1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post

    Human - Azotha (Vrykul Features), Asian Humans (a la Wu Shen)

    I'd think San'layn would be a Blood Elf option, seeing as they were Blood Elves under Kael'thas stuck in Northrend. But whatevz, San'layn look so cool.
    I love Vrykul as well, and all things Norse and viking.
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  2. #322
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    All of these would require huge amount of new lore to justify them. Also, High Elf is physically the same as BE so I don't know what's the point. Just coppy BE's model for AA?
    Whaaat lore is that? Really, what lore? The starting zones? who gives a rats ass about that.
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  3. #323
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Whaaat lore is that? Really, what lore? The starting zones? who gives a rats ass about that.
    Even then, most viable subraces would only need a few different lines in quest text and maybe a new starting zone intro video summing up to how they got there. Especially now that the Wildhammers and Dark Irons have rejoined with the Ironforge dwarves, the high elves are returning to relevance as a small but elite force in the Alliance, there are Grimtotem who have forsaken Magatha and sworn allegiance to Baine, and Garrosh introduced several 'rogue' clans back into the Horde, some of whom could have sided with the rebellion.

    edit: Thinking about it, a lot of lore developments since Cataclysm seem to be setting up groundwork for subraces, looking at it through the context of this hypothetical.
    Last edited by Callei; 2013-12-21 at 10:22 PM.

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  4. #324
    Herald of the Titans shoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    Not to diss, but I haven't seen any custom textures. Adjusting color balances is one thing, but hand painted textures is a different ballpark.
    Pretty much this, as amazing a photoshop super genius artist supreme that I am, I'm literally still on the 30 day free trial of Photoshop and didn't use anything other than cut/paste/hue/contrast/brightness for every single one of them. This project made for a good practice run for a intro to photoshop class I have in a few weeks though.
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  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    Pretty much this, as amazing a photoshop super genius artist supreme that I am, I'm literally still on the 30 day free trial of Photoshop and didn't use anything other than cut/paste/hue/contrast/brightness for every single one of them. This project made for a good practice run for a intro to photoshop class I have in a few weeks though.
    You've got a knack for it
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  6. #326
    I love them!

    All of them!

    Especially the Leper Gnomes! if Blizzard would add those, I would character custemise my Gnome Warlock to one (thus explaining why he became a Warlock).
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    For King Wrynn! and for the Alliance!

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  7. #327
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Whaaat lore is that? Really, what lore? The starting zones? who gives a rats ass about that.
    Yep the lore of the game is mostly just tacked onto it, anyway, and no new lore would be required to justify the introduction of a HE subrace to Alliance... which already has HE in it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    I'd think San'layn would be a Blood Elf option, seeing as they were Blood Elves under Kael'thas stuck in Northrend. But whatevz, San'layn look so cool.
    I love Vrykul as well, and all things Norse and viking.
    Logically, San'layn would be Forsaken, who already comprise both humans and elves. If they did introduce a subrace like that, it'd be felbloods for blood elves. Although I suppose you could reason that if blood elves can already be DKs, there is no harm in a blood elf undead subrace.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Even then, most viable subraces would only need a few different lines in quest text and maybe a new starting zone intro video summing up to how they got there. Especially now that the Wildhammers and Dark Irons have rejoined with the Ironforge dwarves, the high elves are returning to relevance as a small but elite force in the Alliance, there are Grimtotem who have forsaken Magatha and sworn allegiance to Baine, and Garrosh introduced several 'rogue' clans back into the Horde, some of whom could have sided with the rebellion.

    edit: Thinking about it, a lot of lore developments since Cataclysm seem to be setting up groundwork for subraces, looking at it through the context of this hypothetical.
    Indeed, well put. In the end, Wildhammer, Dark Irons, Forest Trolls and HE are all very popular choices and I think they will make it in as subraces, no matter how much whining comes from some quarters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    Not sure what else Blood Elves could be other than Fel-Blood Elves but those aren't really playable but I can mock some up, Night Elves have the opportunity for tattoo's/Highborne skin Colors I suppose
    Felbloods, or I suppose San'layn, and with Night elves, of course Highborne and High elves, should Blizzard choose to use them as the vessel for that subrace, but you would need the new blood elf base model for that. Still, it doesn't hurt to put them on the to-do list! It would be a nice starting point to think of ways to differentiate the HE as a subrace, e.g. tattoos, differences in skin/hair tone, eye coloration etc. I also agree with what you mentioned for the Highborne, although I would add an arcane-influenced glow in their eyes.

