1. #801
    Dreadlord Areto's Avatar
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    I get the "Olive/Bluto/Popeye" dimorphism, but when it sort of defies how the race is presented in the lore, I find it a bit.. annoying? Like Night Elves are amazon, troll women are blood thirsty cannibals(for the most part), worgen are cursed wolf-beasts who has their sanity intact, so on, so forth.

    I'm not saying slider is a good option. I like it the way it is, I already spend a lot of time trying to decide how my draenei girl should look - do I want ram, or swept back horns? -and I think with a slider I wouldn't even be able to play the game because I'd be too busy making a damn character - see Guild Wars 2.

    However, I would appreciate it if the ladies got a bit more muscle, or have scarred skintones we can select, and tattooed, and some serious/ugly/wartorn looking face, as this is Warcraft and not everyone wants to play a pretty thing all the time with flawless hair and skin and a perfect hourglass figure(not saying all of them has hourglass figure.. but they sort of do).

    I'd rant about it more, but I'm too lazy and I don't want to sidetrack the purpose of the thread. I'm excited about the updates and I wish they would just do so because I'm not a patient person which is sad.

  2. #802
    High Overlord Micromadsen's Avatar
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    I wonder if blizzard would give us a choice for races like Worgen and Orcs to choose whether to have the hunch or to stand up straight.

    I mean personally I really dislike both Worgen and Orc. Not the race, god no, I freaking love both of them. But I haven't been able to "joyfully" play as one because of the hunch. If I could get them to stand up straight instead I would reroll/race change in an instant.

    And blizz has been talking about that there are quite a few people who dislike the hunch of the orc because we essentially plays as a peon instead of an orc. But some people does like it.

    So would you guys like this?

    (I guess this could essentially work for Trolls aswell?)

  3. #803
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micromadsen View Post
    I wonder if blizzard would give us a choice for races like Worgen and Orcs to choose whether to have the hunch or to stand up straight.

    I mean personally I really dislike both Worgen and Orc. Not the race, god no, I freaking love both of them. But I haven't been able to "joyfully" play as one because of the hunch. If I could get them to stand up straight instead I would reroll/race change in an instant.

    And blizz has been talking about that there are quite a few people who dislike the hunch of the orc because we essentially plays as a peon instead of an orc. But some people does like it.

    So would you guys like this?

    (I guess this could essentially work for Trolls aswell?)

    At Launch? Doubtful. For Orcs that may come later.
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  4. #804
    High Overlord Micromadsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    At Launch? Doubtful. For Orcs that may come later.
    My question was if you guys would like it. The other part was just me wondering. However blizz is probably not ever going to do this because blizzard is blizzard and they usually have a bunch of reasons not to do something that would please the fanbase.

  5. #805
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    LMAO @ pic /applaud

    This picture by Wei Wang is, to me, the pinaccle of the female orc.


    Brutal, scarred, battle-hardened, with the femininity only a secondary aspect. Not that you can see much of her anatomy...


    Also, FUCK YES EQ NEXT looks amazing. That and Wildstar have me seething and chomping at the bit. They both also have really fun looking movement mechanics. Which will make them the first MMO since WOW to really achieve that IMO.
    I'm really not interested in Wildstar due to their subscription/F2P model, but as an old EQ player and fan of stylized art, I'm definitely looking forward to EQ Next, and hoping that SoE doesn't fuck it up like they always do.

  6. #806
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    This picture by Wei Wang is, to me, the pinaccle of the female orc.


    Brutal, scarred, battle-hardened, with the femininity only a secondary aspect. Not that you can see much of her anatomy...



    I'm really not interested in Wildstar due to their subscription/F2P model, but as an old EQ player and fan of stylized art, I'm definitely looking forward to EQ Next, and hoping that SoE doesn't fuck it up like they always do.

    I -love- Wei Wang's stuff, and Blizzard seems to take his designs to heart. I think Vol'jin's new design was based on the battle mosaic he created. Could also be that they told him to draw Vol'jin like that, but the Worgen females he drew were also similar to the alpha models. Which is one other reason I like the alpha models more than the current ones.


