WoW PVP Unsalvageable after 5.4?

[Anzen]

I just don't know why Blizzard wait literally months until they apply hotfixes etc.

Warriors are clearly over the top at the moment, whether it be from looking at representation, the feedback from the consumer-base or literally having played an arena themselves.

Applying something like:

"Mass Spell Reflect now replaces Spell Reflect"
"Disrupting Shout now has a 3 minute cooldown (was 40 seconds)"
"Warrior bleeds nerfed by X%" - to tune damage.
"Bladestorm & Bloodbath now trigger a 6 second shared cooldown when used" - not usable together.

Would fix arena so quickly - Realize next week that no-one plays a warrior anymore? - make a couple more changes, test the water.

I don't mind that sometimes changes make classes a lot more overpowered than Blizzard originally intended, but do we really need to leave it like that for an entire season, despite it being plain for everyone to see.

Elemental Shamans one-shotting people for months without a fix as an obvious example.

[Itisamuh]

I don't know why you'd narrow it down to this patch. It's been garbage all expansion. I think it's gotten worse every single expansion.

[Adumbratus]

When MoP first came out, it was Holy Pallys being crazy like to old shockadins. They fixed that pretty quickly. Right now there's a top class/spec (Arms War) and a "what the hell am I doing in here" class/spec (Destro Lock) in arenas, and a top class/spec (Arms War) and the rest who desperately try to contain that class/spec.

[maulgryve]

I highly doubt your friends have been playing since vanilla and are choosing 5.4 to quit on. No, things are not that bad. This patch is not that different from any other patch to be honest. Each class every expansion has abilities gained and taken away. There have been many times that I get ability X taken away so now I have to use ability Y. I will continue to play, so my answer is no. This game has not went to far that it can't recover. And the word recover.... I don't feel like pvp is actually in a slump.

Except world pvp. I think it is stupid that best pvp gear cant kill best pve gear.

[Schwert]

Blizzard really needs to figure out what their priority is in PvP;
They say they want it to be a fun experience for everybody and it seems because of that they like random BG's and wPvP to be the focus.
Big sprawling battles where anybody can pick up a sword and join the fray of all experience levels...

Yet things like Trial of the Gladiator state they want to focus on the .5% and make things for the best of the best.
They want people to climb ladders for rewards and hit ratings and the like.

There's nothing wrong with having a game being slightly imbalanced when they have it open to everybody. But the game is stupidly imbalanced and they're now trying to cater to a miniscule amount of players.
You can't please everybody - And trying to just leads to the situation PvP is in now.

They just need to go back to Vanilla style systems if they're not going to bother with class balance.
Ladders don't work in games not designed for them and WoW wasn't.

No idea why they keep shoving them down everybody's throat when wPvP and epic battles should be the focus. Game went to crap the moment they stepped away from that from what I see people saying.

[Raugnaut]

Blizzard really needs to figure out what their priority is in PvP;
They say they want it to be a fun experience for everybody and it seems because of that they like random BG's and wPvP to be the focus.
Big sprawling battles where anybody can pick up a sword and join the fray of all experience levels...

Yet things like Trial of the Gladiator state they want to focus on the .5% and make things for the best of the best.
They want people to climb ladders for rewards and hit ratings and the like.

There's nothing wrong with having a game being slightly imbalanced when they have it open to everybody. But the game is stupidly imbalanced and they're now trying to cater to a miniscule amount of players.
You can't please everybody - And trying to just leads to the situation PvP is in now.

They just need to go back to Vanilla style systems if they're not going to bother with class balance.
Ladders don't work in games not designed for them and WoW wasn't.

No idea why they keep shoving them down everybody's throat when wPvP and epic battles should be the focus. Game went to crap the moment they stepped away from that from what I see people saying.

Yet in WoD they also have Atran, which seems to be combing both wPvP and epic battles. Don't be focusing on one thing.

