1. #1

    Windwalker Monk in PvP, how can I get better? Advice?

    I am in complete love with Arenas already. I never expected to like them. I did them for fun at first, and then I got a five piece set of Grevious gear + weapons. (Paid 50g/win while trying to learn).

    I grouped up with a shaman for some wins just for fun, they asked me. Here was the result of our second match: http://i.imgur.com/MNSH5j7.png

    That was a long round, the round lasted fifteen minutes. I could've sworn we would've hit the timer but my shaman friend had to leave to get his kids to school.

    Anyways. I'm not a very good monk, though that round was a great deal of fun. Does anyone have any advice for a monk in PvP or in arenas in general? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    I want to become better. ^_^.

    My armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...anton/advanced
    Hi! I play a hunter. .

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Since it looks like you're just getting into pvp for the first time, I don't think there's much that needs to be said. I mean the amount of knowledge you need to pvp at a high level in this game is enormous, but it would be far too much to take in at once.

    I guess the best advice I can give is to keep an open mind and a good attitude. You're going to lose a lot so don't worry about when it happens. Even if it was a close game and you should've won, it doesn't matter. If you can keep in a good mood you'll be more focused and your partners will stick around longer, both of which are very helpful towards learning the game.

    Next, try to watch everything but your own abilities. Naturally I have no idea how comfortable you are with your class, but I know a lot of newer players like to stare at their actionbars. You want to glance at them occasionally to check cooldowns but mostly watch what your opponents and teammates are doing. Whether it's their physical position on the map and animations or your arena/target/focus frame, having an understanding here is crucial to playing well and you can learn a lot. Pay extra close attention to other people playing your class; they may do something in a way you hadn't thought of or just have an interesting playstyle.

    Learning other classes is a big part of arena. It's one of the longer and more tedious aspects, but there are good resources out there like wowhead to help. Again I don't know what your working knowledge of other classes may be, but between buff icons and obvious animations it shouldn't take too long to start learning major cooldowns. Gladiatorlossa is an extremely popular PvP addon nowadays and may help a great deal with this process. I don't use it myself but the majority of my arena partners swear by it. Either way, I recommend trying to learn buff icons. If you don't recognize something, you should mouse over it to see the name and remember to search it on wowhead later. Some major cooldowns like icy veins and shadow blades aren't obvious in any way but recognizing their icon.

    You may find processes that work well for you. While I was trying to relearn the game this expansion, I found the best way was being able to reflect on games after the fact. I'd do a few hours of arena and then try to figure out exactly what mechanics we were having trouble with and brainstorm every possible solution. My partners prefer to watch videos on skillcapped or twitch for ideas, so there are different approaches.

    Lastly, you want to have a very strong understanding of your own class. There are guides like this one if you're a little shaky on anything. A player that can maximize their damage is going to do well. Practising on training dummies is recommended if you don't already have a good grasp on this.

    In short, just play a lot. Even duels and battlegrounds help. Try to learn something from every game. Before long there'll be nothing left to learn. Hopefully this is helpful, and good luck.

  3. #3
    Thank you nerdjames! I started watching the Brofist videos, I googled around and he was doing 2v1 as a monk. I'm watching others. It seems Windwalker monks are very rare. I played 156 games in the past few days and I only saw another windwalker monk once. Did I simply choose the wrong class? I hear some classes just don't work in Arena right now.

    I did get gladius and that other addon that's hard to spell you mentioned. The guy carrying me for the first time told me to use them and just keep practicing. I am also learning to manage my own cooldowns, like touch of karma using at start is no use. I'm now using it at lower health when being pounded upon hard. I shall start trying to learn buff icons. Thank you! I do find frost mages sure can keep me rooted nearly the whole match, so being melee puts me at a disadvantage.

    So in theory keep practicing and just keep learning?
    Hi! I play a hunter. .

  4. #4
    Don't be discouraged if you don't see many of your other specs around, I heal as MW and I rarely come across them in 3s. Although I have run across a few WW monks that have been a real pain to deal with. I don't have any exp as WW but I do know that once you get skilled enough, you will be a pain in the ass to deal with so just keep at it!

