1. #1221
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i would consider rolling a night elf if they made the eye wrap look good or gave us those cool tattoos.

    and i dislike night elves greatly


    I love the Night Elf player models. Fuckin' love em. All their concept art is great and I think the models in game look a lot like Samwise draws them. My only problem is their default at rest posture looks so stiff. Way too symmetrical and uptight.





    As soon as you look at them from the side or 3/4ths angle they look great to me, for the most part, or if you mouse look with their head by holding down R click and turning their head to the side.



    I really adore their side profile, so harsh and extreme, the strong beaked nose, the jut of the chin.




    When they spread their feet apart a little more naturally and look down when opening their map, it suddenly makes them pretty much perfect to me. I just wish they didn't have a stick back up their arse when they put their map away. Doesn't a wannabe demon hunter look funny reading a map with a blindfold on? Sometimes I sit there in town remarking on how I can't see anything in /say while feeling silly.

    But I think it's big improvement when you seen them just distributing their weight more naturally. Their feet more spread apart.
    If their weight distribution was more natural I'd pretty much be fine, just as the new dwarf looks compared to the old one, I hope to see the same kind of thing in the new night elf.






    I CANT WAIT! But as for the original design I specifically LIKE their huge hands and feet and no wrists, and their big floppy ears. Things I know many people hate, but I love it. This is odd being as I'm usually a dwarf freak with the bearded heart of a beard dwarf with my heard even having a beard of it's own, but I have a love for gritty elves probably owed to my love of mythology and the Elf quest comic book from Wendy Pini. This specific painting here in 2004 is what pushed me into buying WOW. I loved the look of this fairy tale old growth forest and the more tribal wild elves paired with the vibrant over saturated colors, I wanted to go to this land and escape reality there. And I loved his big ass boots and gauntlets. It's just fun to draw things like that, and I feel the fun coming from the artist when they do it, kind of like a weird telekinetic exchange of whimsical fun. The energy (not metaphysical woo but aesthetic) in an artist's form and line weight, all that was amazing to see in a video game for the first time really in WOW with minimalist artists working in constrained limited visual asset budgets to bleed whatever they could from the sponge.







    This TCG card art of the Druid Tharal Wildbreeze makes me giggle with pleasure at how far the artist pushed it. Big shoulders, tiny waist, giant hands, big ears.
    You guys would probably hate to see the way I draw Night Elves lately if I scanned any of my shit from the last 2 years. I pretty much take this and go with it.







    Illidan's new model is pretty much perfect as a compromise for us all and I can't wait to see if they go in that direction. In a way he's a little too realistic for me, but I know all of you appreciate it who aren't too big on the whimsy like me. I think it's a solid compromise.





    These original concept art drawings are my favorite when it comes to what I want the player models to look based on. Male and female.
    This is like, THE DEFINITIVE for me. Ripped muscles, huge shoulders, tiny exaggerated waist, I just seem them charging around like
    brick houses slamming through walls while lithe and acrobatic at the same time, like a ninja orc.


    Would love a bald top know for a female like this warden has.

    And the clawed jewelry worn by this huntress.




    This too I just adore. Personally I love the claws and think they should be more than just something druids of the claw or talon have or demon hunters. Azshara and Tyrande both have black sharp finger nails on their hands on the new model. I want that too on the new female player model.



    This DK art is one of my favorite most extreme examples, and reminds me more of how the Druids of the Claw looked in Warcraft 3. I would die for an option like that in game too.


    And I love Tjacobs, from the Sons of the Storm, this image of Malfurion with his giant hands. This probably is like a knife in the eye to some of you.


    Now if we could just get some geoset models for hakama pants in game like Illidan and Malfurion wear.
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  2. #1222
    its not the looks that i dislike about most night elves, its mostly the lore that turns me off from them.

    i get a very hypocritical douchey vibe from alot of the decisions night elf leaders have made throughout the story
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  3. #1223
    I always felt the nightelf model was a little disappointing. They don't have proper beards, which of course is super common in WoW; this is a big problem. They also don't really move like I'd expect from a hunter race.

    They seem to have a little bit of the... <is there a word for the top down rotational change shown in contrapposto when a person is shifting their weight?> but it doesn't extend through their hands and feet which makes them look suddenly stiff past the elbow rather than fluid.