    Regarding San'layn, it may be far-fetched but before WOTLK, so were playable DKs. Felbloods could simply be those blood elves who pursue their fel addiction further yet manage to retain a distance from the Legion. Illidan himself was pretty fel corrupted but never succumbed to the Legion, although he did grow crazier. That being said, he always had a rather megalomaniacal personality, fel or no fel. Given the amount of lore-bending that goes on to introduce far less interesting stuff, I'd love the option of felblood and San'layn skins.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2013-12-22 at 01:05 AM.

  8. #328
    The Lightbringer Agoonga's Avatar
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    I think each race should get 3 subraces, seems like the perfect amount to me. In my opinion, these are what some of the subraces should be:

    Human - Half-Elf, Vrykul(?)
    Dwarf - Dark Iron, Wildhammer, Frostborn
    Gnome - Mecha, Leper, Sand
    Night Elf - Highborne, Satyr, Dryad(?) (or Harpy?, or High Elf?)
    Draenei - Broken, Lost One, Man'ari(?)
    Worgen - Saberon(?), Feral(?), Wolvar(?)

    Orc - Mag'har, Dragonmaw, Fel
    Tauren - Taunka, Yaungol, Grimtotem
    Troll - Zandalar , Forest, Jungle (or Ice)
    Undead - Skeletal, Ghost(?), Elf(?)
    Blood Elf - Fel, Darkfallen, Wretched
    Goblin - Gilgoblin, Hobgoblin, Pygmy(?)
    Pandaren - Furbolg(?), Grummle(?)

    The ones with question marks next to them are ones that I'm not feeling as strongly about, and I can't think of three for every race.

    Update: Added Half-Elf and Grummle, but not feeling Grummle that much.
    Last edited by Agoonga; 2013-12-22 at 03:57 AM.

  9. #329
    I see San'layn being a Blood Elf option, but they would start in the Forsaken starting zone. That's the kind of thinking I see necessary for making these ideas fun and interesting without needing too extensive of a background and excuse to implement these things.

    You make a Wildhammer, You see your dwarf in an intro like usual when you make a new character, only you see him scaling the steps of Aerie Peak the Hinterlands, hopping on a grphyon, and flying to Ironforge before being dropped off in Coldridge Valley. Just simple little tweaks like that would be cool. With a new beginner's quest using quest text to explain a bit more about context.

    There is precedent for almost every option we have here being playable arguably. I'm all for the most depth Blizzard wants to inject into the project lore wise, but I wouldn't care if they didn't add anything new at all and just let us have the options.

    The people who actually care about this from a lore standpoint should have enough knowledge of the lore and imagination to come up with their own explanation that fits canon. You'll never get rid of the people who want to make outlandish special snowflake nephews of the main characters, so it's not worth worrying about them.
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  10. #330
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Yes agreed, having played on an RP server, it is all down to self-restraint. The fact that you cannot choose a Man'ari model, for instance, does not stop people from playing their draenei as such, and this should not hinder the gameplay for people who a) do not care for the lore or b) do care but know how to show self-restraint, and can reasonably justify their character concept. I am not saying bring in the Man'ari but things like Felbloods, San'layn etc? Hell yes.

    Partially corrupted draenei (e.g. those who were exposed to Sironas) would be cool, however. I think the way you described it transpiring is what I had in mind for it too. It doesn't require massive amounts of commitment in terms of resources, and to be honest, I would rather see that than a dungeon or two. It's not like Blizzard is resource-starved, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agoonga View Post
    I think each race should get 3 subraces, seems like the perfect amount to me. In my opinion, these are what some of the subraces should be:

    Human - Vrykul(?)
    Dwarf - Dark Iron, Wildhammer, Frostborn
    Gnome - Mecha, Leper, Sand
    Night Elf - Highborne, Satyr, Dryad(?) (or Harpy?, or High Elf?)
    Draenei - Broken, Lost One, Man'ari(?)
    Worgen - Saberon(?), Feral(?), Wolvar(?)