    It's also why I have some hope that we'll have the option to make our Draenei look a bit more exotic and mature, like:





    I don't want them to remove the 'cutesy' faces. I just want the option to have a face like that. Same for the horn style. I do think the new models should have longer tails though, and they probably wouldn't allow players to choose, even if I've suggested a new customization slot (like hairstyles) for tail lengths, styles, jewelry, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  7. #807
    Dreadlord Areto's Avatar
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    Dat tail ;-; I'm not against displaying feminine touches but like.. when your warrior looks like bikini model complete with boob window/platekini armor it just doesn't make sense. ((platekini is something that will never make sense to me. You're a warrior, why the heck would you reveal all your vital organs like your heart, lungs, stomach, bowels.. etc))

    See, that orc I actually like as a face. She's wild with her long bushy hair and heavy armor, it's clear she has seen many wars and lost almost none. I like that shizzle. And that draenei is super elegant, which is very characteristic, as I think she's a priestess. I love her long horns and sharp cheekbones/features, and looooong tail, long fluffy hair.. Perfect. :>

    I do hope they give draenei longer tails. :< Both genders, might I add.

  8. #808
    When looking at all the drawn art, I do wish that characters could have such voluminous hairstyles. Wei's female Orc picture shows a hairstyle I would love to have for my female Orc. The female Draenei he has drawn has hair which reaches till her lower back; I would want that length too but so far only the female Worgen and Night Elves have the longest hairstyles (female Pandaren too but only as a ponytail) and they still seem too short for what is possible. It may cause some clipping with sheathed weapons and shields, but damn... I would look past that so easily just to have some good looking hair.

    What bothers me still about the so far revealed players models, especially the dwarf, are the toes. While we won't see bare feet all too often in-game, seeing the models in their undies makes me aware of how some of the toes look painfully broken because of the toe nail position. It is such a minor thing, but my eyes keep getting drawn to them unwillingly.
    And of course, the Gnome still has four fingers and five toes. I am not sure if that is a mix-up or intentional but it just seems weird.

    As for the Orc hunch.... Someone here on the forums made a very nice and simple background of the 'war lords' lining up and I was looking at it earlier today, only to notice that most of the Orcs are standing up straight (Gul'dan not included). It made me wonder if it is this a cinematic thing only for Orcs or might it become an animation thing? You know, like with the trolls where they stretch to their full length and rolls their shoulders before slinking back into a hunched position again. (Or perhaps it will become an option, who knows.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralo View Post
    You know, Garrosh seems larger than your average orc. Not sure if Im seeing things or not. Might be the armor.

    *snip image*

    Comparatively the new orcs seem less hunched over.
    Garrosh's model looks bigger because his shoulders and neck are much bigger than that of the Orc player model. It seems Blizzard cropped it down a little, but the hunch is still the very same if you use the rotation option on the website. The only time Garrosh doesn't hunch is in the MoP cinematics (together with other Orcs).

  9. #809
    Quote Originally Posted by Areto View Post
    Dat tail ;-; I'm not against displaying feminine touches but like.. when your warrior looks like bikini model complete with boob window/platekini armor it just doesn't make sense. ((platekini is something that will never make sense to me. You're a warrior, why the heck would you reveal all your vital organs like your heart, lungs, stomach, bowels.. etc))

    See, that orc I actually like as a face. She's wild with her long bushy hair and heavy armor, it's clear she has seen many wars and lost almost none. I like that shizzle. And that draenei is super elegant, which is very characteristic, as I think she's a priestess. I love her long horns and sharp cheekbones/features, and looooong tail, long fluffy hair.. Perfect. :>

    I do hope they give draenei longer tails. :< Both genders, might I add.

    Yes. I am such a fan of Wei's work. His designs are awesome. But yeah, I would like to have the option to look more like that. Like you said, more exotic, elegant, sharp cheekbones. Apparently, some people find her ugly, and that boggles me. It really does puzzle me. I don't understand it. If anything, I think WoW could use some wise, experienced women, which Draenei are supposed to be. It bothers me in two ways. That the race of creatures that are capable of living over 50k years have Blood Elf babyfaces right now (actually, those faces don't even fit Blood Elves) looking as cutesy as most humanoid races in WoW.


    On the other side, what makes it even more bothersome is that they are supposed to be alien. I could believe that with the Draenei design I linked above. The current Draenei, no matter how many people may like them and think they are 'sexy' look like Blood Elf females cosplaying Draenei. I don't see 'alien'.


    About Blood Elves.. their faces are also horrible cutesy babyfaces. While they should look more like:



    So the Blood Elf faces they ripped away from those models and pasted onto the Draenei doesn't even fit them.


    And yes, Draenei males should also have longer tails. In fact, I think they should look like Velen.




    Also, -coincidentally- (not really) Wei art. The dude just draws characters well. I would be proud of playing a Draenei male like that. Not the current one, with its goofy barrelchest and wristless arms. Oh, and its 'porn 'stache'.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  10. #810
    Dreadlord Areto's Avatar
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    "porn stache" oh god now I won't be able to unsee. I never played draenei male. Did level a dwarf male once, and a worgen because the females are just way, way too ugly for me to level one with a straight face. That's why the lock I have has her face covered up, though her glitching mane is troublesome.
    Anyway.

    Baby/pretty faces should exist in both genders, I think. Just like wartorn srs face should exist on both sides just as well. I'm just afraid they'll slap the same face on all females like they did with the pandaren females - males does have slight differences while the females just have different markings, just saying - and there'll be no variety. At all. Or you'd have to pick a certain skin tone just so it would look different. Think, when they give Wildhammer dwarf tattoos to males, but not females. I'll probably cry ;<

    I digress.

    Velen is a good example, but keep in mind Velen is ancient. Though all Draenei are supposedly immortal -agewise- not everyone would like to play an ancient Draenei. But I understand your wish. As I said, I just hope they give us roleplaying kind -or anyone who cares about what their character looks like, really - a little bit of an option.

  11. #811
    Quote Originally Posted by Narna View Post
    Monstrous creature? That sir, is a sexy bamf, channeling his mojo into that doll. 10/10.
    *Pssst* /whisper: It's just politics. Wait until me second term,....


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Micromadsen View Post
    I wonder if blizzard would give us a choice for races like Worgen and Orcs to choose whether to have the hunch or to stand up straight.

    I mean personally I really dislike both Worgen and Orc. Not the race, god no, I freaking love both of them. But I haven't been able to "joyfully" play as one because of the hunch. If I could get them to stand up straight instead I would reroll/race change in an instant.

    And blizz has been talking about that there are quite a few people who dislike the hunch of the orc because we essentially plays as a peon instead of an orc. But some people does like it.

    So would you guys like this?

    (I guess this could essentially work for Trolls aswell?)
    9 year old issue. Only the orcs have a hunch in the game they never had in the media or artwork or other Warcraft games. Even PEONS had no hunch, the hunch just makes you think of peons from the visual lexicon on caricature/cartoon art. It elicits the image of a pea brain lack wit, or else some old arthritic orc shaman hermit, or else some twisted vile old orc warlock.

    Worgen have ALWAYS had hunches, it's not a matter of just being something you don't like in this instance with orcs, it's got to do with a hunch they never had in the first place. Orcs may change because orcs were given the hunch presumably to the extreme they have it in a desire to make their silhouette instantly recognizable in a game depending on racial/ethnic warfare. But they over did it. Which is why since Cataclysm every single orc they've put in a cut scene or customized had their hunch "fixed". We have many diagrams to show you, and we love to show our diagrams,.... yes, precious.

    Here is Chris Robinson tweeting about the orc hunch last month.

