1. #1961
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Vrykul will not ever be a sub-race they could be added as a race in another expansion but not a subraces, also they could join the horde or the alliance, it only depends how Blizzard manipulate the lore

    These could work but as you said, the problem would be how to implement them in the alliance

    I really don't understand why people want to put the HE with the humans, they are NE subraces, i know that they have more in common with the humans and it would make more sense if they started in the human zone but they could be added as a NE subrace and still start in the human starting area

    I have always seen these as the most effective way to give the alliance the high elves (i know they are not HE but at least is something), and yes they would be easy to implement, just modify a little bit the humans model and TADA HALF-ELF
    It seems we're agreed here. I should note that I was never just looking at the best options, but examining all of them. I could have been more blunt about the ones I thought were terrible, but I think I express sufficient unease with certain options.

    Half-Elf is probably the best option I suggested, with Azotha as an intriguing possibility with the more archaic Vrykul-like features they could bring. Features that may have faded away from the bulk of modern humanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    These could be possible, but... can they live away from cold areas?

    I doubt it, they have no connection to the alliance (without counting the fact that they are the Dwarf ancestors)...
    I don't think there's any lore that says Frostborn can't survive outside of the cold, is there? It's not on their Wowpedia description page, and that seems like it would be important. So, I guess there probably wouldn't be a contradiction here...

    And yeah, I don't like Earthen as a possibility either. Had to address all possibilities, even the ones I thought were silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Is not really hard to implement them lorewise, i mean... all the gnome players came out of a city infected with radiation and you had no protection, is actually weird that you didn't get any type of mutations (they could say that the radiation afected only the body but not the mind because you didn't get exposed that long)

    In general, i don't think we will get any type of Titan construct (no machines, no guys made of stones, etc...)
    Well, they are working on curing the Lepers in the Gnome starting area.

    But yeah. I think keeping the playable races fleshy is the way to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Well the "Flame-elves" are druids, i would prefer to add these option like the warlock quest (you do an epic quest to became a druid of the flame)

    These would be more a new race because the difference between a Satyr and the NE are way to big
    Yeah, we're on the same page here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    These could be a possibility, even more when you realise that Exodar is full of Brokens

    Actually Nobundo has lost one type feets because at the beggining all the draneais had used Lost ones models in WC3, that's why he model have that... now lorewise the lost ones are... well... mentally lost but is not impossible to get them we have a group in swamp of sorrows that have connections with the alliance.

    I would love these, but i would not add these as a sub-race but as different body types

    Ermmm they could find a way to explain how these guys join the draneais but... is unlikely
    Wasn't talking about the WC3 model.

    Was referring to this: http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/wowp...e/Unbroken.jpg The feet are more like Lost One feet there, instead of the weird-toed Broken ones they have now. I like this foot design better.

    Body types would be good too, and yeah... I agree that Man'ari would be an awful, awful idea. But if you were really hard pressed to find subraces...

  2. #1962
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    Was referring to this: http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/wowp...e/Unbroken.jpg The feet are more like Lost One feet there, instead of the weird-toed Broken ones they have now. I like this foot design better.
    Oh well... that's true, that's how most Broken looks in arts


    I think they have those weird looking feets in game because they use the tauren model with different heads so it was easier to just change texture than modify the feets...

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW look what i found!

    A half-dranei unused model


  3. #1963
    Quote Originally Posted by Skayth View Post
    Well Shit... what about the original orc warlocks? Oh right they were shamans. Deep down, all magic goes back to the arcane.
    They were shaman before they turned to the art of arcane.

  4. #1964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Oh well... that's true, that's how most Broken looks in arts


    I think they have those weird looking feets in game because they use the tauren model with different heads so it was easier to just change texture than modify the feets...

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW look what i found!

    A half-dranei unused model

    Where the heck did you find that half draenei?
    Some people really like flavor. Occasionally subsisting on nutrient paste just doesn't feel the same as eating a steak. I get that flavor isn't for everyone, but I doubt removing all cosmetic indicators from the game would be appealing either. Nobody want to log in, queue to fight modestly sized blue checked box boss #7, initiate combat using an attack sequence of abilities 1-7 with a 13 beat repeat coda intermittently, and collect item level 630 slot 7 gear either.

  5. #1965
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    I'd be sad if they chose to add half-elves over high elves. I hate hybrids, especially for fantasy races with very little relation to one another. People like myself, who want to play high elves, want elves, not just humans with slightly pointier than usual ears.

    Hadjikostas did seem to have HE in mind when discussing subraces, though.
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  6. #1966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotrip View Post
    Where the heck did you find that half draenei?
    I was just checking random things in internet, is in Wowwiki

    Note: That model is pretty old i was datamined in 2007 (Burnin Crusade i believe)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    I'd be sad if they chose to add half-elves over high elves. I hate hybrids, especially for fantasy races with very little relation to one another. People like myself, who want to play high elves, want elves, not just humans with slightly pointier than usual ears.

    Hadjikostas did seem to have HE in mind when discussing subraces, though.
    Well... the problem is that i would prefer if they in the future add the HE as a race with new and unique model, when it comes to subraces is less likely for us to get unique races....

    Also HE are not human subraces and the HE and NE don't get along and they have a really different culture

  7. #1967
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    I think that is just a female orc with a male Draenei texture overlayed + Photoshop. You could probably recreate it with Tmorph or something.
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  8. #1968
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    I think that is just a female orc with a male Draenei texture overlayed + Photoshop. You could probably recreate it with Tmorph or something.
    Yeah is a female orc with a male draenei texture, but no is not photoshop it is in the database... but as i said these's a pretty old model, so it was most likely never implemented cause Blizzard didn't liked it

  9. #1969
    Good job look really nice. I want that red orc.

  10. #1970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Well... the problem is that i would prefer if they in the future add the HE as a race with new and unique model, when it comes to subraces is less likely for us to get unique races....

    Also HE are not human subraces and the HE and NE don't get along and they have a really different culture
    I don't know how many times I have to say this. It is just a slot in the end. A subrace slot doesn't imply that the races get on or anything of the sort. I would also like them as a race, with unique models etc etc., but if the alternative is no HE, I have no issue with them being added in as a subrace. There's nothing stopping them from doing this and giving them a unique new model, or at least different animations, tattoos, voices etc. to the new BE model. I do agree, though, that sticking them under humans as a subrace is a bit odd, as the obvious Alliance race would be the NE.

    As Yig and I have pointed out in this thread, previously, if the Kaldorei could allow back in the Shen'dralar, they can no doubt come to accept their quel'dorei brethren. The lore has advanced a lot since vanilla, and the Kaldorei have since accepted draenei, humans (incl. worgen) and the Shen'dralar in their midst.

    Like the worgen, they could get their own district in Darnassus, or potentially join the Highborne in reclaiming Eldre'thalas, in addition to their enclaves in Dalaran and SW, and elsewhere.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2014-03-14 at 08:14 PM.
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  11. #1971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    I don't know how many times I have to say this. It is just a slot in the end. A subrace slot doesn't imply that the races get on or anything of the sort. I would also like them as a race, with unique models etc etc., but if the alternative is no HE, I have no issue with them being added in as a subrace. There's nothing stopping them from doing this and giving them a unique new model, or at least different animations, tattoos, voices etc. to the new BE model. I do agree, though, that sticking them under humans as a subrace is a bit odd, as the obvious Alliance race would be the NE.

    As Yig and I have pointed out in this thread, previously, if the Kaldorei could allow back in the Shen'dralar, they can no doubt come to accept their quel'dorei brethren. The lore has advanced a lot since vanilla, and the Kaldorei have since accepted draenei, humans (incl. worgen) and the Shen'dralar in their midst.

    Like the worgen, they could get their own district in Darnassus, or potentially join the Highborne in reclaiming Eldre'thalas, in addition to their enclaves in Dalaran and SW, and elsewhere.
    I understand, im just basing what i said in the idea that a subrace would be the same race with a couple of modifications (if they were to create new models, they would had created new races instead, don't you think? -Note: i know that new races don't only need new models they new a lot of things, like starting zone, lore, reasons why they join, ETC...).

    IMO the lore problem is not the NE to accept the HE, is the HE to accept the NE, but yeah it could be explained

  12. #1972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    I don't know how many times I have to say this. It is just a slot in the end. A subrace slot doesn't imply that the races get on or anything of the sort. I would also like them as a race, with unique models etc etc., but if the alternative is no HE, I have no issue with them being added in as a subrace. There's nothing stopping them from doing this and giving them a unique new model, or at least different animations, tattoos, voices etc. to the new BE model. I do agree, though, that sticking them under humans as a subrace is a bit odd, as the obvious Alliance race would be the NE.

    As Yig and I have pointed out in this thread, previously, if the Kaldorei could allow back in the Shen'dralar, they can no doubt come to accept their quel'dorei brethren. The lore has advanced a lot since vanilla, and the Kaldorei have since accepted draenei, humans (incl. worgen) and the Shen'dralar in their midst.

