1. #1941
    The Lightbringer shoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I'm curious, would you guys be ok if subraces or some additional race options were available in the e-shop?
    Full races, no, but sub-race skins fall under the category of purely cosmetic customization options that don't affect gameplay so I wouldn't have a big issue with it. It wouldn't be any different than buying a skin on League for example.
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  2. #1942
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    I don't think 'small in number' ever stopped Blizzard from making a race playable or not. The Horde Goblins technically all were slaves on the same boat. Sylvanas accepting the San'layn into her Forsaken would make for some really interesting Undead v. Blood Elf relations, there would be no way Lorthemar would be cool with it and it would be awesome to watch.
    I usually would say the same, but they were created especially by the Lich King, they have nosferatu like features, and were only a small group who followed Kael'thas here. I imagine any would be dead now or under Bolvar's rule. Would be interesting to explore, they are not just undead elves, they have some unique physiology.
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  3. #1943
    Anyhow. Let's get down to business to explore possible subraces and their feasibility. Let's start with the Horde.

    Orcs:
    Most Orc options can be reasonably handled with reskins. Small model edits could be worked in if you really wanted to go that far.

    Uncorrupted: Mag'har have already joined the Horde on Azeroth. WoD will add even more Brown Orc allies in the Frostwolf and whoever else ends up joining. All that needs to be done is the addition of Orc skins in various shades of brown.

    Ash Coloured: This includes Blackrock, Dragonmaw, and WoD Shattered Hand all in one. Orcs of this sort have already joined the Horde, and representing them would be as easy as adding various shades of grey to the player skin choices.

    Fel Orcs: A good deal of the Fel Orcs on Outland were kidnapped Mag'har who were forcibly injected with demon blood, and many were certainly in a near constant blood rage. Good news is that we've established that killing the source of the blood frees the Orc from the Bloodrage! However, this doesn't change the Orcs color back to what it was before, as seen with Orcs still being green. We already have examples of Red Orcs serving the Horde by the Dark Portal. In short, the lore could easily support former Fel Orcs joining the Horde after being freed from their own Blood Curse.

    As for implementing it, there are two ways it could go and it would be nice if both options were available.

    One is the simplest route, and simply adding various shades of red to the skin selection. Works well enough for this purpose, and the lack of other features could be explained in various ways. Perhaps these ones were the less mutated Fel orcs, or some of the mutations faded to leave only the red skin.

    However, if you really needed to have more than just the skin, that wouldn't necessarily be too hard. Fel Orcs aren't shaped too differently from regular Orcs. Mostly they just have serious dental conditions and a bunch of spikes sticking out in odd places. That's really nothing too hard to just glue on the same way they do hairstyles and armor. Just put the spikes and weird tusks on the Orc model, and set it only to show when the option is enabled. The Fel Orc shape really doesn't differ all too much from the standard other than that.

    (EDIT)Mok'Nathal: Bigger Orcs with Ogre skintones. If you're okay with huge Orcs, then okay. I'm averse to large size differences for some reason. But really, it would be easy enough to do.

    (EDIT)Half-Orcs: Might require remodeling to add Draenish features, and reskinning to add mixed skintones.

    Anyhow, I think that about covers Orcs. There's no other subrace that I'm aware of, and all of the Orcish ones are relatively simple and can easily make sense within the lore. Let's move onto a much more challenging race...

    Trolls:
    Let's start by saying that Trolls have too much variety. There. It has been said! Now, let's start from the simplest!

    Please note, the common lore concept here for how these subraces could be included would likely be Vol'jin doing some recruiting. He hasn't done this yet, so lore would probably have to be developed for that.

    Sand Trolls: Sand Trolls have the same build as the playable Jungle Trolls. Implementing them is as easy as adding a variety of sandy skin tones to the available selection. This isn't hard.

    Forest Trolls: Unless you want to be lazy and just add some green mossy skins, this is going to be much harder. Forest Trolls have been shown to have a completely different bodybuild, and would basically require a complete remodel to capture properly. However, Forest Trolls are already on the Horde in the form of the Revantusk Tribe.

    Ice Trolls: Colours aren't very different from Jungle Trolls, which means that there's no easy way out. Also, their facial structure is noticeably different from that of Forest Trolls. However, that would just be a small detail in the end. If the work was done on Forest Trolls, then it wouldn't be too hard to adapt that body work for Frost Trolls. Only question here is how the females would differ...

    Dire Trolls: No. At that point, not even the basic animations would be able to carry over. Also, they wouldn't fit through doors, or be able to ride mounts. Would be fun, but entirely impractical. Like using Vrykul as a subrace of Humans.

    Dark Trolls: We have no idea what these are supposed to look like, except for a piece of concept art. Since they were never actually implemented, any design could be used. However, it's pretty much fruitless to examine this option.

    Zandalar Trolls: Final option. Could be cool, but it would need different animations at the very least. Probably a different model too. All designed with player customization in mind. Would be lots of effort.

    As you can see, there's just too much physical variation in Trolls and it doesn't leave many easy options to work with. Sand Trolls are the simplest choice. Anyhow, significant amounts of lore would have to be created and set to explain practically every single one of these options. But hey! At least there's options! Way too many fucking options.

    Tauren:
    Ah. Here we have something with a little less overwhelming options.

    Grimtotem: Yeah, these are just blackfurred skins with warpaint. This could easily be covered by adding warpaint options. May as well add that to several different races while you're at it. Should cover everyone who wants to be Wildhammer, Dragonmaw, or whatever the fuck else that distinguishes itself through skin-markings.

    Taunka: The Taunka have already joined the Horde,and the Taunka model only differs from Tauren in the head department. However, this difference is significant enough that some effort would have to be put into making that new head. Other than that, Taunka would require skins with heavier looking coats. This isn't as easy as any of the options the Orcs had.

    Yaungol: Have not joined Horde. Have much thicker fur, which is part of the model. Face is closer to the Tauren norm than the Taunka are, but it's still sufficiently different to be an issue. Unless blizzard already plans to add different facial shapes... Then this whole subrace thing gets easier. Other than that, their horns have a distinct look. They also have unique hair and beard styles.

    Overall, most of these options couldn't be handled with simple reskins, and that's just unfortunate.

    Goblin:
    Even less options than Tauren, and all the options suck!

    Hobgoblin: Yeah. No. Not going to work as a Goblin subrace. They're just completely different in practically every way.

    Gilgoblin: Would only take some minor remodeling, but it's just not worth it here. Also, there's some intelligence differences and such at work. I suppose if you really wanted to bother, you could find a way to fit these in. Not going to waste time with these. I suppose it could be fitted with an Azshara expansion.

    Blood Elves:
    Not too many options here, so let's do this!

    Late Joiner: Exactly how it sounds. This would be a "political" Blood Elf who only signed back up with Silvermoon after most of the Fel magic shit happened. As such they would have avoided most of the consequences and retained their blue eyes. Very easy recolour options here.

    Rehabilitated Wretch: Funny thing is, most Wretched had blue eyes, which is odd if green eyes really are a sign of feeding off too much Fel...

    Anyhow, this idea would be more Wretched who have been rehabilitated after the recreation of the Sunwell. However, they would still retain their sickly pale skin tones, tainted eye colors, and various scars from when they were Wretched and took their Arcane or Fel addictions too far. It isn't too hard to imagine some Blood Elves reaching out to help them.

    Repentant Felblood:There are venerated heroes amongst the Horde who willingly partook of Demon Blood and betrayed their own people at some point in time. The Orcs as a whole are a Fel corrupted race who spent quite a bit of time murdering innocents for various reasons, all because the leaders they trusted directed them to do so. If some Felblood sought redemption in some way, it would be almost hypocritical not to let them. Especially with how the Scryers and Sunfury were forgiven after serving Kael'thas. Of course, I would have expected them to have degenerated into Wretched after losing their Fel supply. Like how they all go wretched after being drained of their Fel magic.

    However, I digress. This would probably work as a sort of variant of the Rehabilitated Wretch. Just one that retains features from being even farther gone before their recovery. On the easy matters, it would just require some added skin colors like red, blue, and dark greys. Oh, and some hair colours too. Skin markings could be covered by that idea I had that such things could be added to all races.

