I didn't even know you had any choices at all in Siege O_O You can choose what boss you do after Malkorok?!
I really do hope they make non-linear raids in the future; they've said as much for WoD but they said that before too. I don't mind having a requirement to kill all the bosses to unlock the final boss, but give some choice especially with large raids so if we are having trouble on Boss E, we can give Boss E or Boss G or boss H a couple of tries as well.
Is this to your tastes?
As far as I can tell, you know when you killed Deathbringer Saurfang in ICC and you went through the door? Similar thing to that. 3 wings, 3 bosses in each, then that final boss in the center. I don't mind this being a sort of "template" for a raid layout as long as it's not 3/3/3 each time. They got it right in Vanilla with Naxxramas and in WOTLK for Naxxramas, but people didn't really cotton on to how cool of an idea that is until after ICC. Naxx was 3/3/4/3-2. And that final bit was a nice addition. ICC was naxx but in reverse where you had linear bosses then wings.
Long as they don't do it for every tier and overwork it then I think this is definitely a step in the right direction. Gogo Ion Hazzi-fuck-this-name, read mmoc. I don't know if you yourself would but I'm sure some of your peons in the office must, and I'm certain of that. No company would miss out on having access to feedback websites such as mmoc/wowhead.
Icecrown Citadel has three wings you can do in any order (and plague wing lets you choose to do Rotface or Festergut first).
Ruby Sanctum lets you do the mini bosses in any order.
Blackrock Descent lets you choose between Magmaw and Defense System first, then you can do any of the other bosses before Nefarian in any order.
Firelands lets you do the first four bosses in any order.
Dragon Soul lets you pick between Yor'sahj and General Zon'ozz.
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Not that any world class guilds did skip anything this tier. It was well balanced in a linear fashion. Unlike ToT where Horridon was a massive difficulty spike.
I actually really liked how Naxx (2.0 as that was the only version I saw) played out, as you had the wings with their own difficulties, so if you could work on one wing and if you were having trouble swap to a different wing, kill the easier first boss and do some progress on a later boss. I'm really surprised they didn't stick with that format, TBH.
I raided Kara, ZA, a small amount of SSC and Hyjal, Naxx2.0/EoE/OS, Ulduar, TOC, ICC, BoT/BWD/To4W, FL, and DS all in their "current content" period and I wouldn't say that they've ever produced a "bad" raid. I actually kinda liked TOC. Lorewise it seemed a little bit unnecessary but doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it. DS was less enjoyable but I wouldn't call it bad. I think if they mix it up with a few more "winged" raids but stick with the larger ones then they're on the right path. I know they started doing these 4-8 boss raids as a happy medium between tiny raids and huge raids, but I actually think you need to be at either extreme to do it right. I quite liked EoE and I got a huge nostalgia hit for OS when farming the drakes the other day. One huge raid with 1-2 one boss raids would be simply fantastic, as long as it's not robotic each tier having the same thing. Ruby Sanctum was awful though, more to do with how shit the story was rather than the boss itself.
Oeh my glass is empty (main healer fucks off for new bottle of wine)
Hey standing in this purple/green/red stuff kills you (our epic GM and also healer)
I like boobs and vodka (starts chatting up the healer - the one with the wine) - the sandbox exploding DK
Fuck off give me M&M's (our pala healer)
Where is my pet or why is my pet licking the boss - raid splat (me)
Oeh big red button )))))) (stormy noooooooooooo - raid splat)
Not so confuzzling Merin :P
10 minutes of pure epicness followed by 2 hours of madness
Who were you guys to come between me and Chicken Tikka Naga? Besides, you enjoyed those Star Trek Quizzes you guys did to entertain yourselves when I was gorging. I think you missed out the point where we had a balance druid who didn't show up for a raid and logged on 4 days later to say he was in custody because he *might* have started a fire during a riot but it's cool because it *might* not have been him. I don't know if you were around for that one.
I believe Blizz's stance on this is: truly optional bosses, like Ulduar, cause guild drama because some people have upgrades off them while others think its a waste of time. More non-linear zones would be fine though like FL or ICC.
