because the entire rotation is sped up. Consider it this way: If shield slam had no cooldown at all, and only worked off of procs, the reduced gcd would mean getting more devastates and thus more Shield Slam activations. Shield Slam having a cooldown just gives you a safeguard against bad RNG. Shield Slam's cooldown reducing with haste makes that RNG protection scale at the same rate as the procs. Either way if you get +30% haste, you should see a similar increase in Shield Slam usage, even if sword and board procs are the main driving force behind it.


    I'm personally more curious what they plan to do with Revenge, and for rage generation.

  14. #374
    Great post, very informative.

  15. #375
    I think ultimately Gladiator Stance will function the same as Grimoir of Sacrifice for warlocks. Not intended to be the highest dps as it violates the fundamental design structure of the class, yet close enough that your 2nd or 3rd tank can dps on a boss that doesn't need him as tank, without having him needing to be sat out or have a spare 2h or extra 1h lying around to swap to fury/arms for that fight. It also solves an issue with tanks and soloing, increasing the chance for people to be specced prot to begin with, possibly solving the lack of tanks in casuals content.

    As for PvP, I would have to see the finished product and see the damage done. In the current iteration of being unable to swap to def stance, and losing all dps benefits in prot stance, you may suffer from taking way too much damage in Gladiator Stance to benefit from the extra damage, and being unable to swap into def stance until you drop combat.

  16. #376
    Mechagnome Requiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ
    Posts
    501
    Quote Originally Posted by Secondwind View Post
    I know I'm late, but I don't think this is necessarily true.

    Headlong Rush doesn't just reduce the cooldown of Shield Slam, it also reduces GCD. Reduced GCD = more uses of Devestate = more Sword and Board procs.

    Basically, even if Shield Slam always procs before the cooldown resets, Shield Slam's usage will increase with haste at the same rate, because the entire rotation is sped up. Consider it this way: If shield slam had no cooldown at all, and only worked off of procs, the reduced gcd would mean getting more devastates and thus more Shield Slam activations. Shield Slam having a cooldown just gives you a safeguard against bad RNG. Shield Slam's cooldown reducing with haste makes that RNG protection scale at the same rate as the procs. Either way if you get +30% haste, you should see a similar increase in Shield Slam usage, even if sword and board procs are the main driving force behind it.


    I'm personally more curious what they plan to do with Revenge, and for rage generation.
    The problem seemed a lot bigger than it actually was, i screwed up in the effective cd of SS and its haste contribution. it looked to be like it was losing 20% haste but actually turned out to be a 2% loss @ 50% haste.
    Last edited by Requiel; 2014-04-23 at 04:27 AM.

  17. #377
    Stood in the Fire Flalia4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    452
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagd View Post
    I think ultimately Gladiator Stance will function the same as Grimoir of Sacrifice for warlocks. Not intended to be the highest dps as it violates the fundamental design structure of the class, yet close enough that your 2nd or 3rd tank can dps on a boss that doesn't need him as tank, without having him needing to be sat out or have a spare 2h or extra 1h lying around to swap to fury/arms for that fight. It also solves an issue with tanks and soloing, increasing the chance for people to be specced prot to begin with, possibly solving the lack of tanks in casuals content.
    Can we stop talk like this? It has been stated numerous times that it is fully intentded to be viable dps. Whether that means 1-3% behind or ahead of the other specs. But it is fully intended to be a dps spec.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiel View Post
    The problem seemed a lot bigger than it actually was, i screwed up in the effective cd of SS and its haste contribution. it looked to be like it was losing 20% haste but actually turned out to be a 2% loss @ 50% haste.
    Yeh, we were all a little dumb with that.

  19. #379
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    3,367
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagd View Post
    I think ultimately Gladiator Stance will function the same as Grimoir of Sacrifice for warlocks. Not intended to be the highest dps as it violates the fundamental design structure of the class, yet close enough that your 2nd or 3rd tank can dps on a boss that doesn't need him as tank, without having him needing to be sat out or have a spare 2h or extra 1h lying around to swap to fury/arms for that fight. It also solves an issue with tanks and soloing, increasing the chance for people to be specced prot to begin with, possibly solving the lack of tanks in casuals content.

    As for PvP, I would have to see the finished product and see the damage done. In the current iteration of being unable to swap to def stance, and losing all dps benefits in prot stance, you may suffer from taking way too much damage in Gladiator Stance to benefit from the extra damage, and being unable to swap into def stance until you drop combat.
    Grimoire of Sacrifice is the best DPS option for Warlocks with KTT, what are you talking about?

    You are confusing DPS spec talent options and this new special case of Tank spec turning into DPS spec with 1 talent.
    The Warlock Grimoire tier is self-explanatory:
    Supremacy - Summon a stronger than normal demon permanently
    Service - Summon a 2nd demon as a CD
    Sacrifice - Gain pet's power

    The difference between them all without KTT is so little you should be more worried if you have 95% or 99% DoT uptimes. With KTT, the table turns more into the favor of Sacrifice as pet's can't trigger the Multi-strike effect.

  20. #380
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by Flalia4 View Post
    Can we stop talk like this?
    Yeah! What she said. My blog would be completely pointless if we were going to be far behind (lol). We will be competitive, and I will top our meters with my shield out. That is all. This is an experiment and hopefully they love it, like I already do in theory.

    @Arch Yeah, I forgot they said bonus armor wouldn't be on tier. Thanks.
    Cyclonüs
    Gladiator's Resolve Blog
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiel View Post
    cyclonus has ruined everything

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •