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  1. #1

    WoW PVP Unsalvageable after 5.4?

    Hey guys,

    I've been playing wow for a long time and have seen every patch that was looked at as "bad". Patch 5.4 is definitely alarming. Some mechanics in the game right now are so unfair and blatantly favorite certain classes.

    I just wanted to bring up the topic of, "Do you guys think pvp in WoW has gone too far down the drain?". So many of my friends (who have played for a long time, around late vanilla) have quit due to this patch, and it's making me question the game. I love this game and have so many memories here, but the direction the game is going in is disappointing.

  2. #2
    I personally think Blizzard made their priority firmly PvE > PvP after WotLK. They can't ever admit to that and never will, but there's a lot of evidence for it (simple, important PvP fixes that go unfixed for months/years, new abilities each expansion that are designed for PvE fun but are patently absurd in PvP, etc etc). I actually think they should bite the bullet and make a very WoW-like game (even a literal spin-off) that is just PvP, then cut PvP out of old WoW.

    Having said that if you play with a sense of humour and don't expect anything close to balance, there is still a decent amount of PvP fun to be had.

  3. #3
    High Overlord aceventura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aglassofmilk View Post
    Patch 5.4 is definitely alarming. Some mechanics in the game right now are so unfair and blatantly favorite certain classes.
    Please be more spesific what exactly. I can't realy understand all this QQ allover PVP threads, seems PVP comunity turning into army of whiners without good reason. Game is balanced like never been before, yes with sacrifice to class uniqess and adding more control abilities. No PVE items are better than curent tier PVP item, all classes and most specs are competitive, 3 brand new battlegrounds this expansion with brand new concepts, removing elite gear and so on and so on. Yes some things like world pvp need some attention, so is wintrading, but that will come in WoD.

  4. #4
    As good as MoP is, the PvP is really bad. 5.4 isn't as bad as 5.0, but just like, ick.

    To say nothing of the fact that pvp gear is undesirable unless you want to battleground a lot. It's basically like this:


    If you want to BG, RBG, or arena, you need PvP gear.
    If you need PvP gear, you need to RBG and arena.
    -> You'd be better off on tournament realm!


    This is important, because the pvp gear is so awful that there's four whole tiers of it better in pve, all of which launched this patch. If you world pvp with it, there's 2-3 tiers better than it, depending on your class and priority. So, there's virtually no gearing draw, and you still have to grind the gear up, and if you were interested in doing that it isn't for pve or world pvp, it's solely for ranking, and if THAT is what you want -> tournament realm.


    Pretty disturbing tbh. You would think they wouldn't have such a high opinion of the LFR and flex pve gear, or any gear, given how rapidly they wipe gear.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral taishar68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aglassofmilk View Post
    Hey guys,

    I've been playing wow for a long time and have seen every patch that was looked at as "bad". Patch 5.4 is definitely alarming. Some mechanics in the game right now are so unfair and blatantly favorite certain classes.

    I just wanted to bring up the topic of, "Do you guys think pvp in WoW has gone too far down the drain?". So many of my friends (who have played for a long time, around late vanilla) have quit due to this patch, and it's making me question the game. I love this game and have so many memories here, but the direction the game is going in is disappointing.
    Yes. It is hopeless. Blizzard will remove it from the game in WoD, because it is so abysmal.

  6. #6
    Admittedly I mostly pve but when I do pvp I gotta say the single most frustrating thing is the amount of cc everyone has, as a warrior it's almost impossible to get off a good rotation as the moment I charge someone I'm instantly cc'd, that would be fine if it was only a few cc'd but I find majority of the time I'm cc'd 100% to dead. I know pvp isn't balanced for battlegrounds but its just too much and turns me off from wanting to pvp more. I think for me it they changed the way cc'd work in pvp so your not always locked down it would be much better.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral taishar68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oncereborn View Post
    Admittedly I mostly pve but when I do pvp I gotta say the single most frustrating thing is the amount of cc everyone has, as a warrior it's almost impossible to get off a good rotation as the moment I charge someone I'm instantly cc'd, that would be fine if it was only a few cc'd but I find majority of the time I'm cc'd 100% to dead. I know pvp isn't balanced for battlegrounds but its just too much and turns me off from wanting to pvp more. I think for me it they changed the way cc'd work in pvp so your not always locked down it would be much better.
    As far as I know, warriors are assumed to be op in PvP currently, so you may be seeing more than other classes in regards to cc.

  8. #8
    to aceventura and all

    Love the name and the movie!

    The changes they made from 5.3 -> 5.4. There are a few specifics that come to mind.

    a) Feral druids: Why would you take away the only CC that made them viable? They needed a damage change and a way to be peeled. They did not need their only CC taken away; completely unnecessary. Possibly put shift on a 3 charge, 10 second cd just like feathers.

    b) Shadow priests: Why would you take out their dmg reduction? They were killable last patch, it just took effort. No reason for that change. The damage buff does not appear to make them relevant is pve as well! I'm still scratching my head about that change.

    c) Warrior mobility: They just nerfed intervene to where warriors must select safeguard, which was needed. But why would they buff mobility, defense, and offensive abilities? Makes no sense to give one class all of that at one time. I can't remember a patch where they buffed one class like that.

    d) Rogue damage: Although their damage is not outrageous, it is different than what it used to be. I always looked at the class as control > dmg.

    Also, the overall fact that if you have to cast in the game right now, you will not do well. Or your life will be extremely hard.