As for OP, I don't think it is unsalvageable. ATM, you have 2 problems- too many classes with a combination of burst CDs, and huge amounts of CCs. Of course, the PvE "balancing" interfering with PvP sucks a bit- BS+BB in arena, for instance. Granted, it's "counterable" by running away with a speed boost (My comp has stampeding roar", but if we fail to counter it for whatever reason, it will take BOTH of us down by 50%, without poping defensive CDs. And since it has only a 1 min CD, well, its really damned OP. Combine that huge burst with warriors extreme mobility (They can break out of roots once per 30 seconds, fears once per 30 seconds, can reflect most CCs once per 25 seconds, can talent for an extra reflect once per minute that affects all partners, bladestorm breaks all CCs once per minute, can rapidly charge to the opponent more often then nearly all opponents can escape, can either AoE snare, get a second interupt, or root targets, ect, ect).

But yea, atm, for PvP, its too much CC combined with too much burst, and possibly too much mobility. Blizzard has stated that they plan to tone down both CC AND burst in WoD, so we just have to wait and see.

[Sithalos]

WoW pvp has never been good. Not sure what you're talking about.

[Wow]

Blizzard has stated that they plan to tone down both CC AND burst in WoD, so we just have to wait and see.

They said the same thing at the end of cata look how that turned out...

[Marahdeka]

FOTM seems more like a bussiness concept than laziness on toning down a particular class/spec. And as you can see even in this very thread, cohortes of people go for it.

[Deleted]

5.4 > 5.0

That said, the only thing I cant grasp anymore is the cc and class design. Not gonna lie, the balance in this patch is ok. Not S7 good, but ok. On the other hand its the class designs and all the shit new cc/talents bring the game un-enjoyable for me. I don't have a problem with base res and dampening since I only do rated 3s.

5.4 is as best as it goes for now. I doubt they will fix anything due to PvE bs and we will not see anything as good as S7.

[Blizzle]

nothing will ever be balanced, just stick with whats fun and ignore the haters:P

[PrairieChicken]

PVP will continue to suck until the fully seperate it from PvE (which devs refuse to do for some reason)

[crakerjack]

PvP is shit because no one at blizzard knows what they're doing and it's pretty obvious that they favor PvE over PvP. Yes it's true that the game is more balanced now than it has ever been, but at a VERY GREAT cost. Welcome to WoW PvP where there is no class diversity and every comp is pretty much ran the same way... CC healer, go for kill on 2nd dps, didn't work... lets try it on healer, root/cc the dps to buy our healer time, score kill, win. Before, certain comps would do split strategies or they would have some unique strat that only worked for that specific comp... now every comp is the same and is pretty much ran the same way. PvP is absolute shit, especially when resil is a base stat. Now PvPers are stuck with gear that's worse than PvE gear in duels and any place in world PvP... what's the point of adding a stat to a game if it doesn't work outside of any PvP instance? Blizzard is incredibly stupid... and it's been shown back in cata when they were shutting down threads about the MMR glitching. Not only did blizzard allow this issue to carry on through a whole season and more, but they refused to find a way to fix it other than reseting the ladders completely, screwing over hardworking people when it would be much easier to see who which teams are at 2800 rating but have only faced 1300 rated teams. These are just a fraction of all the issues PvP has and based on blizzards actions, I withdrew from the game and refuse to give those asshats any more of my money.

[Deleted]

It depends on what salvaging means to you.

Giving every spec even more funny burst heal/dps and instant cc to participate in the mess that is MoP PvP, achieving some balance in class participation? - Sure! The more, the merrier!

Axing a considerable amount of abilities added since MoP to improve class diversity and the PvP metagame? - Meh, not fun. The players and shareholders won't like it.

I don't think they will magically come to their senses with WoD.

[Deleted]

WoW pvp has never been good. Not sure what you're talking about.