    When it comes to model details, the Felbloods are fortunately not too different from normal Blood Elves. They just have a few details tacked on, and tacked on details are relatively easy. Fangs wouldn't be too hard to add, and neither would a few horn variants. The "wings" might be a bit harder, but not exceptionally so. And of course, any of these traits could be toned down for Lore reasons related to no longer intaking massive amounts Fel energies.

    Nothing much to say after that. If it were me, I might just give the "Rehabilitated Wretch" idea options to have a few Felblood traits, since they fit together well enough thematically speaking and are both related to excessive indulgence of their addiction. Also, Felbloods become Wretched when they stop feeding, so any potential surviving Felblood are probably amongst the Wretched by now anyways.

    Forsaken: Now, I almost forgot this one! Not really too much to say here. I could say I would like darker, more mummified looking, skintones to be added, but that's not necessarily a subrace. So back to subraces!

    Undead Elves: These would be Forsaken with Elven features. Would mostly require minor model editing.

    Preserved Undead Elf: This one would probably use the standard Blood Elf models as a base, but have undead looking textures. I guess. Don't know how this would be much different from Death Knights... But yeah, would be your basic Dark Ranger/Darkfallen physical types. It could be easily implemented if you really wanted to.

    Not much to add other than other undead races. But Elves are the most common ones other than Humans, so I'll leave it at that. Unless you want to play an Abomination or something. I guess Skeletons could work too. Ah well. To get those done with, I think Abominations would basically be creating a whole new race. Skeletons might work a bit better, but would lack variety in appearance.


    Anyhow. That's my list for the Horde. I wasted too much time on this, but I think I covered all of the options and how they could make sense, as well as how hard each one could be to work with. Will get to work on my thoughts upon Alliance races afterward.

    I really wish I had a good spoiler box option on these forums. One that would make it easier to partition this post. However, as you can see, Orcs have it easiest. Good for them.
    Last edited by KrakHed; 2014-03-13 at 11:57 PM.

  4. #1944
    humans: half elf, high elf

    dwarf: earthen, dark iron, wildhammer

    night elf: dark trolls, high elf. they could maybe turn highbourne into a subrace if it includes special arcane tattoos and such, maybe different hair and skin colours.

    gnomes: leper gnomes (horde side for high elf equivalent) mechagnomes

    draenei: broken

    worgen: alpha worgen model

    pandaren: if they wanted they could have it be furbolg and make it start somewhere else, or just ignore the starting zone lore, furbolg also like pandaren have ties to both horde and alliance so they could still be neutral

    orc: half ogre, brown skin, ash skin, chaos orc (red skin, no spikes, not full fel orc)

    forsaken: undead high elves, leper gnomes

    tauren: grimtotem, taunka

    troll: forest troll (revantusk tribe is allied with the horde)

    blood elf: wretched, felblood, san'layn maybe

    goblin: hobgoblin
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  5. #1945
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Just release more goddamn models already...
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  6. #1946
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    I usually would say the same, but they were created especially by the Lich King, they have nosferatu like features, and were only a small group who followed Kael'thas here. I imagine any would be dead now or under Bolvar's rule. Would be interesting to explore, they are not just undead elves, they have some unique physiology.
    There's a couple of princes missing (3 i think) and they could being creating more Dark Fallen far from Bolvar reach, also remenber that they could easily create more with the Valkyrs and that WILL create some problems between the BE and the Forsaken

  7. #1947
    Slightly off topic, but I was wondering...
    Does Blizz ever hold official polls on what races the fans would like in a future expansion?
    I think it would be cool for the fans to be able to voice their opinions on the matter.

  8. #1948
    FOR THE ALLIANCE!

    Subraces might be a little less numerous here, so let's start!

    Humans:
    Humans don't really have Subraces that we know of, and already have plenty of skincolour variation. But let's give this a go anyhow!

    Vrykul: Vrykul don't count as a Human subrace any more than Ogres are Orcs. Way too large a size difference here. Worse than the Mok'Nathal. Also, they don't like the Alliance. However, it's possible that intermediate options could be found, but that would require some asspulling.