    They also have the most awkward of the permanent expressions in WoW models. You can have angry or blank or grumpy... but since it's always there it looks stupid, the girls have 8 varieties of blank which is also not cool.

    They end up looking less like strong powerful ancient man monsters and more like dollies.
    blah, new sig... something something

  4. #1224
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    its not the looks that i dislike about most night elves, its mostly the lore that turns me off from them.

    i get a very hypocritical douchey vibe from alot of the decisions night elf leaders have made throughout the story
    I find people like you funny and not in a covert aggressive or passive aggressive jibe, in that (if you're similar to what I commonly encounter in NELF haters you may be different) you're mostly talking about events mostly going back ten thousand years. Compare that to human history and judge the actions of humanity for something so long ago. Of course you could be talking about something totally different.

    Malfurion is basically the model of altruism in this lore, and Metzen once said he is really the one true altruistic character in all of the lore, Azeroth's equivalent to Superman. He is selfless and wants nothing more than to see the good of life preserved. Rare in a game which likes to make everything grey and good or bad based on your point of view. But this being WOW they make that interesting and show no matter what your intentions are, someone will be pissed off or offended or suffer from your actions.

    But the Children of the Stars were supposed to also be very xenophobic and isolationist and arrogant. Not paying attention to the world while their males were in the Emerald Dream being zen serene gardeners while their feral warrior women were killing anything that entered their sacred woods. I like to think of them as being a lot like the more hostile tribes encountered in North America when Europeans first started arriving here, those who had very deep connections and spirituality with the land but would kill outsiders on sight, even other tribes. Magua is someone I like to think of when thinking of the Sentinels and Tyrande. One of my favorite film villains, I love Wes Studi, my fellow Oklahoman.


    I think a lot of that is intended though, but there's also clearly an intentional narrative going on I find some players completely disregard in favor of how they interpret the choices and actions of the stories characters in a really annoying and self aggrandizing way. But in a way Blizzard does this on purpose to get you fired up.

    But the Night Elves have been hypocritical and douchey and they've paid huge prices for it. But you can find just about every race in this game has the same running theme in one level of severity or another. Often getting burned for trying to touch the sun, or opening Pandora's box from noble or sinister intentions and ending up like Prometheus with his innards being eaten daily.

    I think an annoying thing is people not separating the Furion's Kal'dorei from Azshara's. But half the fun in the lore is the flaws and mistakes the characters make I think. Along with being basically Marvel and DC superhero mythology mixed with ancient human mythology and folklore in a really weird Saturday morning cartoon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    I always felt the nightelf model was a little disappointing. They don't have proper beards, which of course is super common in WoW; this is a big problem. They also don't really move like I'd expect from a hunter race.

    They seem to have a little bit of the... <is there a word for the top down rotational change shown in contrapposto when a person is shifting their weight?> but it doesn't extend through their hands and feet which makes them look suddenly stiff past the elbow rather than fluid.

    They also have the most awkward of the permanent expressions in WoW models. You can have angry or blank or grumpy... but since it's always there it looks stupid, the girls have 8 varieties of blank which is also not cool.

    They end up looking less like strong powerful ancient man monsters and more like dollies.
    I agree on the beards. Night elves should have beards as epic as dwarves.
    Malfurion, give me your beard.
    You too, druid.

    Look at the way they've made beards flex and move here with the new tech, it's so cooooool.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCQZM3_Fh0E#t=601
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  5. #1225
    my main dislike mostly stems from the harsh rules and regulations they placed on the highbourne rebels who fought alongside them and the way they treated illidan.

    also the way they treated things like the druid of the pack and other night elves who tried to be different from the strict tradition.

    night elves come off as very "its my way or its no way and if you dont like it to bad because i know better" until something comes along and ends up smacking them in the face and they are forced to adapt or live with it.

    it could just be that blizzard chooses to focus on that main archtype of character when it comes to night elves and that if given more variety in their characters i would like them more.

    things like demon hunters, jarod shadowsong, alpha prime. characters like that i like but dont seem to get much spotlight among the night elves

    dath'remar sunstrider as well if you count him.
    Last edited by Immitis; 2014-02-11 at 07:05 AM.
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  6. #1226
    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    This too I just adore. Personally I love the claws and think they should be more than just something druids of the claw or talon have or demon hunters. Azshara and Tyrande both have black sharp finger nails on their hands on the new model. I want that too on the new female player model.
    No they don't have that, she wears some kind of fingernail rings. Long-sharp fingernails on female nightelfs only exist in early wc3 concept art.