    Like the worgen, they could get their own district in Darnassus, or potentially join the Highborne in reclaiming Eldre'thalas, in addition to their enclaves in Dalaran and SW, and elsewhere.
    I get where you are coming from with seeing the Quel'dorei as a subrace of the Kaldorei.

    However, I think the Quel'dorei would make more sense as a subspecies to Humans(I too, rather see them as a new race, just like Ogres), why you might think?

    Well, mainly because unlike the Kaldorei/Shen'dralas culture, that has been almost the same for the last 10,000 years, the Quel'dorei culture has evolved into much the opposite of their Kaldorei ancestors. Not only do they make extreme use of the Arcane (even compared to the Shen'dralar), but they also worship the Light (not Elune) and they have a general dislike for the Kaldorei because of the banishment from their homes and the fact that, unlike the Shen'dralar, the Quel'dorei's ancestors unleashed a immense magical storm on Ashenvale, they've also been trying to get their hands on the Kaldorei Moonwells and the list probably goes on. Overall, Quel'dorei culture, norms and society these days has more in common with Humanity then their ancestors, so wanting them as a Kaldorei subspecies is like wanting Kaldorei as a Troll subspecies.

    And you may ask me about the Worgen, but ingame only Druidic Worgen or those that more or less embraced their curse live in Teldrassil and the Kaldorei Empire, but their King and a ingame majority of Gilneans live in Stormwind and are even settling/building villages in the Kingdom of Stormwind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    I understand, im just basing what i said in the idea that a subrace would be the same race with a couple of modifications (if they were to create new models, they would had created new races instead, don't you think? -Note: i know that new races don't only need new models they new a lot of things, like starting zone, lore, reasons why they join, ETC...).

    IMO the lore problem is not the NE to accept the HE, is the HE to accept the NE, but yeah it could be explained
    I disagree, some species, like the Krokul, are actual sub-species that need entirelly different models then their "parent" race, so according to you they shouldn't be added because of them having a different model?

  13. #1973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowtwili View Post
    I disagree, some species, like the Krokul, are actual sub-species that need entirelly different models then their "parent" race, so according to you they shouldn't be added because of them having a different model?
    Well the HE and BE are sub-species too, the HE are NE sub-specie but no the new model is not the only thing, the problem is that HE have more unique lore, more unique structures and so on from all the other Alliance races..., while the Broken (Krokul) don't have any different from the Draneais without couting the models.

  14. #1974
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Why is people so bothered by having the BE in the horde? if the BE were in the alliance they would be HE not BE, IMO it would have been really weird if the BE from WC3 would have been in the alliance, unless you had given the alliance HE and the horde something else, like Ogres or something
    because they had been alliance all throughout warcraft. there was going to be an alliance only faction of blood elves called the silvermoon remnants in azshara that even made it into the patch notes but it got cut, pretty much all the high and blood elves ingame were alliance up until bc, alleria windrunner, one of the heroes of quel'thalas was nicknamed orc slayer and the horde are allied with forest trolls, the blood elves greatest enemy.

    and before anyone tries to say im getting darkspear and forest trolls mixed up im not, the horde is allied to the darkspear and the revantusk tribe and before those the amani tribe. the horde burned and pillaged their forests and aside from arthas are the only people to have ever marched upon quel'thalas.

    the one and only reason they joined the horde is because the alliance outnumbered the horde and they were one of the most requested playable races. so they put blood elves on the horde, and it worked, the horde is now 33% blood elf.
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  15. #1975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowtwili View Post
    I get where you are coming from with seeing the Quel'dorei as a subrace of the Kaldorei.

    However, I think the Quel'dorei would make more sense as a subspecies to Humans(I too, rather see them as a new race, just like Ogres), why you might think?