  5. #5
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerdjames View Post
    Good post
    This is probably the best advice you're going to find around here. It's basically a well detailed explanation that the only way to get better at this game is to dedicate time and effort to it as an individual. Nobody can actually help you improve unless you motivate yourself to improve and have a good as well as a competitive attitude . As well intended and sweet "guides" on how to play a certain class are, you won't learn anything if you just stare at a video or text and apply the same concepts to your play style. Nor will you learn anything by being the constant bitch by accepting everything that people tell you to do.

    Now for the explanation on why I disagree with some of this post (and its long). The only absolute way of getting "good" at this game or any online game based on my experiences (yours may differ) that has some form of competition is dealing realistically with people. Yes, people. Not you, other people. The real way to get good at this game is to use and manipulate the right people to your advantage while maintaining a hostile competitive environment. You basically have to become an e-jock or better known as an "internet Warrior/keyboard warrior" to advance through the rigid top flight of this games command structure.

    What you need to start doing is to start playing with people of all different kinds. Most people will be your "nice people" that will never improve because everything to them is "gg" and they have this self defeating mentality that "people are better than me, but i'll improve." The mentality you need to have is that your the best player in the game and nobody can stop you. This is something that I can't teach you either, you either "have it" or you don't. What this does, is that it gives you a natural competitive drive with and against people. Good players love playing with arrogant "elitist" players because that's what good players themselves are. Some will be open about it, others will be "quiet and contempt" about it.

    What you do is you look for ultra competitive players like yourself out of the masses of humble idiots that never make it anywhere. It'll be like finding a needle out of a haystack but eventually through determination, you'll find a core group of "bros" that share your attitude and drive to be the best internet wow heroes at the game. The key thing you need to remember is that when you surround yourself around a very competitive environment, you get better because you're forced to get better. When you play to win every single game and put it out there that "you're the best," you need to prove it and never lose.

    And you will lose but losing is good because it gives you an insane drive to get back at those assholes and win. Once you get around "decent" status, the next step to actually get good is to start talking shit to people by either whisper or tea bagging/spit you generally face on a daily basis. Get yourself out there, make a name for yourself as an arrogant douche that leads a core group of idiots that thinks their better than everyone. You want people to start talking shit about how your an elitist douchebag because it means people are talking about you, and want to beat you at their 100%. And when you see them, you know you have to win or else you'll be at the receiving end of the shit talking. And this is a good thing.

    If you do lose, make excuses and talk some more shit that has nothing to do with the game. Stick to personal attacks and mindless banter. That usually gets the winners all riled up into complete madness. But again this is all good because it creates a very open and hostile competitive environment between you and your so called "internet enemies." This also creates a sacred bond with your "bros" because when you lose, they lose. And this bond sometimes will be broken when you find out one of your so called "bros" starts playing with your enemies. Drama ensues, but don't fret, this is good. You want drama because you want payback for that asshole betraying you. Remember the golden rule? Talk shit.

    Don't listen to these humble idiots that make up most of these forums never survive into ratings that actually matter because they can't handle actual confrontation and smack talk. They curl up and cry to themselves that "I'm better because I'm a so called nice person." As cruel as it sounds, being a so called "nice person" puts you in the bitch status among these kinds of people. You will be used and taunted at with no real way to defend yourself as it would break your foolish mentality of "friendly competition."

    The main idea is to never submit, never give in and always attack. When people say "you suck", you respond with "shut up faggot." When you play this game, you need to push yourself to that type of intellectual level. If you don't, you won't move anywhere. Don't believe me? Go to arena junkies and check those forums. Those forums are riddled with narcissistic e-jock lesser males competing with each other by talking shit or starting drama. Even though most of them are probably passive and docile in real life, they're the big fish on the internet because this is their playground, their realm.

    And guess what? They're the best players in the game. Some of them are "good players in training" like yourself that get bullied by the superior players, but remember don't give in to them. Talk shit and lose. If they make fun of your skill and how bad you are, secretly practice and record your own gameplay and see how you can improve. You want to get back at those assholes for disrespecting you and making you look like a scrub. That drive will make you better trust me. And eventually you will beat them.

    And this isn't just only wow but every single game out there. Hope this helps you understand the nature of what you will inevitably have to get yourself into. Don't forget to have fun.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal Shabutie's Avatar
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    No offense but I find most blood elf male players are garbo. Unless they are holy paladins, but even that is rare.