    The size of the hand was sized down on most updated models? At least for the females, I think but could e wrong on this, maybe they look smaller because they are less blocky.
    Last edited by Hellspawn; 2014-02-11 at 10:17 AM.

  7. #1227
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    my main dislike mostly stems from the harsh rules and regulations they placed on the highbourne rebels who fought alongside them and the way they treated illidan.

    also the way they treated things like the druid of the pack and other night elves who tried to be different from the strict tradition.

    night elves come off as very "its my way or its no way and if you dont like it to bad because i know better" until something comes along and ends up smacking them in the face and they are forced to adapt or live with it.

    it could just be that blizzard chooses to focus on that main archtype of character when it comes to night elves and that if given more variety in their characters i would like them more.

    things like demon hunters, jarod shadowsong, alpha prime. characters like that i like but dont seem to get much spotlight among the night elves

    dath'remar sunstrider as well if you count him.
    Well they have good reason to don't they?. It was arcane magic that brought the Burning Legion here and literally blew up the surface of their planet. Furion banned it so they didn't draw their attention because they were terrified of Sargeras and he had made a bargain with the Dragon Aspects to use druidic magic as a substitute, but the highborne and Dath'remar were addicted to the arcane and could not help themselves out of selfishness. That's the intended narrative.

    If the entire planet was just destroyed by nuclear weapons and nuclear reactors going melt down(someday thorium will change that danger), and 90% of the life on your planet was destroyed and the world ripped in two, and all you knew was part of your continent was left there and most of your society and technology and knowledge was lost forever, all because of this nuclear energy that specially used and regulated by a small privileged class who lived in a class above the majority of society which makes that elite 1% not only receive better treatment but they ruined your entire way of life and killed most of your relatives, but you still allow them to live among you,... and then an alien race comes along and showed you a way to use nothing but wind and solar power to run your infrastructure, but then the leftover elite group of people who created that nuclear energy were still messing around with it after it was made illegal just because they didn't like the alternative, you don't think it makes sense to do something?

    Furion made the law punishable by death. But out of his sympathy and inability to carry out his own consequences, he banished them instead to go and make a life however they wanted to live somewhere else. Should he have been required to take care of the kings and queens and princes and rich people who just ruined his entire life and his planet?

    And of course Night Elves would be suspicious of demon hunters. They are terrified of arcane magic, these guys are basically in the nuclear power methaphor covering themselves in radiation just so they can protect everyone else from the radiation, but to people who just had their planet destroyed they are paranoid of anyome playing with radiation and can't afford to sit down and talk it over with them.

    You are making a common indulgence in your standards here by judging characters based on meta knowledge, it's unfair. You know things the characters don't and you don't have the traumatic experiences they did to make you afraid of the things they fear. And just look what Alpha Prime did? He ended up becoming a pyscho who would kill anyone that got in his way.

    Furion doesn't have the luxury of just seeing what might happen in a world with dangers this severe are possible, and really, how boring would the lore be if characters all knew exactly the most efficient way to do everything and just were super dooper awesome and everyone lived happily ever after until the bad guys come. The conflict between everyone makes the story compelling, you're not supposed to find a character interesting based on if you'd want to be their friend or not, not if you want a modicum of sophistication in your storytelling or realism in your characterization. And this is still boiling down sophisticated literature into something on par with a cool Saturday morning cartoon for adults and children both to enjoy.

    As I recall, Shadowsong was an example of someone dealing with the old and rigid rules of Azshara's class based society. You seem to be struggling with context all over the place her, and you seem to be ignoring equivalent examples found in just about every race somewhere, somewhen in the timeline.

    I guess it's working as intended.

    If you'd like you can name a race and we can play this game until the sun comes home. Then it usually devolved into who did what worse than the other more times. I suppose if you only are interested in characters you want to be friends with, that's your God given right by the United States of Earth (coming summer 2075), personally I'll be enjoying exploring people with motivations and value systems that have nothing to do with my own, I value seeing the world and fictional worlds through as many points of view as possible, because I like to understand why people do the things they do, even if I don't like it.

    But you're right, Night Elves are very stubborn as a general rule and are very conservative and can be mean. If I wanted everyone to be nice and be someone I liked as a friend and impressed me, I guess I wouldn't like them either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    No they don't have that, she wears some kind of fingernail rings. Long-sharp fingernails on female nightelfs only exist in early wc3 concept art.