    Azotha: Probably the closest thing to Vrykul that would work. If you feel like it you could even make them somewhat larger than the average human and give them some Vrykul-like features. Only question is where you would find them or how you would get them to sign up. This would take loreworks to implement. Serious loreworks. However, it could very well turn out to be worth it if it's handled right. But still, might be able to work in some of those unusual Vrykul features some have, frosty like blue skin. Warpaint.tattoos would work well here.

    High Elf: High Elves aren't Human, but I suppose if you really wanted to shoehorn them ingame as playable it could work. I mean, the remaining High Elves tend to be the ones who had the closest ties to humanity, and lived nearer to them. The ones that got booted from Silvermoon itself mostly got turned Wretched recently.

    But that would be sort of like giving Leper Gnomes to the Forsaken, seeing as how the Forsaken seem to be the race most willing to take them in and treat them as equals. Not necessarily a good idea, but it could be done.

    However, since we're speaking of how High Elves are mostly those who had the closest relations to Humans...

    Half-Elves: Yeah. A few of these have been produced by some rather famous High Elves. The remaining High Elves almost certainly had a disproportionate number of known couplings with Humans than their relatives among the Blood Elves, and who knows how far back this trend goes. The First Guardian of Tirisfal himself was a Half-Elf, so it's been happening for awhile. Probably long enough for there to be some population of them, and long enough for Kalecgos to notice that they were a thing and consider their form to be inconspicuous enough to hide his draconic nature.

    The Lore wouldn't be too hard to implement, and the model changes wouldn't have to be too severe. Some intermediate pointed ears and other Elven features could work nicely. They already have a Lore figure in existence for them. One who is the descendant of famous heroes, but who has now been utterly forgotten. Ah well.

    Onto a race with more actual subraces!
    Dwarves:
    Dark Iron: Already joined. Add shades of grey, with plenty of dark tones. Some bright red flaming eyes could work too. Would be quite easy to manage.

    Wildhammer Already joined. Add options for warpaint or tattoos. Have already suggested this sort of thing before.

    Frost Dwarf: Already joined under Muradin. Would require the creation of some blue, frosty skins in various shades.

    Earthen: Would likely use some remodeling. Might not be the most fitting, but if you wanted to fit them in a way could be worked out.

    Iron Dwarf: Same as above, except they tend to be hostile. Probably not the best subrace idea, and wouldn't fit in with the other Dwarves very well. Same applies for above.

    Trogg: Mandatory terrible idea. Would not fit in with Dwarvish society, would require remodels. No.

    That was easy. Let's continue with easy analysis.
    Night Elves:

    Highborn: Not much difference here. Maybe a few features remniscient of their High Elf descendants. Nothing some added skin and hair colours couldn't manage.

    Antlered: Some Night Elves are apparently born with antlers now, according to Broll's backstory. Would require modeling some antlers. Maybe add a few more nature mutations than just that.

    Flame-Elves: If any would even want to rejoin, then it would be easy enough to add some reddish tones. Not much to add there.

    Satyr: Probably the worst option to put in, but I suppose redeemed Satyr aren't entirely impossible or unworkable.

    On another note, maybe add some Silver-eyed males or Amber-eyed females while you're at it.

    Gnomes:
    Not many options here either.

    Sand Gnomes: /shrug. Reskins, tattoos. Would need lore.

    Leper Gnomes: I suppose they could give up on curing them or stabilize their condition. It would be kind of gross to have them walking around, but eh.

    Mecha Gnomes: Would require remodels, and they don't seem to have much initiative in the lore. However, I suppose they could be used without the Gnomes being averse to their presence.

    On to the last one!

    Draenei:

    Broken: Would require remodeling the Draenei significantly, but they've been accepted into society.

    Lost Ones: Much less present, and would also require remodeling. Honestly I would prefer to not include them, but give the Broken their feet.

    Nobundo has Lost One type feet in his art, and I like their feet better than the current Broken model's.

    Old Eredar:
    In this context, this would be older Eredar. Like Velen. Don't really know what differences there would be. Maybe they would be more slender? That would still take remodeling.

