View Poll Results: Do you think Stance of the Gladiator will successfully allow prot to be viable dps?

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  • Yes

    220 24.77%
  • No

    238 26.80%
  • Skeptical yet possible

    430 48.42%
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  1. #381
    Stood in the Fire Flalia4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonus-WOW View Post
    Yeah! What she said. My blog would be completely pointless if we were going to be far behind (lol). We will be competitive, and I will top our meters with my shield out. That is all. This is an experiment and hopefully they love it, like I already do in theory.

    @Arch Yeah, I forgot they said bonus armor wouldn't be on tier. Thanks.
    Biggest problem I see with our dps going into warlords is convincing our raid leader bonus armor is going to be good for us. @..@

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    It's an understandable move. Without vengeance, tanks are tuned to do a % (70 or something? I forget) of normal DD's damage, they need their stats to scale up or else true DPS specs will quickly outpace them with gear. They already get something from other stats, but if Armor takes the place of say Crit on an item, they would get no benefit from that stat without a bonus.

    They've really done well so far covering all the angles.

    Edit: What I get for not reading and comprehending all of your post. Bonus armor most likely won't be on tier pieces. It has only been confirmed that it will be on rings/necks/cloaks. So this wont apply to glad stance. This is for tanking.
    They're also getting a damage boost from mastery as well.
    http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=76857/m...block#comments

    It remains to be seen if 1% mastery = 1% AP or not, but for the damage oriented Gladiator Warrior, Mastery will be valuable despite not really caring about block/crit block rating.

  3. #383
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    what im wondering is how will this effect glad stance warriors?
    Mastery: Critical Block now also passively increases Attack Power by 8% (percentage increased by Mastery), in addition to its current effects.

    Bladed Armor is a new passive ability for Blood Death Knights, Guardian Druids, Brewmaster Monks, Protection Paladins, and Protection Warriors.

    Bladed Armor increases Attack Power by 100% of the character's Bonus Armor.

    one could speculate that bonus armour on glad warriors and mastery stacking may lead to stupid high attack power , they seem to have a very very good synergy togeather.

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  4. #384
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    They're also getting a damage boost from mastery as well.
    http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=76857/m...block#comments

    It remains to be seen if 1% mastery = 1% AP or not, but for the damage oriented Gladiator Warrior, Mastery will be valuable despite not really caring about block/crit block rating.
    That is correct. Starts out at 8% and had Req confirm it does increases at 1% per %

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post
    what im wondering is how will this effect glad stance warriors?
    Mastery: Critical Block now also passively increases Attack Power by 8% (percentage increased by Mastery), in addition to its current effects.

    Bladed Armor is a new passive ability for Blood Death Knights, Guardian Druids, Brewmaster Monks, Protection Paladins, and Protection Warriors.

    Bladed Armor increases Attack Power by 100% of the character's Bonus Armor.

    one could speculate that bonus armour on glad warriors and mastery stacking may lead to stupid high attack power , they seem to have a very very good synergy togeather.
    I am certain Bladed Armor will only work in D Stance, like everything else that is Tank specific. And even then, there will only be 3 or 4 pieces of gear that can even have Armor on them so you couldn't stack it that high.

  5. #385
    Mechagnome Requiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    That is correct. Starts out at 8% and had Req confirm it does increases at 1% per %
    quick note: mastery is a bit confusing because it has three different sub values, i.e. mastery, mastery rating (on gear) and mastery % (on character sheet). currently its 600 mastery rating per 1 mastery, so its 600 mastery rating per 1% AP. currently normal block from mastery is 2% per 1 mastery (iirc), so if you want to know how much AP you would have in your prot gear would be half of your crit block chance from mastery.
    Last edited by Requiel; 2014-04-24 at 12:02 AM.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flalia4 View Post
    Biggest problem I see with our dps going into warlords is convincing our raid leader bonus armor is going to be good for us. @..@
    Thats not necessarily a problem. It literally just opens more options for those slots! More choices = easier to gear.

  7. #387
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
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    Still undecided, but since the idea seems to be that you'd use tank gear to DPS, I'd bet Bladed Armor would work in Glad Stance.