    The size of the hand was sized down on most updated models? At least for the females, I think but could e wrong on this, maybe they look smaller because they are less blocky.
    No, their hands are still quite big, just look at them. And the claws being jewelry or not,... So what?

    So give them the ornamental claws they wear as racial jewelry like Blood Elves get ear rings. But then, look at Azshara and tell me those are just ornaments.
    Look at her nails. They are black.


    But yes, they also wear sharp ornamental claws as racial clothing. So what. Give them both. You don't like the claws? I guess that sucks. They are all part of the nocturnal animals they revere and live with in symbiosis. They worship the Ancients as much as the Aspects and the Titans.


    The night elves have elements of owls in their design and panthers, hence the eyebrows as owls and fangs and claw like aesthetic, if you want to call it jewlery or not, that's what it's evocative of, NOCTURNAL animals. They are avian, raven owl panter elves that remind me of the wolf blooded Wolf Riders of Wendy Pini's Elfquest. A story about a strange benign alien transdimensional shape shifting species similar to the Naaru who gave up a life of traveling across dimensions in crystal dimension phasing ships, mastering magic and shape shifting into a million different life forms as their one main interest in existence and living out a million different lives in as many worlds as they could find before a terrible accident caused them to crash on a planet in the wrong time in it's history and they had to assume the frail bodies of the elves of the mythology of the future people of that world, but they could not survive in those bodies exposed to weather and needing food, so one of them began shapeshifting into a wolf and learned to hunt and provide for the others, but she lost her mind to the wold mind and ended up taking over the local wolf packs as an alpha wolf. She ended up giving birth to a wolf elf hybrid, and after ten generations or so of diluted wolf blood you had elves who were short and stout and muscular instead of tall and elegant and frail with feral beards and fangs who lived in trees they could shape by singing wood into magical forms and hollows for dens while they formed psychic bonds with wolves and rode them for life. Sound kind of familiar?

    Night Elves have avian and feral features both for artistic choices and for lore reasons, they had a life of opulence and a kingdom of vast riches and wealth founded on arcane sorcery the same way we are founded on electricity and fossil fuels and gave it all up to live in leather skins and in trees decked out in feathers and fur.

    The same way if we found out our electricity and fossil fuels drew the attention of demonic man eating aliens from John Carmack's DOOM and QUAKE who we barely defeated after blowing up all of Africa, Europe and Asia and shattering North America in two.

    Then we all live in teepees like Native Americans, Sami, and Siberians along with awesome tree houses and we wear furs and leathers and go back to shamanism and druidism. Neato.

    Except for in Australia, they're fucking insane those Assies,...mohawks, motorcycles, spiked football shoulder pads, Tina Turner,.. yikes.

    The Druids of the Talon even get this far in their manifestation.
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  8. #1228
    Maybe they could make gloves that just add some jewelry... but an extra customization option would be cool even through I think it will probably not happen. Didn't want to deny that claw is a thing for nightelves, because it is obviously a thing for them.

    But at least I hope we will finally see skirts/robes like the one Azshara is wearing there...

  9. #1229
    I want lots of moons and stars on armor and weapons and owls and panthers. Why am I the only night elf walking around with an owl all the time?
    Get with the program me buckos.
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  10. #1230
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Part of why the arcane is so distrusted and misunderstood in the setting are the druids themselves, many of whom being former arcanists themselves. They are by and large the source for lore on the arcane. Like Yig mentioned, this is understandable given the knowledge they had at the time. The Titans left a massive repository of Nether energies on Azeroth and, shockingly, this was abused by a (at the time) young race, who knew little of what the arcane had the potential to attract, which again was an army led by an insane Titan. I suspect Xavius knew as he came into greater contact with the Legion's scions than anyone else, and sugar-coated it for the other Highborne. This makes him one of the setting's greatest villains, IMO, a bit like Gul'dan.

    I can understand the Highborne, too, who had little awareness of what Xavius and his lot were up to, and yet wanted to continue using a powerful substance that isn't inherently wicked. After all, the Legion would've struggled to enter Azeroth were it not for Xavius's solicitations. The quel'dorei sought to establish a kingdom were they could go about using the arcane unhindered, hidden away from the Legion.

