View Poll Results: Do you think Stance of the Gladiator will successfully allow prot to be viable dps?

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  • Yes

    184 22.09%
  • No

    233 27.97%
  • Skeptical yet possible

    416 49.94%
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  1. #21
    It sounds like one of those things they can never fully balance. It would create a spec within a spec and that's a massive headache right there. It's one of the reasons they decided to split feral tanking and dps into separate specs.
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  2. #22
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    To be honest I think it shouldn't be a talent, it should be baseline (same for other tanks) to allow you to do more DPS when not actively tanking a boss or for fights that technically require two tanks but has downtime between when a second is required (either due to mechanics or due to outgearing where you can say take much more of a debuff, but not necessarily 100% solo tank it). Basically how pre-MoP a Feral Druid could switch to Cat form and do extra DPS in between tanking the boss.
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  3. #23
    I hope not. A tank spec does not deserve dps. If it does, then hook up combat with a talent that makes us tank. Fair's fair, right?


    Prot spec should be for tanking. Warriors already have two dps specs.


    Thus far, it sounds like the intention of the talent is to transmute prot into a 3rd dps spec for warriors. It's a bad idea.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    if I was ever able to dps with a shield I would drop every single one of my other characters in a heartbeat and never look back.

  5. #25
    I would probably play my warrior all the time if I could play as a Sword/Shield DPS Gladiator.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    For those making the allusion to pre-MoP bear-katting, this is a bit different. With bear-catting, you could easily swap between excellent tanking and great dps. With this talent, you both A) Take 25% more damage from prot tank, and B) generate normal threat, rather then the 500% extra threat. So you would essentailly have a "tank" that would take a good amount of more damage compared to other tanks, and be unable to pull off the main tank for more then the 3 seconds of taunt. They would, however, be sturdy and capable of off-tanking temp adds, such as tanking adds on nazgrim, or 3 tanking shamans heroic.
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  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    Hell. I'd even settle for a glyph for arms that let me wield a cosmetic shield (no stats) and changed my colossus smash animation into a shield slam animation.

  8. #28
    a sword and board dps spec would be amazing!!! i'd rather have it for a pally but oh well..

  9. #29
    It's in alpha. Dont spend much time thinking about talents now. Most wont be there for beta or live.

  10. #30
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Keep in mind, the rotation would change somewhat. You wouldn't be able to Revenge often at all; I expect Riposte will be gone next xpac, Vengeance will be gone (from damage).
    When Celestalon says it will turn Prot into a "DPS Spec" that doesn't mean it will be a raid competitive spec, simply that it will fill the role of DPS vice Tank or Healer.
    It'll prob be decent enough for LFR, maybe even normal (though not competitive); but then, that doesn't stop people from playing Arms either now does it?

    The point is, the talent gives you more options. I really hope we see more talents like it. Maybe someday it really will make Prot a viable DPS spec, but I wouldn't expect it anytime soon.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    For those making the allusion to pre-MoP bear-katting, this is a bit different. With bear-catting, you could easily swap between excellent tanking and great dps. With this talent, you both A) Take 25% more damage from prot tank, and B) generate normal threat, rather then the 500% extra threat. So you would essentailly have a "tank" that would take a good amount of more damage compared to other tanks, and be unable to pull off the main tank for more then the 3 seconds of taunt. They would, however, be sturdy and capable of off-tanking temp adds, such as tanking adds on nazgrim, or 3 tanking shamans heroic.
    thats what i thought of when i saw this. i think that it may work better as a glyph instead of a talent though. This is a nice addition for prot. instead of making an extra Spec for warriors like they did for druids, they made it a talent which allows the flavor of a sword and board damage dealer. most guilds keep 2 main tanks and a dps/healer or two with a tank offspec. Now you can have a prot dps and keep your PvP spec without having to pay for respecs every time your raid needs you to tank. a warrior is a great class to try this on.

    this also opens up another possibility for druids and paladins down the line...... could eventually have the option to make one spec tank and glyph/talent as needed for the nights where you need a dps and keep your healing spec to be fully hybrid to keep the current roster flexible with roster/attendance issues. this would eliminate the need for the often requested "triple spec". i hate having to respec on my paladin so this would be a welcome change instead of tri-spec

  12. #32
    20% of whatever wont make protwarrior a dps specc.

    first: major damage comes from revenge that wont procc to often if you are not the maintank.

    second: prot has to few options to actually deal dps at all. shieldbash and the st attack wont do it. no colossus smash at all, where will the dps be? on thunderclap?
    i think its an option for having a dps-tank, while protpaladins will have the option of a selfheal-tank (with seal of faith, sacrificing dmg form ore selfheal) so well have two basic tank models in wod: one that makes healers less needed, and one that can carry out good decent dps, for a tankspecc.

    also it will make the protwarrior better in questing and solo-ing. id rather have seen heroic leap become a talent, so that protwarriors can wield 2hand+shield and MS can get an additional shield (without block talents then) while fury will have 2x 2handed as option. that would have been a lot more interesting than a defstance with a 20%dmg bonus. as it is now, 20% of nothin is still not much. they will have to do a major overhaul then in the protspecc (allowing him to colossus-smash, and get him back overpower and stuff like that.)

    not that i am against the idea, i just dont think this will happen as you imagine it.

