1. #2041
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    theres also that one time they used the alpha worgen model in an advert a little while back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    you know now that i think about it im actually pretty interested in the new troll models.

    trolls are covered in fur so people dont actually know their real skin colour, will be interesting to see if this is more noticeable in the new models.

    might even manage to make the trolls look a little cute :P
    WHAT?!

    *Check wowpedia*

    OMFG!!!

    *Read about how Forest Trolls can support plant life to a limited extent in their skin*

    WTF?!

    *Forest Trolls grow a thin layer of moss on the skin after they are born and gives them their characteristic green coloring*

    Everything i knew about Trolls is a lie!!!

  2. #2042
    Herald of the Titans Anzaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    trolls are covered in fur so people dont actually know their real skin colour,
    What?
    Healer/Damage Dealer of SuN
    Highmaul: Normal 6/7, Heroic 1/7

  3. #2043
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    What?
    yep. trolls have a thin layer of fur all over their entire bodies and forest trolls grow moss over their fur so nobody has any idea what colour trolls are.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  4. #2044
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    yep. trolls have a thin layer of fur all over their entire bodies and forest trolls grow moss over their fur so nobody has any idea what colour trolls are.
    As much i would love to see that on Jungle Trolls and see moss and some plants over Forests Trolls i don't think they will give us that, cause that would change a lot how the Trolls looks or at least how they are seen by the players and Blizzard wants to preserve the essense of all characters

  5. #2045
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    As much i would love to see that on Jungle Trolls and see moss and some plants over Forests Trolls i don't think they will give us that, cause that would change a lot how the Trolls looks or at least how they are seen by the players and Blizzard wants to preserve the essense of all characters
    they could still do it without it being too noticeable. if you look on some of the textures the legs and arms are a bit fuzzy looking. they could make those sections more fuzzy without making the whole body look different
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  6. #2046
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    they could still do it without it being too noticeable. if you look on some of the textures the legs and arms are a bit fuzzy looking. they could make those sections more fuzzy without making the whole body look different
    True, lets hope and wait

    Dammit... now i want even more to have Forest Trolls as a subrace with moss and some plants over their bodies :S

  7. #2047
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I'm not a big fan of the idea myself. Wouldn't mind a few legitimate half elf NPCs getting custom models though.

    But yeah let's not get into that whole halfbreed genetic gymnastics thing haha.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It seems to be strongly implied that the Azotha became modern humans though. Like why there are no pockets of Cro-Magnons today. And I got the impression most of the Vrykul->Human transformation had already occurred at that point.

    I assumed that they were completely separated from Vrykul culture when they first became a separate race, so in terms of look/costume/theme the shift was abrupt.
    ...

    Cro-Magnons were Modern Humans. There are still Hunter Gatherer's surviving to this very day, and they are also Modern Humans.

    Also, Vrykul still exist despite everything.

    It is not even slightly strange to imagine populations which didn't get sucked into a large cultural shift, and retain more visible ancestral features that have become uncommon in other populations. Those exist all over the fucking place in RL.

    Also, the Humans apparently still remembered Tyr, who had been worshiped by the Vrykul so it probably hadn't been a complete cultural cutoff.

    As for High Elves... I just want the High Elves to just all die already. They've already started in that direction and been helped along when one major remaining bastion of them turned Wretched.

    Half-Elves are simply the inevitable future for those who refuse to rejoin their brethren in Silvermoon. The Elves who stuck with the Alliance were the ones with close ties to humanity, with their current leader having spawned a pair of Half-Elf twins already. The other most famous High-Elf produced Arator, who is another fucking Half-Elf.

    That's basically their destiny now. They are the Human-lovers, dwelling in Human cities and consorting primarily with Humans. Considering how low the High-Elven population has gotten, an increase in Half-Elves are just going to be a predictable eventual product. They wouldn't be a replacement for High-Elves or anything. They're just the ways things are going for their legacy as human-lovers who have lost ties to their culture and homeland, and been integrated into Human ones.