    And, still liking the bonus 5% DR. That, alone, might sell me on the talent, no matter how viable the damage is (I do have an offspec)

  8. #388
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Still undecided, but since the idea seems to be that you'd use tank gear to DPS, I'd bet Bladed Armor would work in Glad Stance.

    And, still liking the bonus 5% DR. That, alone, might sell me on the talent, no matter how viable the damage is (I do have an offspec)
    They are making all of the secondary stats viable for DPS, question is how strong some of the stats are compared to others. Like Mastery and Bonus Armor would have been absolutely useless if not for the buffs for Gladiator.

  9. #389
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    They are making all of the secondary stats viable for DPS, question is how strong some of the stats are compared to others. Like Mastery and Bonus Armor would have been absolutely useless if not for the buffs for Gladiator.
    It hasn't been stated if bonus armor would work for Glads or not, but every instinct says no.
    1) Tanks don't have the option of gearing DPS stats in those slots, DPS do; however, their DPS will fall down as gear increases unless they do. Hence: Bladed Armor comes in.

    2) Glads have the option to gear DPS, because they are DPS. They compete with the DPS classes for gear.
    The only downside I can see with this is loot specializations for coins. I imagine Prot spec would get you 1hrs, "armor rings" and tank trinkets, where as Fury spec would make you eligable for 2hrs, DPS rings and Trinkets. Of course they could easily add a "gladiator" spec to choose, or you could be smart and change your loot spec based on the drops of that boss.

    Don't think of Gladiator Stance as "something a tank does", think of it as a spec that is simply tied to a talent. A sub spec if you will akin to 1h and 2h Frost or SMF/TG Fury (though with obvious bigger differences).

    I wrote a moderate length post on it here. Keep in mind that the stat weights/dps is constantly changing as things are tweaked in simcraft and new alpha changes go out.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    It hasn't been stated if bonus armor would work for Glads or not, but every instinct says no.
    1) Tanks don't have the option of gearing DPS stats in those slots, DPS do; however, their DPS will fall down as gear increases unless they do. Hence: Bladed Armor comes in.

    2) Glads have the option to gear DPS, because they are DPS. They compete with the DPS classes for gear.
    The only downside I can see with this is loot specializations for coins. I imagine Prot spec would get you 1hrs, "armor rings" and tank trinkets, where as Fury spec would make you eligable for 2hrs, DPS rings and Trinkets. Of course they could easily add a "gladiator" spec to choose, or you could be smart and change your loot spec based on the drops of that boss.

    Don't think of Gladiator Stance as "something a tank does", think of it as a spec that is simply tied to a talent. A sub spec if you will akin to 1h and 2h Frost or SMF/TG Fury (though with obvious bigger differences).

    I wrote a moderate length post on it here. Keep in mind that the stat weights/dps is constantly changing as things are tweaked in simcraft and new alpha changes go out.

    It wouldn't be out of the question that Bladed Armor would work, considering it's a Protection Specialization passive that you get. Taking the Glad talent won't remove that passive from you, so it's safe to assume that you'd still get the bonus from the armor. Not only that, but you'll probably be able to wear the same gear to do the damage, considering you might have to swap out trinkets as the only real items you swap out.

    Looking at the gear on wowhead already, the difference between the tank and str multistrike trinkets is the tank one has bonus armor instead of strength. So since BA gives you 100% ap from bonus armor, you gain 159 attack power (the same as 159 str, just with no passive parry bonus). Some of the rings sacrifice secondary stats for bonus armor though. So you'll probably end up picking up both the armor and the non-armor items at some point and judging if you want the bonus armor (and attack power) vs a different secondary on a fight by fight basis. "Do I want bonus armor to prevent more damage, or do I want to have some extra haste?"



  11. #391
    Stood in the Fire Snorkles's Avatar
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    I really hope this works out and makes it to live. This alone has made my want to play my Warrior through WoD! Who knows, it may even set the stage for other classes getting similar treatment (Holy DPS Paladins, Warlock/Rogue tanks etc).

  12. #392
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    It hasn't been stated if bonus armor would work for Glads or not, but every instinct says no.
    Earlier in this threat I linked the twitter convo, its also on my blog.. I asked Celestalon if Gladstance would disable bonus armor. His response was that it will provide dps value for tanks. Tengenstein asked how, and he let us know about Bladed Armor. Then it appeared in the next set of alpha patch notes.