  13. #33
    I really hope it's just our PVP stance, something that makes us viable in BGs and arenas. That, or be completely reworked/removed.

  14. #34
    Bloodsail Admiral Sageofthe10paths's Avatar
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    I think this is more for when the Warrior is OT'ing. Kinda like a bear going cat to put up bleeds, or a Blood DK going frost presence for extra damage. It could also be for pvp so you could be a prot warrior in bgs or arenas and put out some decent damage.

  15. #35
    This sounds really similar to the Demon Hunting glyph that was implemented into MoP beta for warlocks that almost turned them into a full fledged tanks until it was gutted into what it is now. I actually hope Gladiator makes it through in some form, now that they have had some experience dealing with something like this. Would be interesting to see a viable prot dps spec.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhany View Post
    20% of whatever wont make protwarrior a dps specc.

    first: major damage comes from revenge that wont procc to often if you are not the maintank.

    second: prot has to few options to actually deal dps at all. shieldbash and the st attack wont do it. no colossus smash at all, where will the dps be?
    If I may, Revenge right now it's a minor contributor of damage. Shield Slam more than doubles the %, revenge it's on the range of devastate. If you decide to put the rage into it, Execute also outdamages both revenge and dev. The rage component is not really needed to maintain SB as long as you have riposte up

    On the second point, the DPS will be where it is now. The major contributor is Sslam with SB up and its procs. It's blizzard decision how many Ks prot rotation it's going to do without vengeance. If they decide to be under the DPS of the other specs, it's a decision, not a lack of skills to pull the DPS.

    Also, I would have prefered it as a toggable skill, but if you are not forced to stay into in it the whole combat, it would get quite ridiculous.
    Last edited by Espada; 2013-12-07 at 10:20 AM.

  17. #37
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    They would, however, be sturdy and capable of off-tanking temp adds, such as tanking adds on nazgrim, or 3 tanking shamans heroic.
    On a related note that's something I hope they look at bringing back in general: The idea that plate or someone with defensive CDs (Rogues with Evasion for example) can serve as an off-tank in fights without requiring a full tank spec.
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  18. #38
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sageofthe10paths View Post
    I think this is more for when the Warrior is OT'ing. Kinda like a bear going cat to put up bleeds, or a Blood DK going frost presence for extra damage. It could also be for pvp so you could be a prot warrior in bgs or arenas and put out some decent damage.
    Only if the warrior is doing nothing BUT off-tanking. Remember that with this talent, prot warriors are unable to generate 500% extra threat.

    I've stated it before, and I will state it again- if this talent went live right now, without any changes, it would dominate both Arms and Fury's dps potential with current numbers. If used with certain strats where it would tank as well, it would dominate all the meters.
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  19. #39
    Too many people are looking at this in a vacuum, there will be other changes to the class, and the specs especially with regards to mechanics. I think Celestalon's answers to both my questions were pretty clear.
    A) It is intended to be a sword + board DPS spec which means it is designed to take tank damage from 75% of a DPS to even(thanks Raugnaut for posting napkin math that was almost verbatim what I made my girlfriend sit through while making this tweets)
    B) it's an idea they like and are pursuing , there is concern it's too much to put on a talent. This doesn't mean it can't make it into the game, this means they are likely to pursue alternate routes to bring it to fruition. These options are a glyph, making it baseline(with a mechanic that makes it impossible/detrimental to try and use it and D stance during the same encounter) or adding a 4th spec. And I am sure the creative minds on the dev team can come up with even more then that.

    C)it could get scapped(and make a lot of us very very sad).

    There is absolutely no reason they can't make this work and be viable and honestly snarky remarks about arms not being viable but people trying to play it anyways serve zero purpose and ignore blizzards stated goals while only focusing on a temporary failure to achieve them. Creative development in an environment like wow where you have multiple areas of gameplay to balance around isn't easy and it deserves far more respect than most of us ever give them credit for.

  20. #40
    I don't personally like this, but it could lead up to interesting ramifications. They gave up on DKs being able to do DPS / Tank with all specs, but back then they showed interest in Arms Tanking as well. It was a lot harder then because of the so many different stats;now, with everything simplified, they might want to explore these kind of stuff again.

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