  7. #7
    If I have to become a jerk to play this game, then I won't enjoy this game. I cannot fathom calling someone that and I find it personally offensive. . It saddens me a lot of the great players are jerks and refuse to help. If I can never be a good player because I'm nice, then I don't want to be in that club. I spent my life in a different pattern, different things, inside of a hospital. I'm a docile person online and in the real world.

    I have conquered odds. (I was on the MMO Champion front page for a while about why). I want to conquer them again. If I have to be a jerk, then World of Warcraft will become my least favorite game.

    It has changed a great deal. I remember when everyone was kind and sweet. Asked something in trade people help out, offer to help with quests, etc. Now, this game has become Me! Me! Me! I understand why it has to an extent. But, I will not bend down and be a jerk, greedy, and unhelpful to everyone. This is not me. I will not change that about me. If it makes me a worse player then so be it. I'll start my own club for people that suck and want to be better while being nice.
    Hi! I play a hunter. .

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashkir View Post
    Thank you nerdjames! I started watching the Brofist videos, I googled around and he was doing 2v1 as a monk. I'm watching others. It seems Windwalker monks are very rare. I played 156 games in the past few days and I only saw another windwalker monk once. Did I simply choose the wrong class? I hear some classes just don't work in Arena right now.

    I did get gladius and that other addon that's hard to spell you mentioned. The guy carrying me for the first time told me to use them and just keep practicing. I am also learning to manage my own cooldowns, like touch of karma using at start is no use. I'm now using it at lower health when being pounded upon hard. I shall start trying to learn buff icons. Thank you! I do find frost mages sure can keep me rooted nearly the whole match, so being melee puts me at a disadvantage.

    So in theory keep practicing and just keep learning?
    Some classes are weak in certain areas. Monks are generally considered one of the weaker classes, but I honestly think they're pretty good in 2v2. They are definitely a rare class, and most of the ones you run into are healers, but I don't think it's because they're non-viable.

    And yes, you generally want to use your ccs and defensive cooldowns against damage cooldowns. As an example, you could paralyze a mage as soon as he launches a frozen orb to give you time to escape before you're deeped. Ideally you'd aim to land it at the exact same time he hits you with deep freeze, but it's tough to time that reliably. Karma is really your lifeline in arena, as you're pretty vulnerable when it's on cooldown so using it well is very important.

    And just so you know, playing without a healer kind of sucks in certain situations. 2v2 is generally more fun as double dps, but healers have the ability to dispel a lot of cc from you. When you're getting dispelled, I don't think even a mage can get away from a monk.

    But yeah, just keep at it and you'll keep getting better. Try out lots of partners and you'll find the good ones may give you advice and strategies. Having this guy carry you was a good start since he's probably pretty knowledgeable about the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashkir View Post
    If I have to become a jerk to play this game, then I won't enjoy this game. I cannot fathom calling someone that and I find it personally offensive. . It saddens me a lot of the great players are jerks and refuse to help. If I can never be a good player because I'm nice, then I don't want to be in that club. I spent my life in a different pattern, different things, inside of a hospital. I'm a docile person online and in the real world.
    This game is only what you make of it. A lot of people take the upper levels of competition way too seriously and it's not necessary to be any part of it. The scenario where it might come up is one where you've already become extremely good at this game and can't find anyone near your skill level to play with. If you're interested in actually pursuing end-season rewards at that point, you'll likely have to search through a lot of players like Ryan described. If you don't care about having the very best partners that are willing to play with you, there are plenty of nice people out there.
    Last edited by nerdjames; 2013-12-18 at 07:11 PM.

  9. #9
    Thanks nerdjames. I should try it with a healer to see. I do not care about the ratings. While they're nice, I just think they're fun. ^_^. It seems most I run into care about ratings and a lot of them refuse to work with anyone lower then 1700 for example unless you pay. I'm going to start looking for others, hopefully I'll find one. Sadly, I generally avoid trade chat. So it should be an interesting task at my hand!

    What are end season rewards anyway?

    I just thought arenas were fun. That's all I care about, having fun. I don't care about being #1 with the last 2200 achievement.
    Hi! I play a hunter. .