    Well, mainly because unlike the Kaldorei/Shen'dralas culture, that has been almost the same for the last 10,000 years, the Quel'dorei culture has evolved into much the opposite of their Kaldorei ancestors. Not only do they make extreme use of the Arcane (even compared to the Shen'dralar), but they also worship the Light (not Elune) and they have a general dislike for the Kaldorei because of the banishment from their homes and the fact that, unlike the Shen'dralar, the Quel'dorei's ancestors unleashed a immense magical storm on Ashenvale, they've also been trying to get their hands on the Kaldorei Moonwells and the list probably goes on. Overall, Quel'dorei culture, norms and society these days has more in common with Humanity then their ancestors, so wanting them as a Kaldorei subspecies is like wanting Kaldorei as a Troll subspecies.
    Lets not over-play the Light worship. It was said to have not been prominent in Quel'thalas before the race's schism, and even then their priests were 'mage-priests', so it is unlikely they worshipped the Holy Light per se, barring those elves who joined the Silver Hand. The quel'dorei are very similar to the pre-Sundering Highborne, before they became corrupted. The lore indicates that the Highborne priesthood worshipped (or rather, revered) not Elune but Azshara. Whilst this did not occur amongst the quel'dorei, their culture is also focused around a powerful monarchy, and of course their reverence for the Sunwell, much like the Highborne's for their Well. The principal difference is that the quel'dorei became a lot more cautious. Events stuck thousands of years in the past are going to be forgotten eventually. I mean the Shen'dralar are no saints, possibly a good deal worse in the eyes of a traditionalist kaldorei, yet the kaldorei have grudgingly accepted them.

    This, plus their longevity, puts them closer with their Highborne ancestors. The blood elves, particularly in TBC, resemble the Highborne in their more reckless days, albeit out of desperation rather than choice this time.

    Trolls are a non-starter since they don't exist on Alliance, to begin with. I am simply pointing out that whether they get a race slot or a subrace slot, it's irrelevant, as it's not a statement as to how well they fit with the race under which the slot comes. This is because some people keep bringing up the supposedly dim view the kaldorei hold of their cousins. To me, this is irrelevant, even if it's true. They have an ancestral affiliation with them, and this alone is a good reason to put them under that particular slot rather than humans.

    It's just a way to introduce them without some people whining about Alliance getting a "horde race", however stupid such a statement may be. I would very much favour them being introduced as a race in their own right, I think the time is ripe for it, but failing that, there's other ways.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2014-03-14 at 10:51 PM.
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  16. #1976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    because they had been alliance all throughout warcraft. there was going to be an alliance only faction of blood elves called the silvermoon remnants in azshara that even made it into the patch notes but it got cut, pretty much all the high and blood elves ingame were alliance up until bc, alleria windrunner, one of the heroes of quel'thalas was nicknamed orc slayer and the horde are allied with forest trolls, the blood elves greatest enemy.
    True, but so were the Night Elfs in the Horde...

    and before anyone tries to say im getting darkspear and forest trolls mixed up im not, the horde is allied to the darkspear and the revantusk tribe and before those the amani tribe. the horde burned and pillaged their forests and aside from arthas are the only people to have ever marched upon quel'thalas.
    True, but they left the horde as soon as the BE joined...

    the one and only reason they joined the horde is because the alliance outnumbered the horde and they were one of the most requested playable races. so they put blood elves on the horde, and it worked, the horde is now 33% blood elf.
    They also have a big connecting with the forsaken

  17. #1977
    Further thoughts had.

    Best Subrace choices would be ones that could easily fit in with the overall culture of their primary race, so that they're basically part of the same overall racial faction in some sense.

  18. #1978
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    Further thoughts had.

    Best Subrace choices would be ones that could easily fit in with the overall culture of their primary race, so that they're basically part of the same overall racial faction in some sense.
    I agree completely

  19. #1979
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    I understand, im just basing what i said in the idea that a subrace would be the same race with a couple of modifications (if they were to create new models, they would had created new races instead, don't you think? -Note: i know that new races don't only need new models they new a lot of things, like starting zone, lore, reasons why they join, ETC...).

    IMO the lore problem is not the NE to accept the HE, is the HE to accept the NE, but yeah it could be explained
    They have lost their beloved forests of Qual'thalas. They would gain the forests of Hyjal, and the land of their ancient ancestors.
    Elves love forests. They could share and be reunited with their ancient cousins, or blaze a new colony in Feralas.

    And I don't see them being an option for Night Elves as all that different as giving Pandaren females a red fox with a tail. Just shoehorn the thing in there, who cares. It's just an elf with a different body type and skin color at the end of the day.

    But they must look distinct from blood elves through their idle stances and posture IMO, if not their animations. An eye color swap would feel cheap.
    Last edited by Yig; 2014-03-15 at 03:10 AM.
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  20. #1980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Yeah is a female orc with a male draenei texture, but no is not photoshop it is in the database... but as i said these's a pretty old model, so it was most likely never implemented cause Blizzard didn't liked it
    I'd say it's far more likely it's either a hack or that silly bug that can cause your char to use some other player's textures. Because I've been playing around with the model viewer since vanilla and have never seen that model outside this particular pic.



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