    Make of that what you will. He's mentioned comically when asked about other races into a possible look into troll growth hormone, they have a lot of ambitious concepts in the air from what can be gleaned in his answers it seems, but Orcs are special in that they were given the hunch only in WOW, it's not equivocal precisely to say their fix will create a precedent, but it bodes well for future options. But any "jealousy" stemming from the fix is puerile and offenders will be summarily thrown into the belly of the Sarlac Pit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    This picture by Wei Wang is, to me, the pinaccle of the female orc.


    Brutal, scarred, battle-hardened, with the femininity only a secondary aspect. Not that you can see much of her anatomy...



    I'm really not interested in Wildstar due to their subscription/F2P model, but as an old EQ player and fan of stylized art, I'm definitely looking forward to EQ Next, and hoping that SoE doesn't fuck it up like they always do.
    My favorite image as well.
    Not sure why a sub fee makes any impact on your opinion, but to each their own I suppose.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I -love- Wei Wang's stuff, and Blizzard seems to take his designs to heart. I think Vol'jin's new design was based on the battle mosaic he created. Could also be that they told him to draw Vol'jin like that, but the Worgen females he drew were also similar to the alpha models. Which is one other reason I like the alpha models more than the current ones.


    It's also why I have some hope that we'll have the option to make our Draenei look a bit more exotic and mature, like:





    I don't want them to remove the 'cutesy' faces. I just want the option to have a face like that. Same for the horn style. I do think the new models should have longer tails though, and they probably wouldn't allow players to choose, even if I've suggested a new customization slot (like hairstyles) for tail lengths, styles, jewelry, etc.
    One of Robinsons personal wishes I believe was longer tails to waggle when he was asked about his own desires. I may be wrong but I'm fairly certain.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Areto View Post
    Dat tail ;-; I'm not against displaying feminine touches but like.. when your warrior looks like bikini model complete with boob window/platekini armor it just doesn't make sense. ((platekini is something that will never make sense to me. You're a warrior, why the heck would you reveal all your vital organs like your heart, lungs, stomach, bowels.. etc))

    See, that orc I actually like as a face. She's wild with her long bushy hair and heavy armor, it's clear she has seen many wars and lost almost none. I like that shizzle. And that draenei is super elegant, which is very characteristic, as I think she's a priestess. I love her long horns and sharp cheekbones/features, and looooong tail, long fluffy hair.. Perfect. :>

    I do hope they give draenei longer tails. :< Both genders, might I add.
    I dont use platekinis in my artwork, but I do kind of get weary of the old cannard against them. Many cultures actually did wear very little armor in battle and wore things similar to that, the logic being you had open your own gap in your armor designed to be the place you know they would strike, and often armor was not really used to protect your entire body, more like a series of focal points and ways to block and grapple with your arm while being free to move unencumbered, many sword fighting styles involved holding the actual blade like a spear as well, as razor sharp edges were not really common in many sword designs. And in actual cultures in India and Egypt where the human body was never a taboo nude, revealing armor was also used.

    Still, I like plate armor to cover a woman as much as a man, and don't care for scantily clad armor either. But the whole thing about it not making sense is kind of not so black and white. Often armor offered little protection in the first place and was more decoration and intimidation than protection. Not to be contrationa, just interesting trivia.
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  12. #812
    Herald of the Titans shoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post

    One of Robinsons personal wishes I believe was longer tails to waggle when he was asked about his own desires. I may be wrong but I'm fairly certain.
    I know it's been mentioned somewhere but have they specifically stated that tails are going to have their own animations, similar to how capes got a chain of bones and animations? As far as I know we haven't seen any tail animations from Blizzard yet, hopefully the previews this week changes that.
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  13. #813
    Dreadlord Areto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    I dont use platekinis in my artwork, but I do kind of get weary of the old cannard against them. Many cultures actually did wear very little armor in battle and wore things similar to that, the logic being you had open your own gap in your armor designed to be the place you know they would strike, and often armor was not really used to protect your entire body, more like a series of focal points and ways to block and grapple with your arm while being free to move unencumbered, many sword fighting styles involved holding the actual blade like a spear as well, as razor sharp edges were not really common in many sword designs. And in actual cultures in India and Egypt where the human body was never a taboo nude, revealing armor was also used.