  10. #10
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashkir View Post
    If I have to become a jerk to play this game, then I won't enjoy this game. I cannot fathom calling someone that and I find it personally offensive. . It saddens me a lot of the great players are jerks and refuse to help. If I can never be a good player because I'm nice, then I don't want to be in that club. I spent my life in a different pattern, different things, inside of a hospital. I'm a docile person online and in the real world.
    The problem is that words like "nice", "friendly" ,"fun" is a form of weakness to these form of people. I'm literally not trying to be an asshole, but I'm just letting you know how it is in any competitive environment. You can still find and play with people that are like you, but don't expect to get "good" or high ratings because your kind of mentality just won't cut it at those levels. At those levels, you literally have to sell your soul to the game and get to know all of those kind of people you won't like. They run the game and they don't want what they call "bitches and scrubs."

    When I used to try and get good at this game (back in LK) I did everything I described in my post. And it worked to an extent because individually I wasn't a good player, but I was able to play with the right people and absorb myself in that kind of atmosphere. The only difference between me and those people I played with is that I knew what I was actually doing while they were just being their mindless selves.

    These people would actually get mad when they would lose or when someone would talk shit to them, where as I would just pretend to be mad, because again, I had to "fit in" with their kind of intellectual level. There's no room for actual polite and "respectful" discussions. I would purposely talk shit with the intent just to get people angry (I guess I was a troll) only to receive hate mail and stupid people stalking me every time I logged online just to talk shit to me. I loved it because it was literally power you had over dumb people. However, it's all fun and games until these people get your IP and start fucking with your real life.

    That's why I stopped and don't talk to people in this game ever again because I'm afraid that I'll get myself back into those old habits.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashkir View Post
    Thanks nerdjames. I should try it with a healer to see. I do not care about the ratings. While they're nice, I just think they're fun. ^_^. It seems most I run into care about ratings and a lot of them refuse to work with anyone lower then 1700 for example unless you pay. I'm going to start looking for others, hopefully I'll find one. Sadly, I generally avoid trade chat. So it should be an interesting task at my hand!

    What are end season rewards anyway?

    I just thought arenas were fun. That's all I care about, having fun. I don't care about being #1 with the last 2200 achievement.
    I like your attitude. I'd dust off my druid and play with you myself if you weren't horde.

    Arena rewards are just temporary titles for the most part. 2v2 hasn't awarded anything since season 6, but if you place in the top 35% of another bracket you'll get a title that lasts through the next season. At the top 0.5% you also get a mount that's specific to that season, and at the top 0.1% you get a permanent title. There are also cosmetic enchants, a recoloured armour set, and a cloak and tabard you can purchase but they all have very very high rating requirements.

  12. #12
    You do not have to be a jerk to get good. I feel like he's making a point but im not sure. Go watch a guy like Vanguards stream...that kid is really laid back and nice, but he's confident and competitive. Just dont give up and always take advice from valid sources. I personally find that watching youtube videos and Twitch.tv streamerst he best way to learn. Its really fun to learn new tricks and counters to other classes.

  13. #13
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryTACP View Post
    You do not have to be a jerk to get good. I feel like he's making a point but im not sure. Go watch a guy like Vanguards stream...that kid is really laid back and nice, but he's confident and competitive. Just dont give up and always take advice from valid sources. I personally find that watching youtube videos and Twitch.tv streamerst he best way to learn. Its really fun to learn new tricks and counters to other classes.
    Players like Vanguards have sold their soul to the twitch audience, meaning they have to put on a show that they're normal good people. When you're a twitch hero, you have to appeal to the lesser minds by acting all humble and sportsman like. Those twitch heroes for the most part are the type that are very conceited. Their just as elitist as your shit talker, but they keep it to themselves and talk amongst themselves with their buddies on how awesome they are. You just don't see it because they don't want you to see it.

    There was this Rogue streamer (forgot his name) that used to talk shit in cataclysm and people hated him. He would stream his games, talk shit to his team mates, talk shit to veteran players and how they were "Washed up scrubs" and was arrogant about his play style. He didn't care for titles, didn't give a shit about the viewers, just wanted to beat people. I liked watching his stream just to see the mindless idiots hate on his pride. And the guy literally was a good player back then but his shit talk gave him a "bad reputation" among the masses. The average person does not like people they know who are superior to them and brag about it.

    This applies to athletes on tv as well. Most athletes on camera will say how much respect they have for their opponent but meanwhile in their head they want to end their opponent for good.