    Man'ari: Yeah... Would require circumstances for some Man'ari to be redeemed. Would likely require remodeling, especially in the case of the Wrathguard type. Not the best of decisions.

    And...

    That's it. I think I've covered them all.

    EDIT:Worgen:

    Night Elf Worgen: Makes sense lorewise. Wouldn't need too much work at all. Maybe change their Worgen forms a little, but not much would really have to change.
    Last edited by KrakHed; 2014-03-14 at 01:40 AM.

  9. #1949
    Warchief Ron Burgundy's Avatar
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    i really wanna see the male human and male night elf model so badly
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  10. #1950
    i wouldnt put satyr as a sub race. they are visually distinct enough to have their own race and have a unique culture and society different from night elves.

    satyr would make a good race during a south seas expansion. satyr for alliance naga for horde, would both tie in well with azshara
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  11. #1951
    The Lightbringer shoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i wouldnt put satyr as a sub race. they are visually distinct enough to have their own race and have a unique culture and society different from night elves.

    satyr would make a good race during a south seas expansion. satyr for alliance naga for horde, would both tie in well with azshara
    I've actually been writing a playable Legion faction/expansion concept, a 3rd faction of Demons lead by Kil'jaeden hellbent on destroying the Alliance and the Horde. Satyr play a cool role as a playable faction.
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  12. #1952
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i wouldnt put satyr as a sub race. they are visually distinct enough to have their own race and have a unique culture and society different from night elves.

    satyr would make a good race during a south seas expansion. satyr for alliance naga for horde, would both tie in well with azshara
    I put it as a bad idea.

    Honestly, to give the list of what I would actually think were good ideas...

    Horde:

    Orcs: Ashen Greys, uncorrupted Brown, and redeemed Fel Reds. Mok'Nathal if you want to push it.

    Trolls: Sand Trolls, bulkier mossy green Forest Trolls, and bulkier blue Frost Trolls if you've got the Forest Trolls worked out already. Or I suppose you could use the slender version of Forest Trolls that still exist in some places. Zandalari could be stretching it.

    Tauren: Grimtotems and Taunka. Maybe Yaungol if a good reason is made up.

    Forsaken: Undead Elves.

    Goblins: N/A Gilgoblins if you really think they need one. Or Alchemical accidents.

    Blood Elves: Late Joiners and Rehabilitated Wretched should be enough. Rehabilitated Wretched could have options for Felblood flavored attributes, so plenty of weird skincolours there.

    Alliance:

    Humans: Half-Elves. Possible Vrykul-ish Azotha with options for certain archaic Vrykul traits, like blue frosty skin, harsher features or slightly larger size.

    Dwarves: Frostborn, Dark Iron, and Wildhammer.

    Gnomes: Sand Gnomes, and stabilized/cured Lepers who have been mutated somewhat by whatever wacky Gnome science cured them.

    Night Elves: Highborn and Antlered Nature mutants like Broll. Add more options for eye colour.

    Worgen:
    Night Elf Worgen.

    Draenei: Broken. Possible Elder Draenei and Lost Ones.

    And that's what I would go with.

  13. #1953
    id say high elves are a pretty likely subrace for either humans or night elves since when sub races were mentioned last time the first two that came up was brown orcs and high elves
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  14. #1954
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    id say high elves are a pretty likely subrace for either humans or night elves since when sub races were mentioned last time the first two that came up was brown orcs and high elves
    I have a bias against High Elves.

    I loved the Blood Elves in Warcraft 3, and loathe every hint of regression from that point.

    I see High Elves as one symbol of that regression, and hope the Blood Elves can maintain a pragmatic and ruthless attitude throughout their existence.

    Like they should.

    Would much rather have some High Elves rejoin Silvermoon as political Blood Elves, now that there's no arcane feeding to object to and the Sunwell's back.

  15. #1955
    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    I have a bias against High Elves.

    I loved the Blood Elves in Warcraft 3, and loathe every hint of regression from that point.

    I see High Elves as one symbol of that regression, and hope the Blood Elves can maintain a pragmatic and ruthless attitude throughout their existence.

    Like they should.