    The irony is that the Kaldorei exhibit hubris in their own ways, e.g. their desire to retain their immortality and revitalise the World Tree. This is not really different on a fundamental level from the desperate inhabitants of Eldre'thalas draining energies from a demon to keep alive. The sin'dorei were also struck with a dose of irony when they had to use fel to survive.

    In time, the Kaldorei may come to accept that the arcane and the ley energies that comprise it are part of Azeroth, now, and helps shape the world itself. I am sure with the return of the Shen'dralar and their cohabitation with the quel'dorei, they will start reviewing their core beliefs. Even fel doesn't necessarily bring one under the Legion's fold, as the likes of the sin'dorei and Illidan have proven, although it does have corruptive qualities that are perceived to be undesirable, e.g. strengthening emotions like aggression. Self-control and discipline is what seems to be necessary to wield either form of power without being 'corrupted'.
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  11. #1231
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Part of why the arcane is so distrusted and misunderstood in the setting are the druids themselves, many of whom being former arcanists themselves. They are by and large the source for lore on the arcane. Like Yig mentioned, this is understandable given the knowledge they had at the time. The Titans left a massive repository of Nether energies on Azeroth and, shockingly, this was abused by a (at the time) young race, who knew little of what the arcane had the potential to attract, which again was an army led by an insane Titan. I suspect Xavius knew as he came into greater contact with the Legion's scions than anyone else, and sugar-coated it for the other Highborne. This makes him one of the setting's greatest villains, IMO, a bit like Gul'dan.

    I can understand the Highborne, too, who had little awareness of what Xavius and his lot were up to, and yet wanted to continue using a powerful substance that isn't inherently wicked. After all, the Legion would've struggled to enter Azeroth were it not for Xavius's solicitations. The quel'dorei sought to establish a kingdom were they could go about using the arcane unhindered, hidden away from the Legion.

    The irony is that the Kaldorei exhibit hubris in their own ways, e.g. their desire to retain their immortality and revitalise the World Tree. This is not really different on a fundamental level from the desperate inhabitants of Eldre'thalas draining energies from a demon to keep alive. The sin'dorei were also struck with a dose of irony when they had to use fel to survive.

    In time, the Kaldorei may come to accept that the arcane and the ley energies that comprise it are part of Azeroth, now, and helps shape the world itself. I am sure with the return of the Shen'dralar and their cohabitation with the quel'dorei, they will start reviewing their core beliefs. Even fel doesn't necessarily bring one under the Legion's fold, as the likes of the sin'dorei and Illidan have proven, although it does have corruptive qualities that are perceived to be undesirable, e.g. strengthening emotions like aggression. Self-control and discipline is what seems to be necessary to wield either form of power without being 'corrupted'.
    Even so Fel energy is still mostly frowned upon. It doesn't mean however individuals won't do it( I.E Locks Demon Hunters).
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  12. #1232
    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    I want lots of moons and stars on armor and weapons and owls and panthers. Why am I the only night elf walking around with an owl all the time?
    Get with the program me buckos.
    Not all night elf is that into nature though. Yes, they do live in the wild but they are not all druid-like.

  13. #1233
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    They're about as close as you can get to being civilised whilst remaining within the natural world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Even so Fel energy is still mostly frowned upon. It doesn't mean however individuals won't do it( I.E Locks Demon Hunters).
    Yeah, that's more or less what i was getting at.


    Back on topic, I like 4 of the current NE male faces and like 1 or 2 of the female ones. Like Yig, I think the NE are good for the most part, but they can do with tweaks and better animations in some cases.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  14. #1234
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Part of why the arcane is so distrusted and misunderstood in the setting are the druids themselves, many of whom being former arcanists themselves. They are by and large the source for lore on the arcane. Like Yig mentioned, this is understandable given the knowledge they had at the time. The Titans left a massive repository of Nether energies on Azeroth and, shockingly, this was abused by a (at the time) young race, who knew little of what the arcane had the potential to attract, which again was an army led by an insane Titan. I suspect Xavius knew as he came into greater contact with the Legion's scions than anyone else, and sugar-coated it for the other Highborne. This makes him one of the setting's greatest villains, IMO, a bit like Gul'dan.