Of course, with their new key system that will work like current flex, idk if that holds true anymore.
I don't see why people keep bringing up ICC.
If you go back and do it NOW, yeah you have a few choices once you hit a certain point. But that shit didn't exist when it was current. The reason everyone went after rotface and festergut first after saurfang was because blood and frost wings were gated and you couldn't do them. It's why progression went the way it did.
If you were in a GOOD guild, you cleared Saurfang > Rotface/Festergut > Putricide > Blood Princess > Blood Queen > Dreamwalker > Sindragosa
If you were in a mediocre guild you cleared Saurfang > Rotface/Festergut > Blood Princes > Dreamwalker > Putricide > Blood Queen > Sindragosa. And the only reason that worked is because the end bosses of each wing were harder and if you couldn't progress in all the weeks of being gated, you killed easy bosses until it was all opened until you eventually killed some end wing bosses.
The one and only choice you ever had in ICC was do you kill Rotface first or Festergut. That is it. You could only choose between the two and then you still had to kill both before attempting putricide and that was it. Putricide was on farm before the other wings even unlocked. So progression was still linear unless you were in a terrible guild or started way late.
Siege only really has one choice as well, after Malkorok you can choose to do Siegecrafter or "other boss". First other boss being spoils, second other boss being Thok. But you must clear all 3 to move on to paragons. That isn't much of a choice.
Tempest Keep and SSC were the only raids that really had choices. You could do hydross, or skip him. Do lurker, or skip him. Do leotheras or skip him. Do the sea giant dude, or skip him. I believe you could even do the fight with the 5 bosses before clearing leotheras or the sea giant guy as well if you simply walked around them, we never did this so I can't say for certain.
The only choice you didn't have was Vashj and you were required to beat all the other bosses before you could fight her. And since she is the end boss, that is totally fine and acceptable.
TK was the same way. You chose which bosses you wanted but you had to do them all to get to Kael'thas.
Much better design imo. Ulduar also had a lot of choices. Forced flame leviathan, then you had 3 options. After XT you had another 2-3 choices depending on if you were algalon keyed or not. After kalogarn you had like 5 choices. Then after all that, forced into two more linear progress fights. That was fine, and good imo.
I'm not a fan of linear raids. It feels too much like hand holding when you just get in there and are stuck in a tunnel the entire time with only one direction to move in. You can't deviate from your path, you are stuck on rails. I hate it. Personally i'd rather you had the ability to explore a little bit, have the potential to get lost, and part of refining your clearing of it on farm is choosing which path is the most efficient to move through. But you don't get choices anymore, nor do you have to think anymore, it's all one long tunnel and you can only move forward.
I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.
Nothing has been linear since Raid Finder was introduced because raid finder has to be on rails.
I liked tier 11 a lot because some of the top guilds would be working on Blackwing Descent, some would be working on Bastion of Twilight and others were working in Throne of the Four Winds.
The guy above me is funny though. Last time I checked heroic Icecrown unlocked all at the same time, so you could choose which of the three wings you wanted to do.
You can here see that 9/12 HC was cleared on the first day, leaving sindragosa, putricide and lich king HC standing.
Also you are correct that you gained more tries over time, during the normal gating you first had 5 attempts when plaguewing was released and you got more as other wings unlocked. Once heroic started though it kept increasing but now on a weekly basis, until it stopped at 50.
And then you had the stacking 5% stat-increase increasing every 4th week, which started counting from HC release.
Just to throw some dates in there aswell from paragon's kills in ICC:
Marrowgar normal: Dec 9th 2009
Lich king normal: Feb 4th 2010
All nonendbosses + Blood Queen HC: Feb 10th 2010
Sindragosa HC: Feb 11th 2010
Putricide HC: Feb 12th 2010
Lich King HC: Mar 26th 2010
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...aycer/advanced Rogue from Ascendance Draenor EU
It's only game. Why you heff to be med? - Ilya Bryzgalov