    Despite the name change, the Blood Elves are the true continuation of their race and culture. No one needs High-Elves back, let alone as a full race.

    As for Elf Forsaken... Lorewise, a lot of the Forsaken are already Elves. Even Sylvanas's royal guard, who use the standard Forsaken model right now, are supposed to be undead Elves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    yeah but the azotha were pretty much replaced by the vrykul.

    theres really nothing known about them other than "they lived in stranglethorn a long time ago and had some sort of unknown connection with the titans and their human decendants named azeroth after them"

    they could bring them back if blizzard really wanted to but when someone asked copeland about them on twitter i got the impression blizzard didnt even remember them and just brushed it off as "oh thats just rpg stuff"
    Not really. Azotha was presented as nothing more than an old word for Humans. They weren't really represented as anything other than Humans.

    At most, they would be humans with a few features that were lost in the general populace, and a different culture. Not a race that mutated into a different form to create Humans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    True, lets hope and wait

    Dammit... now i want even more to have Forest Trolls as a subrace with moss and some plants over their bodies :S
    They're closer to nature than the Night Elves themselves.

  8. #2048
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    ...

    As for High Elves... I just want the High Elves to just all die already. They've already started in that direction and been helped along when one major remaining bastion of them turned Wretched.

    Half-Elves are simply the inevitable future for those who refuse to rejoin their brethren in Silvermoon. The Elves who stuck with the Alliance were the ones with close ties to humanity, with their current leader having spawned a pair of Half-Elf twins already. The other most famous High-Elf produced Arator, who is another fucking Half-Elf.

    That's basically their destiny now. They are the Human-lovers, dwelling in Human cities and consorting primarily with Humans. Considering how low the High-Elven population has gotten, an increase in Half-Elves are just going to be a predictable eventual product. They wouldn't be a replacement for High-Elves or anything. They're just the ways things are going for their legacy as human-lovers who have lost ties to their culture and homeland, and been integrated into Human ones.

    Despite the name change, the Blood Elves are the true continuation of their race and culture. No one needs High-Elves back, let alone as a full race.
    That's true, but the HE have a really big fan base so i don't think that will happen, unless Blizzard want to add the HE as a race and have a better excuse to make them completely different from the BE (IMO they could just make different models for the HE and in the end be BE)

    As for Elf Forsaken... Lorewise, a lot of the Forsaken are already Elves. Even Sylvanas's royal guard, who use the standard Forsaken model right now, are supposed to be undead Elves.
    Yep, many Forsakens are HE and Half-elfs

    They're closer to nature than the Night Elves themselves.
    Yeah, i know that (but i didn't knew that they could grew plants on their skin XD )

  9. #2049
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsychotic View Post
    That looks alot like an image for gender change service.
    That is what it was, IIRC. I don't think these relate to new models.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  10. #2050
    Scarab Lord Nalira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    yep. trolls have a thin layer of fur all over their entire bodies and forest trolls grow moss over their fur so nobody has any idea what colour trolls are.


    I did not know that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Knowing Celestalon, he both A) doesn't know and B) will nerf the spec until he figures it out while denying it ever happened.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  11. #2051
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    Half-Elves are simply the inevitable future for those who refuse to rejoin their brethren in Silvermoon. The Elves who stuck with the Alliance were the ones with close ties to humanity, with their current leader having spawned a pair of Half-Elf twins already. The other most famous High-Elf produced Arator, who is another fucking Half-Elf.
    Half-elves are incredibly rare. If one is going by numbers, half-elves are probably one of the lowest population 'races' in the setting, even lower than high elves, probably lower than gnomes etc. They also tend to be shunned by both parent races and constitute misfits for both. Why they should take precedence over a race with an active presence in the Alliance is beyond me.