    Have you ever watched boxing? Those boxers literally spend months of training on how they're going to beat the shit their opponent. Sure after the match is over, they'll hug and shake hands, but the loser will take it hard knowing that the other man is better despite all of his training. It really mentally fucks you up.

  14. #14
    I disagree. There are too many assumptions in your post. You can't say that every top end pvper (athlete) is a pompous jerk....and what gives you the right to say that being humble and sportsman like is of a lesser mind? Actually, no need to answer that. Im going to treat you like the troll you're hopefully being.

  15. #15
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryTACP View Post
    I disagree. There are too many assumptions in your post. You can't say that every top end pvper (athlete) is a pompous jerk....and what gives you the right to say that being humble and sportsman like is of a lesser mind? Actually, no need to answer that. Im going to treat you like the troll you're hopefully being.
    I'm not being a troll. You're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. Not every athlete or anyone in higher positions of power is what I claim they are.

    My main point is that the average idiot that has no skills in anything (me and you) will always like and support the so called "nice" athletes that portray themselves on camera to be "respectful" and "sportsman" like. But in the actual field of male competitiveness between two opponents, you cannot have nice people because competition is naturally fierce and without mercy. In other words, the bestial nature of competition will turn you into a wild animal without you even realizing. You really can't understand this until you've been in such a situation.

    The people above us do not think in simple terms like we do. To them, everything is about surpassing and owning people through speech, finances and primitive power. That is why they're in the positions that they own and why we're at the bottom end of the ladder. We basically feed off of them and they supply us with "information" that they themselves know is useless but its a good tool to keep us sated and in our place. They'll give us bits and pieces of ideas but never their full arsenal or else they wouldn't be the gatekeepers of knowledge.

    Your twitch heroes, youtube heroes hell even chess grandmasters will always feed you as little as good information as possible to keep you wanting more but never enough to actually make you move on. They'll never give you their little tricks that actually work. That is why every time I see these "guide threads" I always tell people to individually get better by using your actual brain and not someone else's. Sitting around and watching twitch heroes religiously while giving them free handouts only puts you in the "bitch" seat. You won't improve because everything you know is only what they tell you is good.

    A good question you need to ask yourself is this. How do you think those twitch heroes at the top ratings improve if there's no one above them? They improve because they figure things out on their own and use their full power as an individual to improve. That is why they're in the spot that they're in and everyone else is below them.

  16. #16
    First off...I wanna say I also love your attitude. It's rare you find people with this sort of attitude lol. But OT getting those add ons will be a big help. And also the biggest thing is knowing other classes and their abilities. This will help you know what to use and when. I.e. Defensive CDs or burst CDs. But I would write more brut gotta head out. Keep it up and have fun. Hope to see ya out there

  17. #17
    Field Marshal Shabutie's Avatar
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    Well, in regards to helping you out here, your gear isn't the best, but it's not terrible. Enchants do go a long way sadly, when everyone is geared to the teeth. You want to reforge to as much crit as possible, (or haste if you use the chi brew talent). Speaking of talents, you cannot take chi burst. It (while looking cool) is terrible. Chi Wave is 100% must, there is no room for choice in that tier. You should also chose between ascension & chi brew. Most people seem to run chi brew these days, because it's off global, and you can use it to get more stacks. You should prob drop fists of fury glyph for the paralysis one, or if you vs 2 wizards, the sparring one. WW does work bets with a healer, and healer/dps comps are superior to almost every double dps, other than mage/rogue, ret/hunter, boomkin/x. So don't expect a flawless record as double dps. I'd recommend a mage/hunter as your best other dps partner. At the start, just play safe, still you get 10 brew stacks, then you want to land your best cc chain when you pop tigereye, rising sun then fists. I find when I played my WW, i can destroy resto druids. 130k Rising sun kicks, and fists can crit for 80k a tick with cds. Hope that helps.

  18. #18
    I think you got the right attitude Ashkir.

    I used to care about rating, not that I was ever very good at it, but I used to group only with ppl that only cared about that and most of them weren't very nice, to not use another word...

    I started doing arenas again these last weeks with my alt druid and my friend that recently came back to the game, and we decided to just have fun and not care about anything else, both undergeared, and playing at very low mmr, and I never had more fun in arenas than right now, laughing during all matches. I guess thats what I ever wanted from this game, and not a mmr race.

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