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  1. #21
    Banned MrChop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meteo View Post
    Immerseus: Adds
    Protectors: 2-3 Bosses, 2 Add phases
    Norushen: Adds
    Sha: Adds
    Galakras: THE add fight this tier
    Juggernaut: No reason
    Shamans: Depends on tactics. If you split them there's no reason to go BS
    Nazgrim: Adds
    Malkorok: Blobb
    Spoils: Adds
    Thok: Bats, Jailer & Boss
    Siegecrafter: Mines. If you play without mines it depends on what you are doing.
    Klaxxi: DR diminishing returns but people will cry
    Garrosh: Haven't been there yet but adds usually aren't the problem as far as I've heard

    I completely understand if someone prefers BS this tier. It can be used on so many fights.
    You really wanna Bladestorm the adds on Norushen? Why?
    Well normally people split on Shamans on HC
    Nazgrim, how often is the adds stacked up?...
    Malkorok, just DR and keep your normal rotation up, no need to use a Bladestorm for 1 target.
    Thok, so now you are talking about thrash?.. Otherwise it's a straight up singletarget fight again.
    Ranged should do the mines, you should be doing either assembly or 24/7 boss.
    Klaxxy, well it's cheesy to use bladestorm on Klaxxi, might as well just use Dragonroar for it.
    Garrosh is a fight where Bladestorm us usable several places, not just adds, but also MC and desecrated weapons

    I really don't see why you would use Bladestorm on any fight where it's a straight up single target fight. You would need at least more then 3 target through out most of the fight for it to be an increase compared to Dragonroar.

    Best regards
    Chop

  2. #22
    Bladestorm is the default talent choice this tier. As Meteo said, it's optimal to use bladestorm on the following bosses:
    Immerseus: Thanks to the Adds.
    Protectors: 3bosses
    Norushen: Adds
    Sha of Pride: Adds, once again.
    Galakras, nothing but adds
    Iron Juggernaut: Debate-able*
    Shamans: 2dogs+2bosses
    Nazgrim: Even if you ignore the adds that are with him on the pull, Bladestorm is best if you can get even one of your bladestorms to hit more than one target.
    Malkorok: Adds
    Spoils: Nothing but adds
    Thok: Bats+kiting**
    Siegecrafter: Depends on tactic. Lot's of mines=Bladestorm, few mines=Whatever your raid needs.
    Klaxxi: Bladestorm (Dragon Roar has diminishing returns the more targets it hits)
    Garrosh: Bladestorm Haven.

    *On Iron Juggernaut Bladestorm is a safe option due to two reasons. First off, If you DR and you hit one of the mines, you'll lose a lot of damage on the boss. Secondly, If you're channeling Bladestorm when the Knock back hits you'll just stay where you are.

    **On Thok, you'll want to take Bladestorm for the AoE on the Bats, but Bladestorm has a second useful feat that you can use. Bladestorm has a bigger AoE effect than your normal melee swing range, so if Thok gets out of range of your melee swings, your Bladestorm can still hit him for a while.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by lort1001 View Post
    You really wanna Bladestorm the adds on Norushen? Why?
    Well normally people split on Shamans on HC
    Nazgrim, how often is the adds stacked up?...
    Malkorok, just DR and keep your normal rotation up, no need to use a Bladestorm for 1 target.
    Thok, so now you are talking about thrash?.. Otherwise it's a straight up singletarget fight again.
    Ranged should do the mines, you should be doing either assembly or 24/7 boss.
    Klaxxy, well it's cheesy to use bladestorm on Klaxxi, might as well just use Dragonroar for it.
    Garrosh is a fight where Bladestorm us usable several places, not just adds, but also MC and desecrated weapons

    I really don't see why you would use Bladestorm on any fight where it's a straight up single target fight. You would need at least more then 3 target through out most of the fight for it to be an increase compared to Dragonroar.

    Best regards
    Chop
    Meteo and Warriorsarri already covered it but...

    Norushen - Of course you want to Bladestorm the adds; they need to die and they're an important mechanic of the encounter. BS is ideal for them unless your guild uses a strat where the adds are never clumped. Chances are though, BS is still probably better since you're very likely going to have enough adds in range to make BS preferable.

    Shaman - They typically don't split them until the dogs are dead (or near to) and a Reckstorm at the start with all cd's and procs lined up is pretty huge. For any single-target portion of the fight Bladestorm is still acceptable. Dragon Roar is absolutely a big contender on this fight, no denying, and anyone progressing on the boss will probably be better served with DR.

    Nazgrim - Entirely depends on strategy of course. If the adds are never anywhere together you'll certainly get more out of DR. For those who do get adds in proximity to each other, BS is just as good. The pudding goes to those who get to Reck-storm on the pull with all the initial adds up

    Malkorok - BS lines up almost perfectly (assuming Evil Eye) with every other set of adds. If you're using a strat where they're not pulled to melee, or where they die before they get there of course DR will be better. Most strats I've seen however typically try to get the adds to the boss so they're not creating difficult or impossible situations for the ranged.

    Thok - I'm absolutely talking about the bats, which are a very significant mechanic on Heroic. Significant enough that they pretty much *have* to die ASAP and it's enough to warrant using BS for. Also, as Warriorsarri noted - BS has a slightly larger radius allowing you to potentially keep tagging Thok while he's running by.

    Siegcrafter - As I originally stated; DR is, at least in my case, the default choice since I'm on conveyor duty. I already covered this...