    Still, I like plate armor to cover a woman as much as a man, and don't care for scantily clad armor either. But the whole thing about it not making sense is kind of not so black and white. Often armor offered little protection in the first place and was more decoration and intimidation than protection. Not to be contrationa, just interesting trivia.
    Hm. I never thought about it like that, nor knew about this little bit of information. I mean, I only know of barbarians using very little clothing as a sort of intimidation tactic, as in "I'm so good I don't even need to cover myself, I'll kill you with my bare hands" sort of manner.

    But thank you for the trivia!

  14. #814
    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    On WOW females, here's some rarely seen Vanilla concept art, another good idea of where we may be going though she seems to have lost the junk in her trunk in these depictions, give her a bit of Botticelli volume and voilà.
    Oooh, I quite like this. Give us something like this Blizz, please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Klaxxar
    -Orc female picture-
    I think I have to agree with some others. She looks a bit too soft to be an Orc. I could see that being a Half-Orc, but an Orc needs more tone and definition. I much prefer Kathranis' rendition, with the Warsong Orc Lady leaping with shield and axe.

    I also love the concept art Yarathir posted for the female Draenei and Blood Elf. Q_Q I can dream... Oh, and it would be amazing if they made the female Worgen more like their Alpha counterparts. Just take those for your Worgen rebuild, Blizz!

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  15. #815
    Quote Originally Posted by Lodovica View Post

    As for the Orc hunch.... Someone here on the forums made a very nice and simple background of the 'war lords' lining up and I was looking at it earlier today, only to notice that most of the Orcs are standing up straight (Gul'dan not included). It made me wonder if it is this a cinematic thing only for Orcs or might it become an animation thing? You know, like with the trolls where they stretch to their full length and rolls their shoulders before slinking back into a hunched position again. (Or perhaps it will become an option, who knows.)



    Garrosh's model looks bigger because his shoulders and neck are much bigger than that of the Orc player model. It seems Blizzard cropped it down a little, but the hunch is still the very same if you use the rotation option on the website. The only time Garrosh doesn't hunch is in the MoP cinematics (together with other Orcs).
    Again, yes, you're right. Orcs have no hunch anywhere in any Warcraft game or Warcraft art outside of WOW. It's only something they put in WOW, and it's a mistake they've been fixing. See? You spoke of these examples.

    Jade forest intro: No hunch. Their trapezius muscle size creates the illusion of a hunch.


    This is the "correct" look.


    Here are some photoshop edits I did to Garrosh to show a player model updated to Garrosh's quality with "correct" orc posture.
    Original image:

    My edits:


    The Vanilla orc player model loses his hunch and goes into his correct posture when moving backwards, shooting, toggled in combat in many weapon poses, and wherever mounted on a saddle. They only hunch when they hold still or run forward. That hunch should be removed completely if this becomes an option and they will appear in the neutral posture of my demonstrations in theory. Search the forum for ORC HUNCH and you will find many, many threads filled with many, many pages going back 9 years about this single issue.

    Even here crouched for combat, his head is raised to the level it "should" be.


    Here you see his correct posture while back in the saddle again. Luck be a lady tonight.


    It's funny there are around only two examples in official Blizzard out of all that exists that have the hunch in game and this is because they are deliberately patterned to look like the game's model. %99.9 of all Blizzard orc art has no hunch, unless you look in the Trading Card Game and Fan Art area.

    As to your question, yes, at the moment they are considering this being an option and working out what would go into the project. See this tweet.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    I know it's been mentioned somewhere but have they specifically stated that tails are going to have their own animations, similar to how capes got a chain of bones and animations? As far as I know we haven't seen any tail animations from Blizzard yet, hopefully the previews this week changes that.
    Not to my knowledge but I imagine they would, I see it in my head clearly, vividly, intrinsically, curving around like an S, reminding me of Night Crawler or something.
    I will keep an eye out for it and let you know if I see anything.
    Last edited by Yig; 2014-01-25 at 11:07 AM.
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  16. #816
    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    It's basically a kick ass Vryjul, god I love Vrykul. I used to sit for hours in WOTLK in physical discomfort yearning for the day our player models would look that cool, I never expected it to happen. The Goblins and Worgen males exceeded my expectations, and then Pandaren just tore my brain out of my skull and threw it in a Brewmasters keg.