    I think this would infer that it's going to work for Gladiators.

  13. #393
    It would work for Tanks, Gladiator is not a tank, doesn't sound like it benefits Glad in any DPS oriented way + It wouldn't make sense for Glad to be the only DPS in the game that would gain DPS from Bonus Armor.
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  14. #394
    Bladed Armor is a Protection Specialization passive. Glad is NOT a separate spec, it's still a prot spec, just a different stance. Bladed Armor won't magically disappear or stop working when in glad stance.

    You're still a tank, but now you're in dps stance while tank spec. Not tank stance in dps spec.



  15. #395
    Sooo, you guys know how I said gladiator was competitive with fury/arms? Well, I made a mistake and forgot to update armor values for the stat-squish and for level 100, that was fixed a few days ago but I forgot to post about it here. Boss-level targets had roughly 1% damage reduction from armor before, which favored specs that cannot ignore armor, aka gladiator.

    (Also, we don't actually know what damage reduction from armor on bosses will be at level 100, so I'm currently using 34.9% like it is now.)

    Gladiator is around 2k dps behind fury at this point (7k~ vs 9k~), but it will be adjusted as time goes on I'm sure.

  16. #396
    The Patient
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    Flavor Wise, I think of a Gladiator as a rogue with a shield. Lots of dirty tricks, kicking sand in your face, and hooks, and disarm techniques. If this is successful, it would be pretty sweet if it became an actual spec that they flushed out like that. Its exciting that they're even trying this.

  17. #397
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    Bladed Armor is a Protection Specialization passive. Glad is NOT a separate spec, it's still a prot spec, just a different stance. Bladed Armor won't magically disappear or stop working when in glad stance.

    You're still a tank, but now you're in dps stance while tank spec. Not tank stance in dps spec.
    But passives do magically disappear/stop working in Glad Stance. First and foremost is Unwavering Sentinel, second is Resolve.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonus-WOW View Post
    Earlier in this threat I linked the twitter convo, its also on my blog.. I asked Celestalon if Gladstance would disable bonus armor. His response was that it will provide dps value for tanks. Tengenstein asked how, and he let us know about Bladed Armor. Then it appeared in the next set of alpha patch notes.

    I think this would infer that it's going to work for Gladiators.
    Gladiators are considered DPS, not Tanks. Regardless if it is still Protection spec or not. Protection does not = Tank when in Gladiator Stance. Stop thinking of Gladiator Stance as a "Tank doing DPS" because that 1) doesn't make sense and 2) isn't true. They are not Tanks in that stance. The fact that it is tied to a Talent/Stance is irrelevant.

    That said, we really have no idea if it will work or not, because it depends entirely on one thing: Itemization.
    Honestly it is a moot point anyway, because it is very easy to see the stat weight if enabled, it's just Attack Power, which is equivalent to Strength in WoD. Given how powerful Strength is in relation to other stats, I doubt they'll give Glads an extra source of it, unless it is truly needed to keep up in damage, which is doubtful given what we've seen so far.
    Last edited by Archimtiros; 2014-04-25 at 11:25 PM.

  18. #398
    Celestalon said that unwavering sentinel is tied to defensive stance. So obviously I'd you swap out of the stance you would lose it either way. Going to assume that resolve is also going to be tied to defense stance like vengeance is tied to of stance for monks.

    As far as bonus armor goes, on items that have it they sacrifice another secondary for it. So instead of str crit haste, you would have str crit armor.



  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    No and it isn't intended to.
    I know everyone wants to play exactly how they want and for a small minority playing "prot-dps" in raids would be fun but that isn't going to happen. That would simply require them to attempt to balance yet another spec.
    The intent behind the talent is to let you have an option. Out questing, brawlers guild, scenarios, pvp perhaps. This is the content SotG is designed for.
    Very rarely it may see use in raids. Zerg fights or times when you need two tanks because of mechanic but threat/dam reduc is not an issue.
    I don't even play prot but I personally love the talent because it gives us more options and changes the way you can play. I like the implication.
    Don't think for a second it will be competitive with Fury or even Arms in a raid though.
    I disagree.

  20. #400
    Well I just read the front page posts and am I understanding correctly? With gladiator stance Warriors will in effect have 3 ways to dps and 1 to tank?
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