    I do not want to be perceived as a QQ'er. I play a mage and think their dmg, survivability, and CC is outrageous. I believe they certainly need a nerf to dmg or procs. I just think it is a relevant discussion that effects us all, and I wanted others input/opinion on the topic.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans DiscoGhost's Avatar
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    im leveling all my alts all right now to 90 then pretty much stopping, to say the least.
    You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

  10. #10
    PVP in MMOs will never be balanced. You will have to get used to that fact. If you want 100% balanced PVP you will have to play Counterstrike or something. Balance and class uniqueness are mutually exclusive.

    Even PVP-focused MMOs over the years had terrible class balance. I'd say the WoW PVP balance is pretty good compared to some of the MMOs I have played.

  11. #11
    They should be able to see trends a hell of a lot better than we do, and yet it takes them forever to react to it. I wonder if they actually want people to spot the fotm class, level it to 90, gear it up and still be able to play it for 2 months until next patch. Perhaps the fotm class is a business strategy?

  12. #12
    Epic! Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    I feel like Blizzard doesn't learn their mistakes. For the past few years warriors have gone like this:
    Patch 1) Warriors overpowered. Patch 2) Warriors somewhat balanced. Patch 3) Warriors overpowered. And that goes on for years at a time.

    They seem to make changes without considering the possible negatives of them, and then after that patch they completely forget anything they'd learned through that trial and error.

    I think the worst thing they've done for PVP in 9 years of WoW, was implementing the base resilience. It gave PVE players the edge and made PVP gear obsolete for world PVP and even some RBG/Arena.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by aceventura View Post
    Please be more spesific what exactly. I can't realy understand all this QQ allover PVP threads, seems PVP comunity turning into army of whiners without good reason. Game is balanced like never been before, yes with sacrifice to class uniqess and adding more control abilities. No PVE items are better than curent tier PVP item, all classes and most specs are competitive, 3 brand new battlegrounds this expansion with brand new concepts, removing elite gear and so on and so on. Yes some things like world pvp need some attention, so is wintrading, but that will come in WoD.
    You know PvP hasn't been balanced since Season 8 (Season 3 was balanced too), right? The game's PvP has gone downhill ever since Wrath of the Lich King ended. They really need to go back and look at what made it so balanced and learn from the mistakes they've kept creating every season thereafter.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Bluesftw's Avatar
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    sure its salvagable , but thre are things that need to be done that blizz refuse to do, such as separate effects on spells for pvp and pve, and removing instants / casts on the move instead of adding more... also some gap closers could be toned down after removing instants

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by aceventura View Post
    Please be more spesific what exactly. I can't realy understand all this QQ allover PVP threads, seems PVP comunity turning into army of whiners without good reason. Game is balanced like never been before, yes with sacrifice to class uniqess and adding more control abilities. No PVE items are better than curent tier PVP item, all classes and most specs are competitive, 3 brand new battlegrounds this expansion with brand new concepts, removing elite gear and so on and so on. Yes some things like world pvp need some attention, so is wintrading, but that will come in WoD.
    Most classes are not competative at all.

  16. #16
    the problem is every spec viable =crap!just like the blue post on the front page-frost mages ect want to pve as frost= shitty pvp,this goes for all classes.blizz needs to go back to pvp and pve spec and separate the two= much improved pvp balance.blizz also need to make Armour matter again,give the classes different hit points again,aka making the classes different.but that goes against every spec viable so it will not happen.

    " Q-I never understood after dual spec was added why you guys didn't stop trying to balance pve and pvp and just have a pvp spec"
    A-Some Frost mages and Sub rogues want to PvE with that spec. Not saying that's the best design, but that was the motivation.

  17. #17
    Well put Jez.

    So to the OP: Yes. Unsalvageable.

  18. #18
    This PVE and PVP will never be balanced because :

    1. Spell damage for PVE and PVP is not separated ( probably should given another field in database for PVP ).
    atm, the only thing separate the damage taken is resilience and it's so static.
    Not saying it's bad, but when a spec QQ in PVE Raid damage meter, buffing the damage for the raid mean buffing the damage for PVP too.
    What happen to PVE should happen in PVE, the formula damage between PVE and PVP should be separated.

    2. PVE don't have their own unique stat on their gear( should have PVE power or something that only effect fighting NPC/mob)
    Every patch PVE-ers expect 40-75% increase dps on their new gear. This damage comes from increment Primary Stat ( Int, Agi, Str) and Secondary Stat ( Haste, Crit, Mastery ).
    Unfortunately it also will effect on PVP. if they just add another stat like PVE Power ( damage increase against NPC/mob ), put the the primary stat and sec stat level the same as ( let's just say ) 535 ( even for 566 Heroic Gear ), add PVE Power ( higher item level higher PVE power ),
    for example 540 gear = 535 + 5% PVE Power, 553 = 535 + 15% PVE Power,
    then this whining PVE and PVP in World PVP will not happen.

  19. #19
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oncereborn View Post
    Admittedly I mostly pve but when I do pvp I gotta say the single most frustrating thing is the amount of cc everyone has, as a warrior it's almost impossible to get off a good rotation as the moment I charge someone I'm instantly cc'd, that would be fine if it was only a few cc'd but I find majority of the time I'm cc'd 100% to dead. I know pvp isn't balanced for battlegrounds but its just too much and turns me off from wanting to pvp more. I think for me it they changed the way cc'd work in pvp so your not always locked down it would be much better.
    That goes for everyone, and as a warrior you're better at dealing with them than anyone else atm.
    Fighting warriors in a group setting is like trying to steer away a freight train with a toothpick.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Clonan View Post
    That goes for everyone, and as a warrior you're better at dealing with them than anyone else atm.
    Fighting warriors in a group setting is like trying to steer away a freight train with a toothpick.
    THIS!!!! I have 9 toons only because I don't want 10 or 11. However, I'm almost ready to roll a warrior just because it's got to be fun to be as OP as wars are right now.

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