    Paragons - It's not cheese at all. If you don't understand the diminishing returns on DR, then one might consider it as cheese. If your guild uses a strat (that I have yet to see) where DR's won't clip multiple targets, then by all means, use DR.

    Garrosh - Already covered really...BS is a big deal for every phase other than P4. Just be sure you're not abusing BS damage in P1 in lieu of pushing Garrosh (this holds equally true for *EVERYONE* aoeing in P1, not just Warriors). BS on adds in P1, Embodied Fear and Doubt in the intermissions and on MC'd people.
    Last edited by Frayed; 2013-12-10 at 02:30 PM.

  4. #24
    Banned MrChop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frayed View Post
    Meteo and Warriorsarri already covered it but...

    Norushen - Of course you want to Bladestorm the adds; they need to die and they're an important mechanic of the encounter. BS is ideal for them unless your guild uses a strat where the adds are never clumped. Chances are though, BS is still probably better since you're very likely going to have enough adds in range to make BS preferable.

    Shaman - They typically don't split them until the dogs are dead (or near to) and a Reckstorm at the start with all cd's and procs lined up is pretty huge. For any single-target portion of the fight Bladestorm is still acceptable. Dragon Roar is absolutely a big contender on this fight, no denying, and anyone progressing on the boss will probably be better served with DR.

    Nazgrim - Entirely depends on strategy of course. If the adds are never anywhere together you'll certainly get more out of DR. For those who do get adds in proximity to each other, BS is just as good. The pudding goes to those who get to Reck-storm on the pull with all the initial adds up

    Malkorok - BS lines up almost perfectly (assuming Evil Eye) with every other set of adds. If you're using a strat where they're not pulled to melee, or where they die before they get there of course DR will be better. Most strats I've seen however typically try to get the adds to the boss so they're not creating difficult or impossible situations for the ranged.

    Thok - I'm absolutely talking about the bats, which are a very significant mechanic on Heroic. Significant enough that they pretty much *have* to die ASAP and it's enough to warrant using BS for. Also, as Warriorsarri noted - BS has a slightly larger radius allowing you to potentially keep tagging Thok while he's running by.

    Siegcrafter - As I originally stated; DR is, at least in my case, the default choice since I'm on conveyor duty. I already covered this...

    Paragons - It's not cheese at all. If you don't understand the diminishing returns on DR, then one might consider it as cheese. If your guild uses a strat (that I have yet to see) where DR's won't clip multiple targets, then by all means, use DR.

    Garrosh - Already covered really...BS is a big deal for every phase other than P4. Just be sure you're not abusing BS damage in P1 in lieu of pushing Garrosh (this holds equally true for *EVERYONE* aoeing in P1, not just Warriors). BS on adds in P1, Embodied Fear and Doubt in the intermissions and on MC'd people.
    Alright, i take it back... Norushen i'm still baffled, i've never seen a reason to wanna Bladestorm the adds, ever!

    Shamans i've always tanked it on HC, but yea, the first 30% they are together. So that i take back

    Nazgrim, well yea my guild never have them together, so DR is better for my guilds tactic, but yea, i see Bladestorm might be used if they could be stacked

    Malkorok, true, my guild have tanks take it to melee, and have ranged switch mainly, but will it overall be better then DR during the entire fight? I mean like just in general over the fact that i will be doing mainly singel target?

    Have not yet been on Thok and have completely forgot about that, i take it back!

    Siegecrafter i think is a tactic and guildsetup thing mainly

    But will the damage then be higher with Bladestorm over Dragonroar on the current target you are killing?, because the other Paragons will heal back up no matter how much damage i do to them? I will defiantly try it tonight

    Garrosh is like an AoE Feast for us if used correctly

    Appreciate for the answers, i must admit i thought i was right, but from your guys explanations i gotta say i was very wrong.

    Best regards
    Chop

  5. #25
    No problems! I'm always glad to help / tell people they're wrong.

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lort1001 View Post
    Are you playing with Bladestorm for all HC fights unless it's Juggernaut or Siegecrafter?, How about Paragons, Malkorok, Norushen, Shamans, Nazgrim, Siegecrafter and Thok? How on earth will a weaker AoE attack that is channeled, be better then an instant attack like Dragonroar that do more singletarget damage be better on those fights?
    Only fights where Bladestorm is doable is this Heroic Tier is Immerseus, Protectors, Sha, Galakras, Spoils and Garrosh. I would like some explanation on that mate

    Best regards
    Chop
    1.) Both DR and BS are incredibly close ST damage. Around 500 DPS difference. If used correctly BS is actually a gain over not using it on fights with both ST and AoE, just use it after a BT but not during CS and not pushing CS back. So on a fight like Norshen where there are often 2+ targets to hit with BS, it is better.

    2.) DR suffers harsh diminishing returns. On any fight where damage on a secondary target is useless, BS is still better because DR will do 75% less damage to primary target if hitting 2 targets, and so will be LESS damage than BS.

    Just look at BS, it's 180% weapon damage per GCD, and you still AA. It's rage positive. Compared to RB which is 228% for 10 rage. Doesn't mean you should us BS during CDs or CS, you can't hit heroic strike/heroic leap for one and 2x RB 1x SB 1x BT 4x 1xHL is still a better CS rotation, but it's by no means a bad talent. Couple that with the fact that it removes snares and it can be even more useful. Even on 10m heroic malk where there is only 1 add, I use BS over DR. Not only is it more DPS, but it also allows me to re position faster, allowing me to get behind the boss quicker when he's about to slam.

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