It was fucking great in Tbc where every class didn't have a ton of CC, mobility, instant burst and damage cooldowns. Wrath was great as well, but imo DK's, PvE gear, too high burst damage, too many new abilities and the idea that every spec should be viable made it gradually worse.

The step between Wotlk and Cataclysm was bad, but oh boy the step between Cataclysm and MoP was extremely terrible because of the new talents.

[Kildragon]

As good as MoP is, the PvP is really bad. 5.4 isn't as bad as 5.0, but just like, ick.

To say nothing of the fact that pvp gear is undesirable unless you want to battleground a lot. It's basically like this:


If you want to BG, RBG, or arena, you need PvP gear.
If you need PvP gear, you need to RBG and arena.
-> You'd be better off on tournament realm!


This is important, because the pvp gear is so awful that there's four whole tiers of it better in pve, all of which launched this patch. If you world pvp with it, there's 2-3 tiers better than it, depending on your class and priority. So, there's virtually no gearing draw, and you still have to grind the gear up, and if you were interested in doing that it isn't for pve or world pvp, it's solely for ranking, and if THAT is what you want -> tournament realm.


Pretty disturbing tbh. You would think they wouldn't have such a high opinion of the LFR and flex pve gear, or any gear, given how rapidly they wipe gear.

You're not making any sense. Gear in any kind of PvP environment is scaled down to 496 iLvl unless you have the 522 gear which is never scaled down. Literally the only place where PvE gear is superior is in WPvP. If you try to do arenas in full Heroic SOO gear, you will lose to equally skilled teams because your gear is quite simply scaled to a far lower iLvl than actual PvP gear. Stop your QQ and misinforming of others.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard really needs to figure out what their priority is in PvP;
They say they want it to be a fun experience for everybody and it seems because of that they like random BG's and wPvP to be the focus.
Big sprawling battles where anybody can pick up a sword and join the fray of all experience levels...

Yet things like Trial of the Gladiator state they want to focus on the .5% and make things for the best of the best.
They want people to climb ladders for rewards and hit ratings and the like.

There's nothing wrong with having a game being slightly imbalanced when they have it open to everybody. But the game is stupidly imbalanced and they're now trying to cater to a miniscule amount of players.
You can't please everybody - And trying to just leads to the situation PvP is in now.

They just need to go back to Vanilla style systems if they're not going to bother with class balance.
Ladders don't work in games not designed for them and WoW wasn't.

No idea why they keep shoving them down everybody's throat when wPvP and epic battles should be the focus. Game went to crap the moment they stepped away from that from what I see people saying.

I think you're the only person I have ever seen make that statement and your thinking is a bit whack. WPvP is literally impossible to balance since there is no regulation on it. Want to gank 3 questers with a group of 10? Go for it. It's impossible to balance and will never be balanced. You're somehow thinking that by making a world PvP zone, they are saying we want to only focus on world PvP. That makes 0 sense, especially since WPvP requires 0 effort to balance. They never mentioned that they want random BGs and WPvP to be the focus, they simply like having them as options for people to enjoy PvP.

Trial of the Gladiator is quite amazing for those of us who want to play in a rated environment in which gear doesn't play a factor, and WPvP and TotG are NOT mutually exclusive.

The game is actually not stupidly imbalanced, quite on the contrary there are really only a few classes that are OP. Thinking back to the WotLK days that people love to remember so fondly; RLS, MLD, RMP, LSD and TSG essentially dominated the ladders, yet few people chose to remember those things.

Going back to the vanilla style system without BGs, RBGs, or arenas would be PvP suicide and makes no sense. Nobody loves WPvP anymore, people just love to remember the fun they had in Tarren Mill back when that was the only place for PvP since BGs didn't exist.

You seem to think that anybody besides you has said that the game went to crap when Blizz moved on from the vanilla style model of only WPvP. You couldn't be more wrong. People loved the TBC and WotLK eras of WoW PvP.

[Starsinn]

Primary stats should give 0 damage increase vs player targets. They should only have an effect vs npcs.