    I can understand the Highborne, too, who had little awareness of what Xavius and his lot were up to, and yet wanted to continue using a powerful substance that isn't inherently wicked. After all, the Legion would've struggled to enter Azeroth were it not for Xavius's solicitations. The quel'dorei sought to establish a kingdom were they could go about using the arcane unhindered, hidden away from the Legion.

    The irony is that the Kaldorei exhibit hubris in their own ways, e.g. their desire to retain their immortality and revitalise the World Tree. This is not really different on a fundamental level from the desperate inhabitants of Eldre'thalas draining energies from a demon to keep alive. The sin'dorei were also struck with a dose of irony when they had to use fel to survive.

    In time, the Kaldorei may come to accept that the arcane and the ley energies that comprise it are part of Azeroth, now, and helps shape the world itself. I am sure with the return of the Shen'dralar and their cohabitation with the quel'dorei, they will start reviewing their core beliefs. Even fel doesn't necessarily bring one under the Legion's fold, as the likes of the sin'dorei and Illidan have proven, although it does have corruptive qualities that are perceived to be undesirable, e.g. strengthening emotions like aggression. Self-control and discipline is what seems to be necessary to wield either form of power without being 'corrupted'.
    If arcane energy is inherently corupted in its nature is debatable. Archimonde stated while destroying Dalaran that kirin tor mages were arrogant in using legion's magic(arcane). Arcane is the only magic that will corrupt your soul if using without control. Demons also feed on arcane.

    Druidism or Shamanism won't do anything to you physically. They are just there for people to use. It could not turn people into nature addict or something like that.

  15. #1235
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    He said for using 'their' fire, which implies nothing more than that the Eredar consider all such energies and magics to be uniquely theirs. The real risk of using the arcane is to begin using fel (as it builds an appetite for it due to the rush arcane energies giving being subject to diminishing returns; fel is more potent and capable of giving this rush), and then to begin turning to the Legion. It might induce hubris, as any form of power can, however there's enough corrupted druids, paladins, shaman etc. to suggest many other forms of power corrupt too, not least because they tend to involve entreating or worshipping entities with ulterior motives, such as elementals. I think the Scarlet Crusade is a paradigm case of how even Light users can fall prone to massive corruption and conceit.

    The arcane does alter everything it interacts with but I consider that to be an evolutionary agency more than anything else.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2014-02-11 at 06:14 PM.
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  16. #1236
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    He said for using 'their' fire, which implies nothing more than that the Eredar consider all such energies and magics to be uniquely theirs. The real risk of using the arcane is to begin using fel (as it builds an appetite for it due to the rush arcane energies giving being subject to diminishing returns; fel is more potent and capable of giving this rush), and then to begin turning to the Legion. It might induce hubris, as any form of power can, however there's enough corrupted druids, paladins, shaman etc. to suggest many other forms of power corrupt too, not least because they tend to involve entreating or worshipping entities with ulterior motives, such as elementals. I think the Scarlet Crusade is a paradigm case of how even Light users can fall prone to massive corruption and conceit.

    The arcane does alter everything it interacts with but I consider that to be an evolutionary agency more than anything else.
    Those corrupted druids and shamans were not corrupted by druidism or shamanism. A lot of people were corrupted by arcane. The Scarlet Crusade was not corrupted by the light. They were not even corrupted. They just had twisted moral code.

    The reason why arcane must be controlled in the first place is because it could corrupt you if use carelessly. Using druidism carelessly won't make you turn green eyed and addicted to it by any mean. It will just cause havoc.

    In RPG book, there are 4 laws about arcane magic. It's not canon but it gives some perspective on the nature of arcane.

    1.Magic is powerful
    2.Magic is corrupting: Magic corrupts the soul; if the humblest person in Azeroth became a practitioner of the arcane, by the time the practitioner reached the higher levels in their art, all traces of her humble roots would be lost. Magic breeds pride and arrogance. Magic corrupts the body; it ages the caster before their time and hastens the blight that the world inflicts on things fair and beautiful. Those who claim that only Necromancy and Fel Magic have a corrupting influence are fooling themselves.
    3.Magic is an addiction
    4.Magic attracts the Twisting Nether Like Flies to Honey.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2014-02-11 at 06:32 PM.

  17. #1237
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Who says they weren't corrupted by shamanism, which requires binding and controlling elementals? Moreover, who says the Scarlets weren't corrupted by the sense of conviction one must possess when one wields the Light? As I said, there's nothing inherently corruptive to the arcane, not unless you use fel, and even then, not unless you abuse it. True, druidic and shamanic energies aren't addictive (that I know of) but all this goes to show is that the arcane alters the species that uses it and renders them dependent on it, which is the price of the power that comes with it.