    Would much rather have some High Elves rejoin Silvermoon as political Blood Elves, now that there's no arcane feeding to object to and the Sunwell's back.
    had they given blood elves to the alliance in the first place like they shouldve this wouldnt even be a problem
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  16. #1956
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    had they given blood elves to the alliance in the first place like they shouldve this wouldnt even be a problem
    With how the Alliance's lore has been handled, the Blood Elves would be 100% back to just being High Elves in less time than it takes to roll one as a a character.

    Being on the Horde is one of the only things standing in the way of them totally regressing back in the lore.

  17. #1957
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    had they given blood elves to the alliance in the first place like they shouldve this wouldnt even be a problem
    Why is people so bothered by having the BE in the horde? if the BE were in the alliance they would be HE not BE, IMO it would have been really weird if the BE from WC3 would have been in the alliance, unless you had given the alliance HE and the horde something else, like Ogres or something

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    FOR THE ALLIANCE!

    Subraces might be a little less numerous here, so let's start!

    Humans:
    Humans don't really have Subraces that we know of, and already have plenty of skincolour variation. But let's give this a go anyhow!

    Vrykul: Vrykul don't count as a Human subrace any more than Ogres are Orcs. Way too large a size difference here. Worse than the Mok'Nathal. Also, they don't like the Alliance. However, it's possible that intermediate options could be found, but that would require some asspulling.
    Vrykul will not ever be a sub-race they could be added as a race in another expansion but not a subraces, also they could join the horde or the alliance, it only depends how Blizzard manipulate the lore


    Azotha: Probably the closest thing to Vrykul that would work. If you feel like it you could even make them somewhat larger than the average human and give them some Vrykul-like features. Only question is where you would find them or how you would get them to sign up. This would take loreworks to implement. Serious loreworks. However, it could very well turn out to be worth it if it's handled right. But still, might be able to work in some of those unusual Vrykul features some have, frosty like blue skin. Warpaint.tattoos would work well here.
    These could work but as you said, the problem would be how to implement them in the alliance

    High Elf: High Elves aren't Human, but I suppose if you really wanted to shoehorn them ingame as playable it could work. I mean, the remaining High Elves tend to be the ones who had the closest ties to humanity, and lived nearer to them. The ones that got booted from Silvermoon itself mostly got turned Wretched recently.

    But that would be sort of like giving Leper Gnomes to the Forsaken, seeing as how the Forsaken seem to be the race most willing to take them in and treat them as equals. Not necessarily a good idea, but it could be done.

    However, since we're speaking of how High Elves are mostly those who had the closest relations to Humans...
    I really don't understand why people want to put the HE with the humans, they are NE subraces, i know that they have more in common with the humans and it would make more sense if they started in the human zone but they could be added as a NE subrace and still start in the human starting area

    Half-Elves: Yeah. A few of these have been produced by some rather famous High Elves. The remaining High Elves almost certainly had a disproportionate number of known couplings with Humans than their relatives among the Blood Elves, and who knows how far back this trend goes. The First Guardian of Tirisfal himself was a Half-Elf, so it's been happening for awhile. Probably long enough for there to be some population of them, and long enough for Kalecgos to notice that they were a thing and consider their form to be inconspicuous enough to hide his draconic nature.

    The Lore wouldn't be too hard to implement, and the model changes wouldn't have to be too severe. Some intermediate pointed ears and other Elven features could work nicely. They already have a Lore figure in existence for them. One who is the descendant of famous heroes, but who has now been utterly forgotten. Ah well.
    I have always seen these as the most effective way to give the alliance the high elves (i know they are not HE but at least is something), and yes they would be easy to implement, just modify a little bit the humans model and TADA HALF-ELF

    Onto a race with more actual subraces!
    Dwarves:
    Dark Iron: Already joined. Add shades of grey, with plenty of dark tones. Some bright red flaming eyes could work too. Would be quite easy to manage.

    Wildhammer Already joined. Add options for warpaint or tattoos. Have already suggested this sort of thing before.
    Totally agree with these 2

    Frost Dwarf: Already joined under Muradin. Would require the creation of some blue, frosty skins in various shades.
    These could be possible, but... can they live away from cold areas?