    That's basically their destiny now. They are the Human-lovers, dwelling in Human cities and consorting primarily with Humans. Considering how low the High-Elven population has gotten, an increase in Half-Elves are just going to be a predictable eventual product. They wouldn't be a replacement for High-Elves or anything. They're just the ways things are going for their legacy as human-lovers who have lost ties to their culture and homeland, and been integrated into Human ones.
    Which is pure speculation. Vereesa and her sisters have always been less than loyal to their own race in matters of love. We have no idea as to what the original numbers of Quel'thalas was, however it was a sizeable kingdom, so all these arguments regarding HE being "incredibly rare" are mostly made from a position of ignorance, when they may well be more numerous than... Darkspear trolls, gnomes, forest trolls (they are all but annihilated), draenei, tauren etc etc. Even at 1%, they may stil outnumber many of the playable races simply by virtue of Quel'thalas's original size.

    The High elves constitute exiles who Lor'themar removed as he (understandably) did not want to rule a divided kingdom. They did not necessarily side with the Alliance out of a love for humans. And even if they were preponderantly loyal to them, they would not suddenly begin to breed with them just because of that, otherwise one could make this argument about just any loyal, low population Alliance race. To date, they have retained their culture and formed new outposts. I think you're overstepping the mark in predicting assimilation simply because they inhabit some human settlements, and a mixed realm like Dalaran.

    Despite the name change, the Blood Elves are the true continuation of their race and culture. No one needs High-Elves back, let alone as a full race.
    This is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do want them back, and not just half elves, as they see them as a part of the Alliance. To date the blood elves remain at best a poor fit for the Horde, much like the Forsaken.

    To cut it short, they're certainly not intent on dying, or they would have already done so given the ample opportunity, and the reasons for leaving Quel'thalas were not just some love for humans.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2014-03-17 at 06:13 PM.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  12. #2052
    blood elves are high elves!!!
    For Quelthalas

  13. #2053
    Scarab Lord Nalira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    blood elves are high elves!!!
    I might be wrong here but I'm 87% sure that you're signature is too big.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Knowing Celestalon, he both A) doesn't know and B) will nerf the spec until he figures it out while denying it ever happened.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  14. #2054
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    WHAT?!

    *Check wowpedia*

    OMFG!!!

    *Read about how Forest Trolls can support plant life to a limited extent in their skin*

    WTF?!

    *Forest Trolls grow a thin layer of moss on the skin after they are born and gives them their characteristic green coloring*

    Everything i knew about Trolls is a lie!!!
    Yeah, I was just as shocked as you when I found out. Who knew trolls were furries? :P

  15. #2055
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Half-elves are incredibly rare. If one is going by numbers, half-elves are probably one of the lowest population 'races' in the setting, even lower than high elves, probably lower than gnomes etc. They also tend to be shunned by both parent races and constitute misfits for both. Why they should take precedence over a race with an active presence in the Alliance is beyond me.

    Which is pure speculation. Vereesa and her sisters have always been less than loyal to their own race in matters of love. We have no idea as to what the original numbers of Quel'thalas was, however it was a sizeable kingdom, so all these arguments regarding HE being "incredibly rare" are mostly made from a position of ignorance, when they may well be more numerous than... Darkspear trolls, gnomes, forest trolls (they are all but annihilated), draenei, tauren etc etc. Even at 1%, they may stil outnumber many of the playable races simply by virtue of Quel'thalas's original size.

    The High elves constitute exiles who Lor'themar removed as he (understandably) did not want to rule a divided kingdom. They did not necessarily side with the Alliance out of a love for humans. And even if they were preponderantly loyal to them, they would not suddenly begin to breed with them just because of that, otherwise one could make this argument about just any loyal, low population Alliance race. To date, they have retained their culture and formed new outposts. I think you're overstepping the mark in predicting assimilation simply because they inhabit some human settlements, and a mixed realm like Dalaran.

    This is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do want them back, and not just half elves, as they see them as a part of the Alliance. To date the blood elves remain at best a poor fit for the Horde, much like the Forsaken.