    Orc - Mag'har, Dragonmaw, Fel
    Tauren - Taunka, Yaungol, Grimtotem
    Troll - Zandalar , Forest, Jungle (or Ice?)
    Undead - Skeletal, Ghost(?), Elf(?)
    Blood Elf - Fel, Darkfallen, Wretched
    Goblin - Gilgoblin, Hobgoblin, Pygmy(?)
    Pandaren - Furbolg(?)

    The ones with question marks next to them are ones that I'm not feeling as strongly about, and I can't think of three for every race.
    With humans, you can go with their various ethnicities, as I am sure these will vary by kingdom in some cases.

    I wouldn't go with Man'ari Eredar. These are all bound to the Legion as they are its ruling elite. Their power is also incredible, greater than that of dragons; you may ask why this isn't so with the Highborne, and in cases like Azshara's it is, but the average Shen'dralar isn't as powerful as the average Man'ari, although the Highborne in all their variants are powerful relative to other playable races.

    For Night elves, Highborne make sense, Satyr possibly (it depends on whether they can be redeemed) and I would say, due to popular demand AND the role they play in the Alliance, high elves definitely make sense.

    I like the undead and blood elf options as well.

    Fixed formulae aren't needed for this. I would think they should just add subraces where they make sense, and try to keep them balanced across factions in their offering, but certainly no need to focus on a quota per race. The ideas you put forward are mostly worthwhile pursuing.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2013-12-22 at 01:30 AM.

  11. #331
    Herald of the Titans shoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agoonga View Post
    I think each race should get 3 subraces, seems like the perfect amount to me. In my opinion, these are what some of the subraces should be:

    The ones with question marks next to them are ones that I'm not feeling as strongly about, and I can't think of three for every race.
    In my opinion, since subraces are only customization options, so Blizz shouldn't make crazy playable races that don't make lore sense as long as they give every race the same amount of additional features.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    I see San'layn being a Blood Elf option, but they would start in the Forsaken starting zone. That's the kind of thinking I see necessary for making these ideas fun and interesting without needing too extensive of a background and excuse to implement these things.

    You make a Wildhammer, You see your dwarf in an intro like usual when you make a new character, only you see him scaling the steps of Aerie Peak the Hinterlands, hopping on a grphyon, and flying to Ironforge before being dropped off in Coldridge Valley. Just simple little tweaks like that would be cool. With a new beginner's quest using quest text to explain a bit more about context.

    There is precedent for almost every option we have here being playable arguably. I'm all for the most depth Blizzard wants to inject into the project lore wise, but I wouldn't care if they didn't add anything new at all and just let us have the options.

    The people who actually care about this from a lore standpoint should have enough knowledge of the lore and imagination to come up with their own explanation that fits canon. You'll never get rid of the people who want to make outlandish special snowflake nephews of the main characters, so it's not worth worrying about them.
    Yeah, even if there were an NPC that went whoopdie-poof and could change you into a sub-race I would be more than pleased.
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  12. #332
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    It does seem like Blizzard will do a little more than that, as they're even entertaining the notion of subrace perks. There may be no new races incoming this expansion, but new models and the possibility of subraces would be awesome.

  13. #333
    Herald of the Titans shoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    With humans, you can go with their various ethnicities, as I am sure these will vary by kingdom in some cases.

    I wouldn't go with Man'ari Eredar. These are all bound to the Legion as they are its ruling elite. Their power is also incredible, greater than that of dragons; you may ask why this isn't so with the Highborne, and in cases like Azshara's it is, but the average Shen'dralar isn't as powerful as the average Man'ari, although the Highborne in all their variants are powerful relative to other playable races.
    There are low-level Man'ari Eradar, like the ones in the Draenei starting zone. Will it make lore sense? Probably not. Will it be hella rad? hella yeah!
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  14. #334
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    There are low-level Man'ari Eradar, like the ones in the Draenei starting zone. Will it make lore sense? Probably not. Will it be hella rad? hella yeah!
    Yes but bear in mind the "low level" is a matter of game mechanics, and also the fact that they have been drawn out of the Twisting Nether, which always entails some preliminary vertigo, because they are extra-planars. Strictly speaking, they are much more powerful than your character. As I said, I would find the idea of corrupted draenei interesting, e.g. the sort that can't resist toying with fel or the shadow but who aren't (yet) Eredar, and use the Eredar skins. Just not the same size or ridiculous levels of power.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    This is pretty great.