    Earthen: Would likely use some remodeling. Might not be the most fitting, but if you wanted to fit them in a way could be worked out.
    I doubt it, they have no connection to the alliance (without counting the fact that they are the Dwarf ancestors)...

    Iron Dwarf: Same as above, except they tend to be hostile. Probably not the best subrace idea, and wouldn't fit in with the other Dwarves very well. Same applies for above.
    I agree with you here

    Trogg: Mandatory terrible idea. Would not fit in with Dwarvish society, would require remodels. No.

    That was easy. Let's continue with easy analysis.
    Agree

    Night Elves:

    Highborn: Not much difference here. Maybe a few features remniscient of their High Elf descendants. Nothing some added skin and hair colours couldn't manage.
    These could be a good option, i agree

    Antlered: Some Night Elves are apparently born with antlers now, according to Broll's backstory. Would require modeling some antlers. Maybe add a few more nature mutations than just that.
    These could be a possibility

    Flame-Elves: If any would even want to rejoin, then it would be easy enough to add some reddish tones. Not much to add there.
    Well the "Flame-elves" are druids, i would prefer to add these option like the warlock quest (you do an epic quest to became a druid of the flame)

    Satyr: Probably the worst option to put in, but I suppose redeemed Satyr aren't entirely impossible or unworkable.

    On another note, maybe add some Silver-eyed males or Amber-eyed females while you're at it.
    These would be more a new race because the difference between a Satyr and the NE are way to big

    Gnomes:
    Not many options here either.

    Sand Gnomes: /shrug. Reskins, tattoos. Would need lore.
    Agree

    Leper Gnomes: I suppose they could give up on curing them or stabilize their condition. It would be kind of gross to have them walking around, but eh.
    Is not really hard to implement them lorewise, i mean... all the gnome players came out of a city infected with radiation and you had no protection, is actually weird that you didn't get any type of mutations (they could say that the radiation afected only the body but not the mind because you didn't get exposed that long)

    Mecha Gnomes: Would require remodels, and they don't seem to have much initiative in the lore. However, I suppose they could be used without the Gnomes being averse to their presence.
    In general, i don't think we will get any type of Titan construct (no machines, no guys made of stones, etc...)

    On to the last one!

    Draenei:

    Broken: Would require remodeling the Draenei significantly, but they've been accepted into society.
    These could be a possibility, even more when you realise that Exodar is full of Brokens

    Lost Ones: Much less present, and would also require remodeling. Honestly I would prefer to not include them, but give the Broken their feet.

    Nobundo has Lost One type feet in his art, and I like their feet better than the current Broken model's.
    Actually Nobundo has lost one type feets because at the beggining all the draneais had used Lost ones models in WC3, that's why he model have that... now lorewise the lost ones are... well... mentally lost but is not impossible to get them we have a group in swamp of sorrows that have connections with the alliance.

    Old Eredar: In this context, this would be older Eredar. Like Velen. Don't really know what differences there would be. Maybe they would be more slender? That would still take remodeling.
    I would love these, but i would not add these as a sub-race but as different body types

    Man'ari: Yeah... Would require circumstances for some Man'ari to be redeemed. Would likely require remodeling, especially in the case of the Wrathguard type. Not the best of decisions.
    Ermmm they could find a way to explain how these guys join the draneais but... is unlikely


    EDIT:Worgen:

    Night Elf Worgen: Makes sense lorewise. Wouldn't need too much work at all. Maybe change their Worgen forms a little, but not much would really have to change.
    Agree

  18. #1958
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Why is people so bothered by having the BE in the horde? if the BE were in the alliance they would be HE not BE, IMO it would have been really weird if the BE from WC3 would have been in the alliance, unless you had given the alliance HE and the horde something else, like Ogres or something
    But they were Alliance units in WC3? Even just going back to the buck standard fantasy trope, it is more weird to have the "good" side with what are essentially Drow and the "bad" side with wood elves and it rubs a lot of people's Tolkien/D&D based sensibilities the wrong way.