    To cut it short, they're certainly not intent on dying, or they would have already done so given the ample opportunity, and the reasons for leaving Quel'thalas were not just some love for humans.
    I never said Half-Elves should take precedence as a full race. This is the Subrace thread after all, not the new Alliance Race thread.

    Anyhow, High Elves actually fall into two categories. There are the ones who Lor'themar removed from Silvermoon, but most of those are actually dead or Wretched by now. Funny thing that. The others are mostly those who were stationed with other races.

    Plenty of people want them back, but who cares about them? I quite despise it when stories just can't move forward and regress due to misguided nostalgia, and would rather not have more of that than is already present. The High Elves have distracted from actual playable Alliance races for too long. And really, what culture have they retained? None that I noticed. I guess they're still good with bows.

    As for Blood Elves and Forsaken being poor fits for the Horde... Are they? What makes Goblins any better of a fit? What makes any race a fit?

    If Blood Elves and Forsaken are a poor fit, it's because someone whose working on their story foolishly believes they are. Probably the same people who keep shoving Orcs in everyones face, because honestly... The Trolls and Tauren aren't a good fit for that Horde either. They're just too culturally different when that is noted. Really, none of the Horde races really work too well when forced to be constrained to the Orc aesthetic, except maybe Goblins. And that's because Goblins built much of the Orc aesthetic.

    In truth, I've generally noticed that Forsaken and Blood Elves are excellent fits for the Horde when they're allowed to be. Maybe they don't live in leather tents, wear animal hides, or worship the elements... But who cares? It's boring if everyone is the same. The Blood Elves and Forsaken both add something to the Horde, and work well with them when effort is made to have them actually work with them.

  16. #2056
    Ngh, when is the next artcraft?? I need my fix!

  17. #2057
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    But there's nothing to indicate that the HE story is 'over', or that they've assimilated with humans to the extent that you envisage, or even that most of those which Lor'themar exiled died. Particularly if they were introduced as a subrace, I can't see the issue, and it would certainly go some way to making those of us who want to play them satisfied. Blizzard is perfectly capable of crafting stories for the other races too, which it has and is continuing to do, alongside the introduction of subraces, especially since for most of these there's already established lore (case in point: the HE). Particular stories involve the HE, though, and are on-going, and I see little reason to drop them simply to involve other races.

    I mean if we wanted to go on about the lack of a visible culture, most races in WoW would fall vulnerable to this, but that's simply because a lot of this stuff isn't shown in-game until Blizzard develops it in-game, and this includes the HE. I agree that some of the other races deserve some attention, and Blizzard is doing so gradually.

    In truth, I've generally noticed that Forsaken and Blood Elves are excellent fits for the Horde when they're allowed to be. Maybe they don't live in leather tents, wear animal hides, or worship the elements... But who cares? It's boring if everyone is the same. The Blood Elves and Forsaken both add something to the Horde, and work well with them when effort is made to have them actually work with them.
    Well most of the BE involvement has simply been cast in terms of antagonism with the HE because of past animosity with the Alliance. They're both reluctant members of the faction, using it to advance their own agendas, with the Forsaken increasingly treading too much on the blood elves' toes, much like Garrosh did. That's fair enough but this cynical manipulation could fit within any faction, really, Horde, Alliance, or any other. But I'm not arguing that they should be swapped over to the Alliance, only that to many people the Alliance appeals more as a faction but they also like the race, which historically has close ties to it, thus the desire for HE.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2014-03-17 at 10:14 PM.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  18. #2058
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    But there's nothing to indicate that the HE story is 'over', or that they've assimilated with humans to the extent that you envisage, or even that most of those which Lor'themar exiled died. Particularly if they were introduced as a subrace, I can't see the issue, and it would certainly go some way to making those of us who want to play them satisfied. Blizzard is perfectly capable of crafting stories for the other races too, which it has and is continuing to do, alongside the introduction of subraces, especially since for most of these there's already established lore (case in point: the HE). Particular stories involve the HE, though, and are on-going, and I see little reason to drop them simply to involve other races.

