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  1. #981
    Dreadlord Lahis's Avatar
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    Felblood elves betrayed the Sin'dorei, attacked Silvermoon City, took over the Sunwell and almost succeeded in summoning Kil'Jaeden to Azeroth. They also bathed in demon blood to turn themselves into demons.

    Now, a few years later they are supposed to come back knocking at the gates of Silvermoon, say "Weve sowwy" and be accepted back into Sin'Dorei society? It's more likely they'll be flayed alive if they ever step on Azeroth again.

    Next you'll propably suggest adding Eredar as a subrace for Draenei.
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  2. #982
    The Patient Shanxys's Avatar
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    Death Knights betrayed humanity, planned on plaguing the entire planet turning everything into undead, ravaged an entire continent, followed a former Alliance prince who betrayed his own race and killed their king, fought with monstrocities stitched with the remains of dead innocent lives, killed endless amounts of families, planned to commit genocide and plague entire areas killing everything in their wake and bringing it back as a mindless abomination... Yeah. They're hanging out in Orgrimmar and Stormwind at the moment drinking beer and laughing about it.

    You'd say the same thing about them being ''flayed alive'' when all they got was rotten fruit thrown at them.

    Next you'll probably suggest removing Worgen from the Alliance because ''they're still uncontrollable of their free will and will probably turn ferocious on everyone''



    You can favor your ridiculous night elves but you won't disregard a playable sub-race which is ''your video game lore enemy'' because it's nonsense. What's next, attack someone irl for wearing a Horde T-shirt or listening to music you don't like? Stop opposing because you're not helping at anything posting negative feedback, you're doing the opposite.

  3. #983
    Pit Lord shoc's Avatar
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    Scratch Felbloods, they are probably too far gone to be redeemed at this point. I propose Half Elves for Blood Elves, meaning that there will be Half Elf-Humans on the Horde. Would that make sense? I would understand if there were a ton of Blood Elf players that would want to RP as Half Elves
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  4. #984
    Dreadlord Lahis's Avatar
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    Death Knights in the service of the Lich King weren't free willed. After being reanimated as a Death Knight they had no choice but to obey Lich King's commands. It wasn't untill the Battle of Light's Hope that the Knights of the Ebon Blade managed to free from (then weakened) Lich King's grasp.

    Felblood Elves on the other hand willingly succumbed to demonic energies and razed their own homeland. The Scryers and Liandrin's Blood Knight's saw what was going on and thus left from Kaelthas'es forces.
    Last edited by Lahis; 2014-01-26 at 06:40 PM.
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  5. #985
    These are pretty neat.

  6. #986
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Felblood elves serve Kael'Thas and the BURNING LEGION.
    Again, I don't see this as a problem. They became that way following certain methods of draining Terrorguards - this is risky but as with Illidan (who is pretty much a night elf variant of a felblood), it's not something that is beyond the realm of possibility. Sure, their kinsmen would probably shun them, but that's the case with DKs as it is. The fact that they followed the Legion was unrelated to their form. You can use the same argument against other proposed subraces, e.g. Darkfallen, fel orcs, hell you could even use it against DKs not too long ago. The problem with Kael'thas and the felbloods was the fact that they followed Kil'jaeden. Again, no one needs to like them or fraternise with them. We have druids, paladins and priests of the Light working with warlocks, shadow priests and DKs in raids as it is - where does the supposed impossibility figure in?

    I think Shanxys's provides a decent rationale for their inclusion as a subrace, but they need not even be accepted. DKs aren't, by and large, by their own people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    Scratch Felbloods, they are probably too far gone to be redeemed at this point. I propose Half Elves for Blood Elves, meaning that there will be Half Elf-Humans on the Horde. Would that make sense? I would understand if there were a ton of Blood Elf players that would want to RP as Half Elves
    Nah, fuck that. I don't want half elves. They're bad enough for humans, as it is, it'd be even worse having them pollute blood elf subrace choices. Unless an argument can be shown that to be a felblood, you had to follow the Legion, the whole proposition collapses. Warlocks willingly use fel, and demonology warlocks willingly aim to assume a demonic form. All a felblood does is make this transformation permanent.

    Regarding DKs, they weren't all that controlled, as the likes of Thassarian and Koltira prove, who already had a modicum of free will before the formation of the Ebon Blade. Sure, probably most had no control over their will, but whether that was to the extent that a ghoul was subservient to the Scourge is questionable. Many of the higher ranking undead have more freedom of will than the lessers, e.g. lichs. Interestingly, some lichs joined the Forsaken, and some are independent.