    I really don't understand why people want to put the HE with the humans, they are NE subraces, i know that they have more in common with the humans and it would make more sense if they started in the human zone but they could be added as a NE subrace and still start in the human starting area
    Well, as you said it makes more sense for them to start in Stormwind. And it also makes more sense to have the human classes so they don't have to put in the work to add Paladin stuff under Night Elves and block out Druid quests, for example.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  19. #1959
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    But they were Alliance units in WC3? Even just going back to the buck standard fantasy trope, it is more weird to have the "good" side with what are essentially Drow and the "bad" side with wood elves and it rubs a lot of people's Tolkien/D&D based sensibilities the wrong way.
    Yes while they were still HE, after they got betrayed they weren't Alliance units, also... the horde are not the bad guys nor the good guys, the same with the alliance...

    Well, as you said it makes more sense for them to start in Stormwind. And it also makes more sense to have the human classes so they don't have to put in the work to add Paladin stuff under Night Elves and block out Druid quests, for example.
    Yeah, but not all the subraces have to had the same options for classes as the normal races, for example, if Blizzard add Broken to the Draneai they can't let them be Paladins but they could let them be Warlocks, also they could just start at the human area even if they are a NE subrace, or there first quest list could be different and in the end of that quest line you end up in the human starting zone

  20. #1960
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Vrykul will not ever be a sub-race they could be added as a race in another expansion but not a subraces, also they could join the horde or the alliance, it only depends how Blizzard manipulate the lore

    These could work but as you said, the problem would be how to implement them in the alliance

    I really don't understand why people want to put the HE with the humans, they are NE subraces, i know that they have more in common with the humans and it would make more sense if they started in the human zone but they could be added as a NE subrace and still start in the human starting area

    I have always seen these as the most effective way to give the alliance the high elves (i know they are not HE but at least is something), and yes they would be easy to implement, just modify a little bit the humans model and TADA HALF-ELF
    It seems we're agreed here. I should note that I was never just looking at the best options, but examining all of them. I could have been more blunt about the ones I thought were terrible, but I think I express sufficient unease with certain options.

    Half-Elf is probably the best option I suggested, with Azotha as an intriguing possibility with the more archaic Vrykul-like features they could bring. Features that may have faded away from the bulk of modern humanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    These could be possible, but... can they live away from cold areas?

    I doubt it, they have no connection to the alliance (without counting the fact that they are the Dwarf ancestors)...
    I don't think there's any lore that says Frostborn can't survive outside of the cold, is there? It's not on their Wowpedia description page, and that seems like it would be important. So, I guess there probably wouldn't be a contradiction here...

    And yeah, I don't like Earthen as a possibility either. Had to address all possibilities, even the ones I thought were silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Is not really hard to implement them lorewise, i mean... all the gnome players came out of a city infected with radiation and you had no protection, is actually weird that you didn't get any type of mutations (they could say that the radiation afected only the body but not the mind because you didn't get exposed that long)

    In general, i don't think we will get any type of Titan construct (no machines, no guys made of stones, etc...)
    Well, they are working on curing the Lepers in the Gnome starting area.

    But yeah. I think keeping the playable races fleshy is the way to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Well the "Flame-elves" are druids, i would prefer to add these option like the warlock quest (you do an epic quest to became a druid of the flame)

    These would be more a new race because the difference between a Satyr and the NE are way to big
    Yeah, we're on the same page here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    These could be a possibility, even more when you realise that Exodar is full of Brokens

    Actually Nobundo has lost one type feets because at the beggining all the draneais had used Lost ones models in WC3, that's why he model have that... now lorewise the lost ones are... well... mentally lost but is not impossible to get them we have a group in swamp of sorrows that have connections with the alliance.

    I would love these, but i would not add these as a sub-race but as different body types

    Ermmm they could find a way to explain how these guys join the draneais but... is unlikely
    Wasn't talking about the WC3 model.

    Was referring to this: http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/wowp...e/Unbroken.jpg The feet are more like Lost One feet there, instead of the weird-toed Broken ones they have now. I like this foot design better.

    Body types would be good too, and yeah... I agree that Man'ari would be an awful, awful idea. But if you were really hard pressed to find subraces...

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