  16. #336
    Herald of the Titans shoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Yes but bear in mind the "low level" is a matter of game mechanics, and also the fact that they have been drawn out of the Twisting Nether, which always entails some preliminary vertigo, because they are extra-planars. Strictly speaking, they are much more powerful than your character. As I said, I would find the idea of corrupted draenei interesting, e.g. the sort that can't resist toying with fel or the shadow but who aren't (yet) Eredar, and use the Eredar skins. Just not the same size or ridiculous levels of power.
    That just got me thinking, what about class specific skins, like Death Knights have? Warlocks can be slightly corrupted by their channeling of demonic energy, Shamans covered in Runes, Hunters are.... hairier..?
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  17. #337
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    If they made sub-races people would have to accept the fact that some races are inherently going to have more than others.

    Some just don't make sense I doubt you're ever going to see Leper gnomes as a viable option for Gnomes because it just doesn't make sense. Same as red skinned Orcs. Mag'har and possibly Dragonmaw make sense. Wildhammer, Frostborn, and now Dark Iron all make sense for Dwarves as well.

    Although it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a Mag'har Orc start in Durotar, I think OVERALL it's a small sacrifice. Seeing red Orcs running around in any context, while cool doesn't make a whole lot of sense because story wise they aren't part of the Horde.

    Trolls for example have like MILLIONS of sub-races, but unless they welcome more tribes of Trolls into the Horde, it doesn't make sense to include any other options for Trolls at the moment. Taunka are actively part of the Horde, Yaungol are related to Tauren but not part of the Horde. While ultimately it would be cool, it does need to make a little bit of sense.

    Orc - Mag'har, Dragonmaw
    Tauren - Taunka, Grimtotem
    Troll - Nothing as of yet
    Undead - Blood Elf/High Elf Undead
    Blood Elf - Nothing really, High Elves aren't part of the Horde
    Goblin - Nothing
    Pandaren - Nothing

    Human - Probably just greater customization in skin tone
    Dwarf - Dark Iron, Wildhammer and Frostborn
    Gnomes - Nothing
    Night Elves - Highborne
    Draenei - Broken ones (I think Lost ones are too far gone, but wouldn't be opposed)
    Worgen - Nothing
    Pandaren - Nothing

    Honestly I thought it would be way more unfair, but that's pretty balanced faction wise as far as ones that make 'sense'. I like the idea that someone proposed of having the introduction be slightly different, but they just plop you in the standard area. Yeah it takes some effort, but not as much as making an entirely new starting area for a sub-race.
    Last edited by Tojara; 2013-12-22 at 02:13 AM.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    these are some of the things i would use as sub races.

    human - dont know. maybe just more customization options to make up for the lack of no sub race
    orc- mok'nathal
    tauren - taunka
    worgen - maybe night elf worgen look a bit different than human worgen
    goblins - hobgoblins
    dwarves - earthen
    forsaken - undead elves or perhaps leper gnomes
    night elves - dark trolls or high elves
    blood elves - felblood elves maybe, or maybe wretched
    draenei - broken
    pandaren - furbolg or more customization like tails for male pandaren or something
    troll - maybe forest trolls or maybe depending on how lore goes in the future some upright zandalari trolls
    For humans they should do cultist looking humans with the darker skin and markings on the eyes. Should add some other hair colors too.

  19. #339
    The Lightbringer Agoonga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by averyhotham View Post
    For humans they should do cultist looking humans with the darker skin and markings on the eyes. Should add some other hair colors too.
    Yeah I was thinking about that, that would make a good human sub-race. It's funny, you'd think Humans would have the most sub-races since they do in most RPG universes. Maybe half-elf could be a human subrace?

    But I still like the idea of them going all out with the sub-races.

  20. #340
    Herald of the Titans shoc's Avatar
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    Seriously, all it would take for most of these to make sense in the starter zones would be a new voiceover by the narrator and some lines of dialogue at most, after the first 5 levels its not going to matter anymore.
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