    If felbloods are a poor choice, how much worse would the spawn of a union between the blood elves and a race they perceive betrayed them? In all likelihood, they were put to the sword before they even joined the Horde. They were not even liked before the racial split of the blood and high elves.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2014-01-26 at 08:01 PM.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  7. #987
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Again, I don't see this as a problem. They became that way following certain methods of draining Terrorguards - this is risky but as with Illidan (who is pretty much a night elf variant of a felblood), it's not something that is beyond the realm of possibility. Sure, their kinsmen would probably shun them, but that's the case with DKs as it is. The fact that they followed the Legion was unrelated to their form. You can use the same argument against other proposed subraces, e.g. Darkfallen, fel orcs, hell you could even use it against DKs not too long ago.
    No you can't. Fel Anything doesn't work should never be on the Horde. It's hypocritcal. Also Death Knights didn't have a choice in being dark. Fel Orcs Fel Blood Elves did. So no, wrong.
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  8. #988
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    No you can't. Fel Anything doesn't work should never be on the Horde. It's hypocritcal. Also Death Knights didn't have a choice in being dark. Fel Orcs Fel Blood Elves did. So no, wrong.
    I am afraid you are making my argument for me. If "fel anything" should "never" be in the Horde, lets remove orc, blood elf, goblin and forsaken demonology warlocks. Hell, lets remove warlocks altogether, and the Forsaken and sin'dorei while we're at it. Anything less would be "hypocritical".

    The Horde isn't one homogeneous empire and never has been. The Forsaken and sin'dorei constitute their own sub-faction(s), more or less, just like the draenei and kaldorei in Alliance.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  9. #989
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    I am afraid you are making my argument for me. If "fel anything" should "never" be in the Horde, lets remove orc, blood elf, goblin and forsaken demonology warlocks. Hell, lets remove warlocks altogether, and the Forsaken and sin'dorei while we're at it. Anything less would be "hypocritical".

    The Horde isn't one homogeneous empire and never has been. The Forsaken and sin'dorei constitute their own sub-faction(s), more or less, just like the draenei and kaldorei in Alliance.
    Considering how stubborn you are being I don't think I should explain why Fel anything is bad.
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  10. #990
    Blademaster Shadowtwili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    No you can't. Fel Anything doesn't work should never be on the Horde. It's hypocritcal. Also Death Knights didn't have a choice in being dark. Fel Orcs Fel Blood Elves did. So no, wrong.
    Oh, oke! didn't know drink the Blood or die was free will for the Orcs.

    What you also seem to forget is that, when the Fel Orcs became Fel Orcs, they where still under the spell of the Burning Legion, making it something out of their control, since their Daemonic master forced them to drink it.

    The FelBlood Elves, I partially agree with, but because they where in withdrawel and used the teachings of Illidan to sate their addiction, but they engorged themselves to much and became FelBlood Elves loyal to Kael'thas, not the Burning Legion(allthough Kael was loyal to the Legion).

    And lets be honest, if the Kaldorei can accept a Satyr in their mids, because he was seeking redemption, why couldn't the Sin'dorei do the same for the Fel-Sin'dorei?

  11. #991
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Considering how stubborn you are being I don't think I should explain why Fel anything is bad.
    I understand why it is "bad", but we've already allowed warlocks in the Horde, particularly amongst the two EK races but also amongst the goblins, who are more or less amoral. The only forces in the Horde that have much opposition to fel are the orcs (who seem unable to resist dark powers of any kind), the Tauren and to a degree, the trolls.

    Again, like DKs any fel-tainted variant could be shunned etc., but there's nothing prohibiting their addition as a subrace.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  12. #992
    Blademaster Shadowtwili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Considering how stubborn you are being I don't think I should explain why Fel anything is bad.
    The (wo)man has a point though, if Fel anything doesn't work in the Horde, then the Orcs and Sin'dorei have no place in the Horde, since Green Orcs and Sin'dorei are Fel corrupted(slight) versions of their own original races.

    Fel Orcs and Fel-Sin'dorei are just more Fel-something then the Orcs and Sin'dorei, who are just Fel-something versions of the Mag'har Orcs and Quel'dorei.

  13. #993
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Very much a man.

    As for the matter in question, the Forsaken wield the powers the Scourge itself once wielded (under the pretext of racial 'survival', bit familiar that), in addition to fel and the shadow. The ship of "fel has no place in the Horde" has long since sailed.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  14. #994
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowtwili View Post
    Oh, oke! didn't know drink the Blood or die was free will for the Orcs.

    What you also seem to forget is that, when the Fel Orcs became Fel Orcs, they where still under the spell of the Burning Legion, making it something out of their control, since their Daemonic master forced them to drink it.

    The FelBlood Elves, I partially agree with, but because they where in withdrawel and used the teachings of Illidan to sate their addiction, but they engorged themselves to much and became FelBlood Elves loyal to Kael'thas, not the Burning Legion(allthough Kael was loyal to the Legion).

    And lets be honest, if the Kaldorei can accept a Satyr in their mids, because he was seeking redemption, why couldn't the Sin'dorei do the same for the Fel-Sin'dorei?
    No they drank it willingly. They weren't unwilling slaves like the Lich King. They just brainlessly went along with it. They weren't under any spell of the Burning Legion, they drank demon's blood willingly. There was no spell. The Satyr wanted acceptance yes but it's one out of many and Fel Elune intervened and morphed him into a Night Elf again so no your arguments don't fly.