    Vry-kuuuuuuuuuuuuul!

    I want them to be playable so badly. Make them as tall as Tauren, a man can dream. A man can dream. Ah,... a man can dream.
    I hate to correct someone who apparently love Vrykul as much as me, but the undead Vrykul are called Vargul.

    Yes, I too dream of a day where we can play Vrykul. Until then, every character of mine takes up Archeaology and digs in Northrend until they find that Drinking Horn! The day they corrected the Helm to not block Dwarven beards anymore was one of the happiest days of my WoW-career.

    BTW, this has been one of my favorite threads in a long time. Have a feeling it will die when the new models are revealed, but all you guys are great!

  17. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by Futhark View Post
    I hate to correct someone who apparently love Vrykul as much as me, but the undead Vrykul are called Vargul.

    Yes, I too dream of a day where we can play Vrykul. Until then, every character of mine takes up Archeaology and digs in Northrend until they find that Drinking Horn! The day they corrected the Helm to not block Dwarven beards anymore was one of the happiest days of my WoW-career.

    BTW, this has been one of my favorite threads in a long time. Have a feeling it will die when the new models are revealed, but all you guys are great!
    I am a man of science, sir (or man loving avatar'd lady), and I consider it among the highest of honors to learn I am wrong and to know I am corrected upon something. Gratitude.

    I had no idea Vargul was a word. You've done something rare in my 9 years of WOW-man-hood. I bow down to thee, as I am improve-ed now as a being, made better for this expanded knowledge. Something fresh and new,... /bow

    And what's this drinking horn do? I still havent' looked into archaeology too much, when it's really right up my alley. I'm kind of waiting for some better rewards, like racial armor for transmogging. It's the perfect vehicle for such a thing. I can look like a Vrykul with the horn?

    I keep my Deathbringer's Will for this, but that's so random.
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  18. #818
    Dreadlord Areto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    I am a man of science, sir (or man loving avatar'd lady), and I consider it among the highest of honors to learn I am wrong and to know I am corrected upon something. Gratitude.

    I had no idea Vargul was a word. You've done something rare in my 9 years of WOW-man-hood. I bow down to thee, as I am improve-ed now as a being, made better for this expanded knowledge. Something fresh and new,... /bow

    And what's this drinking horn do? I still havent' looked into archaeology too much, when it's really right up my alley. I'm kind of waiting for some better rewards, like racial armor for transmogging. It's the perfect vehicle for such a thing. I can look like a Vrykul with the horn?

    I keep my Deathbringer's Will for this, but that's so random.
    The drinking horn enlarges your character and dons a metal helm with horns.



    Like this :>

  19. #819
    Herald of the Titans shoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Futhark View Post
    I hate to correct someone who apparently love Vrykul as much as me, but the undead Vrykul are called Vargul.

    Yes, I too dream of a day where we can play Vrykul. Until then, every character of mine takes up Archeaology and digs in Northrend until they find that Drinking Horn! The day they corrected the Helm to not block Dwarven beards anymore was one of the happiest days of my WoW-career.

    BTW, this has been one of my favorite threads in a long time. Have a feeling it will die when the new models are revealed, but all you guys are great!
    With the Human previews I'll be mocking up the Vrykul-born Azotha, Which are basically just Humans with more body hair, snarlier facial features and Nordic facial hair, as well as runic skin markings a-la Ymiron.

    Shrek is love, Shrek is life.

  20. #820
    Dreadlord Areto's Avatar
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    Hngh, Ymiron. Seriously, though. What I wouldn't give to make my rogue look like a Vyrkul lady. The women look so pretty in Northrend, all tall with broad shoulders and... *-*

    Cannot wait.

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