    The issue with the term 'corruption' is that it implies a moral evaluation of the evolutionary direction of the substance used. Arguably, it is acceptable in the case of fel, but by and large this is defined by druidic prejudices in Azeroth. Also, whilst the WPRG has some interesting tidbits, that is a classic case of something that seems to have been written from a particular NPC's point of view.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2014-02-11 at 06:39 PM.
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  18. #1238
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Who says they weren't corrupted by shamanism, which requires binding and controlling elementals? Moreover, who says the Scarlets weren't corrupted by the sense of conviction one must possess when one wields the Light? As I said, there's nothing inherently corruptive to the arcane, not unless you use fel, and even then, not unless you abuse it. True, druidic and shamanic energies aren't addictive (that I know of) but all this goes to show is that the arcane alters the species that uses it and renders them dependent on it, which is the price of the power that comes with it.
    What do you mean is that people who use shamanism and the light are bad in the first place.. The light won't corrupt them physically by any mean. The sense of power could corrupt anyone mentally but that's not exclusive to the light,druidism,shamanism. It's just a common thing that happens. The light is just there to wield if you have enough faith and you can use it to do whatever you want. Fandral Staghelm for example, he was not corrupted by Druidism. He was corrupted by the old god and his own mind then he used druidism in his own way to wreck havoc.

    Arcane does corrupt you physically and will make you addicted to it. Not sure what you are trying to argue. You can't say it's not corruptive when it's the fact that it can twist you physically.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2014-02-11 at 06:44 PM.

  19. #1239
    Pit Lord Zathrendar's Avatar
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    No, it changes you physically. To say it 'corrupts' is to make an evaluation of whether the change is good or bad. It isn't either of necessity.

    As for shamanism, again no, I am implying that it involves dealing with beings that are not necessarily well intentioned. Two of the elemental lords were in league with the Old Gods, after all. The magic itself may not be corruptive but it opens the doorways for such beings to exert a corruptive influence, I would think. Re the Scarlets, it is the state of mind of absolute conviction I am referring to, as I don't believe the Scarlets started out bad. Again, all I am saying is that all forms of power are capable of breeding hubris, and by and large the stuff that is written about the arcane is from particular NPC perspectives - the only thing we know for sure it does stimulate is an appetite for fel, if you use fel. In turn, fel is dangerous if used in an undisciplined way, but it's a different concern.

    If the argument were that the arcane gives such a rush of power, that it is disproportionately more dangerous than other forms of power, I could buy that, but again its main risks have always been presented in attracting the Legion's power and/or lapsing over to the Legion or necromancy, which a minority of mages fall prone to.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  20. #1240
    my main problem with that reasoning is that the highbourne rebels fought alongside them.

    had the druids fought then locked up the highbourne rebels and said okay we wont kill you but you cant use magic, then i would agree.

    but dath'remar and his rebels were integral to winning the war of the ancients, he saved tyrandes life, they risked their own lives by turning away from azshara, they fought side by side with the druids and used the same magic they vilified in order to help them win, without them they wouldve lost or atleast had been severely gimped in the war.

    then to go back and say "hey i know you guys fought side by side with us and that your magic helped us win but stop using it or ill kill you"

    that just rubs me the wrong way, they fought just as hard as the druids did, they didnt plan on abusing magic they just wanted to continue using the same power that had come to be essential in their lives.

    in my opinion they deserved that.

    demon hunters i understand a bit more but even so when times are tough what does tyrande do? she breaks illidan right out and brings him back into the fold as soon as times get tough. that to me gives the vibe that "hey this is bad, until we need what you do, then its not bad, until we say its bad again"

    alpha prime i agree, he did go insane but part of the reason he ended up going to far is because of the way malfurion treated experimentation among druidism.

    the main way i view night elf culture is one of stagnation due to harsh tradition.

    its not that they arent nice to people, or that they arent accepting. its that they seem so easy to go back on their morals the minute times get a bit to tough.

    and its not that they are the only race that ever acts that way but i find that blizzard tends to focus mainly on characters that do act that way when it comes to the night elves.

    id like to see more night elves willing to break tradition, more variety among their character archtypes
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