    I mean if we wanted to go on about the lack of a visible culture, most races in WoW would fall vulnerable to this, but that's simply because a lot of this stuff isn't shown in-game until Blizzard develops it in-game, and this includes the HE. I agree that some of the other races deserve some attention, and Blizzard is doing so gradually.



    Well most of the BE involvement has simply been cast in terms of antagonism with the HE because of past animosity with the Alliance. They're both reluctant members of the faction, using it to advance their own agendas, with the Forsaken increasingly treading too much on the blood elves' toes, much like Garrosh did. That's fair enough but this cynical manipulation could fit within any faction, really, Horde, Alliance, or any other. But I'm not arguing that they should be swapped over to the Alliance, only that to many people the Alliance appeals more as a faction but they also like the race, which historically has close ties to it, thus the desire for HE.
    Thing is, I'm not sure if High Elves would really qualify as a subrace of Humans or Night Elves.

    And yeah, I think Blood Elves and the Forsaken haven't been managed too well as part of the Horde. However, I think they fit along nicely when an actual attempt is made. They have the right amount of heavy contrast with a few underlying similarities that I like to see. Their contrasting elements show that they actually have something to offer, and so fit better. Their similar pragmatic attitudes show why they can work together, and how they can get along.

    Whatever the case, I think High-Elves would just be further steps back than we already have. I'm still bitter that they recreated the Sunwell as a fountain of Light. I liked the Mana Vampire angle, and didn't see it as evil. They were primarily feeding off of Arcane energies according to most lore sources.

  19. #2059
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Well yes, I can agree on that. I've been dissatisfied with the direction of BE since Kael'thas was turned into a villain and disposed of. I also really liked the Illidari as a potential faction, though that is wishful thinking at this point in time, but I do think it would have helped retain racial diversity and to bring in the Naga that so many people, myself included, want. Having to use fel and remain under control despite its intoxicating power was a cool angle. Barring the option of a third faction, this could've been used to great effect to develop even more synergies between them and their Forsaken neighbours, many of whom were elves. At the moment, they seem to be drifting apart. I am not too keen on the new Sunwell, which is a synthesis between Light and the arcane, but we'll see what they do with it. I will try remain optimistic.

    However, with what is left, I'd rather just have the option to play a high elf. I think a clear argument could be made to bring them under NE as a subrace (acknowledging that it isn't perfect, however it is no more untoward than introducing forest trolls under the Darkspear slot.) Their storyline could then be tied in with the Shen'dralar, as it is reasonable that they would take an interest, no doubt mutual, in their ancestors, who themselves experienced a rather foreboding isolation within Eldre'thalas and now seek to re-take it; this could help pad out their cultural aspects too. This would be in addition to areas like Dalaran or the Hinterlands, where they have bases but where there would also be independent reasons for future lore development, e.g. Dalaran's storyline or the Wildhammer in the Hinterlands.

    You could argue that by doing so, Blizzard would at least have more scope to differentiate BE, and also kill two birds with one stone by utilising areas that are rich for future development, e.g. Eldre'thalas (Dire Maul) and the various HE outposts. The Highborne are, to date, something of a non-entity in the Alliance, when by all accounts their return should've seen big changes in NE culture.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2014-03-17 at 11:19 PM.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  20. #2060
    look point is they either need to give us high elves or stop shoving them in our faces pretty much every expansion, seeing them all the time fighting with the alliance and doing things for the alliance when we cant play as them is just mean.

    vanilla - high elves in hinterlands and on our boats
    bc - allerian stronghold
    wrath - whole damn faction of the things
    cata - no high elves unless you count the ones that are still in hinterlands from the leveling revamp
    mists - another faction filled with fucking high elves

    for a race that so many people want to play its just mean to keep shoving them in our faces if we arent going to get to play them

    - - - Updated - - -

    not to mention its just a matter of time before alleria shows up and she and her sister and turalyon will probably end up playing super high elf wonder twins team of awesome non playable alliance dudes
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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