    Most of these I see is "JUSt CAUSE" and try and bend the lore to their will. Fel Orcs SHOULD NEVER be on the Horde. The same goes with Fel Blood Elves. Same goes for Man'ari Eredar on the Alliance. Some of the other races will just be left out because of how the lore is designed.

    I can give a list in a few minutes for all the races. It just will take awhile and maybe if Shoc is bored I'll force him to do it. (Sarcasm).


    Very much a man.
    As for the matter in question, the Forsaken wield the powers the Scourge itself once wielded (under the pretext of racial 'survival', bit familiar that), in addition to fel and the shadow. The ship of "fel has no place in the Horde" has long since sailed.
    It shouldn't. Fel is a NO NO for the Orcs, No ifs ands or buts.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2014-01-26 at 07:58 PM. Reason: QUOTE SYSTEM FAILS|
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  15. #995
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    The only problem with the Eredar is the amount of power they possess, and that they rule the Burning Legion, and so have no incentive to leave it or turn against it. I'd have no issue with a corrupted draenei variant, however.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  16. #996
    Mechagnome Areto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post


    I kept the differences from being too distinct, but they could obviously pushed further. Bigger difference would be in their default postures, which would create a distinct silhouette (think of the difference between the Lich King and a normal human, even though they use the same bones and base model).

    Oohhh, they look great! I see what you mean - just slight differences can make a huge.. difference.

  17. #997
    Blademaster Shadowtwili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    No they drank it willingly. They weren't unwilling slaves like the Lich King. They just brainlessly went along with it. They weren't under any spell of the Burning Legion, they drank demon's blood willingly. There was no spell. The Satyr wanted acceptance yes but it's one out of many and Fel Elune intervened and morphed him into a Night Elf again so no your arguments don't fly.
    Oké, so the Orcs also willingly slaughtered thousands of innocents, corrupted their own planet so that it became near un-inhabitable, they willingly raped Draenei, they willingly commited mass-slaughter on Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes and Quel'dorei and willingly commited near genocide on Draenei, so the arguments of hundreds(thousands?) of frothing Orcish fanbois don't fly either, since, you know, they weren't under any spell and had total, complete free will to do anything they want.

    And who said he is the only one? for all we known their could be hundreds of Satyr seeking redemption, or him bieng the only one, either way we don't know, if Blizzard where to decide that hundreds/thousands of Satyr seek redemption they can add it all they want, and the same goes for the Fel Orcs/Fel-Sin'dorei.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Most of these I see is "JUSt CAUSE" and try and bend the lore to their will. Fel Orcs SHOULD NEVER be on the Horde. The same goes with Fel Blood Elves. Same goes for Man'ari Eredar on the Alliance. Some of the other races will just be left out because of how the lore is designed.
    Most I see is "JUST CAUSE" and then trying to bend the Lore so that it does not make sense for why they shouldn't be in the Horde.

    Also, who are you to decide that Fel Orcs/Fel-Sin'dorei should never be part of the Horde? None of us supporters made a statement like "Fel Orcs SHOULD LOGICALLY be in the Horde", atleast we try to come up with stories for how/when/why they should join the Horde, you did that too(arguments against why they should be in the Horde), but the moment you got someone disagreeing with you, you immediatly went SHOULD NEVER, wich to me reads like this: "MY OPINION IS BETTER AND MORE RIGHT THEN YOURS".

    Also, Quartermaster Dekrok says hi (wowhead, wowpedia or wowwiki him).

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It shouldn't. Fel is a NO NO for the Orcs, No ifs ands or buts.
    *cough* Orcish, Goblin, Trollish, Forsaken and Sin'dorei Warlocks all say hi, or that one Orcish Warlock that openly served in the Horde military in Pandaria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    The only problem with the Eredar is the amount of power they possess, and that they rule the Burning Legion, and so have no incentive to leave it or turn against it. I'd have no issue with a corrupted draenei variant, however.
    Broken Draenei are Fel Corrupted Draenei that have been shown to wield Fel Magicks, same goes for the Draenei Lost Ones.

  18. #998
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    Scratch Felbloods, they are probably too far gone to be redeemed at this point. I propose Half Elves for Blood Elves, meaning that there will be Half Elf-Humans on the Horde. Would that make sense? I would understand if there were a ton of Blood Elf players that would want to RP as Half Elves
    I was tweaking your model for fun last night. I've been staring at it too long and I'm note sure if I like what I did or not.

    Personally though I find half elves really boring.
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  19. #999
    Mechagnome Areto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    I was tweaking your model for fun last night. I've been staring at it too long and I'm note sure if I like what I did or not.

    Personally though I find half elves really boring.
    Maybe the chin/jaw should be a but slimmer? Love her eyes and her "noble/highborne" look. :>

  20. #1000
    Pandaren Monk NuLogic's Avatar
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    I love you shoc!

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