This is how pvp power works. Why not for primary stats?

This would make pvp gear superior to pve gear in every pvp situation, world or instanced, regardless of ilvl and effectively separates pve and pvp without having to change every single spell and ability for each class and spec.

[Schwert]

Trial of the Gladiator is quite amazing for those of us who want to play in a rated environment in which gear doesn't play a factor, and WPvP and TotG are NOT mutually exclusive.

The game is actually not stupidly imbalanced, quite on the contrary there are really only a few classes that are OP. Thinking back to the WotLK days that people love to remember so fondly; RLS, MLD, RMP, LSD and TSG essentially dominated the ladders, yet few people chose to remember those things.

Going back to the vanilla style system without BGs, RBGs, or arenas would be PvP suicide and makes no sense. Nobody loves WPvP anymore, people just love to remember the fun they had in Tarren Mill back when that was the only place for PvP since BGs didn't exist.

You seem to think that anybody besides you has said that the game went to crap when Blizz moved on from the vanilla style model of only WPvP. You couldn't be more wrong. People loved the TBC and WotLK eras of WoW PvP.

Nobody's really complained about the gear portion of TotG but rather the fact it's now almost impossible for anybody who has a life to push for rewards.
I work night shifts. Unless I actually take nights off for a video game I will never get my T2 set again. Ever.
You know how stupid that is?

They can't balance arenas and they haven't dealt with cheaters despite the fact that it's stupidly easy to detect them. They're just too lazy to do it.
(IP/Keybindings/Sudden Rating Boosts being the 3 main tip ooffs.)

wPvP is very much so a portion of the game and does deserve mention.
They're putting one zone in and it's impossible to tell if it'll work or not. I enjoy Timeless isle but the vast majority apparently hates it.

By "Vanilla" style I mean stop focusing entirely on ladders and ratings for absolutely every reward ever. Not get rid of them entirely.
And yes - A lot of people think arenas are absolutely garbage right now. TBC and S7 appear to be the only times people thought it was good according to these forums too. Looking at DK videos from WoTLK; I don't count that as balance either.

Arenas have always been broken and they keep focusing on it being the end all.

Only reason I'm even bothering with this garbage right now is for the T2 set and a chance at the drake.
Most R1 Gladiators I know haven't played seriously since Cataclysm and I have Gladiator level friends who won't even bother playing the game at all because it's so imbalanced and it's just too much work for the stuff they get.
I have to beg one of my best friends to just log in to do battlegrounds at this point.

The only way to fix this mess is to completely revamp classes and remove most of the homogenization.
Stop focusing on pleasing a portion of the playerbase that barely makes up a decent number. (TotG)
Stop focusing on just one or two portions of PvP as a whole and give people more to do. (PvP zone/Timeless Isle is a step in teh right direction)
Stop locking every reward to 2k+ Players. (100 3v3 wins was a start but a bit too easy imo.)

This is an MMORPG and it's starting to feel like they're trying to make the PvP in this game like a MoBA without even looking at what makes the popular "PvP" styled games so successful.

They "can't" separate it from PvE but they can sure as hell look back on the things that did work and use them.
And you know; Add more.

[Fahrenheit]

I'm of the opinion that if you've not gotten in MoP PvP now, you might as well stay away until we're all freshly level 100 a week or two from WoD going live. Everyone will be in the same blue quality gear at that point and we'll all be learning all the changes and nuances of WoD PvP.

Just save yourself the trouble of attempting to gear up at this stage of the game and take a break from PvP or WoW in general if you care to. If you ever wanted to take a break from WoW and invest time in other games or pursuits, now's the time to do it, in the post final raid/pre new expansion lull.

[Borfl]

It's been in the shitter since 3.3.2

Blizzard half-asses balance and fucks it up for both PvE and especially PvP.

It's not worth the effort to "get good" anymore when class/comp largely determines the victor.