LFR Idiocracy

[Sansnom]

Flex is cross realm and as of today will have a browser, so get rid of LFR.

Why are people like you so keen to get rid of LFR? What has it done to ruin YOUR gameplay? For some, it is the only kind of raiding they can do. And you want to deny them? For what? Is your ego that fragile?

The game is not just about you and what you consider to be fun and right.

[Deleted]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. And you are the average player, assuming this is true.

Yes, its right, with our ToT gear we were able to easily kill Garrosh 25 in the first week.

Above average on most of my alts (good on lock, boomkin, mage according to main raiders), average on some alts and specs. Mediocre healer...

Shadow Priest AoE rotation: Mind Sear. Not every class can have a one-button AoE rotation.

Don't forget T6 talents and multidot. Or Iron Juggernaut shadow is lackluster, but Halo can help out the healers.

- - - Updated - - -

Average? Whichever ranking I check out, SPriests get placed dead last, or around that area. :P

Single target yes, rock bottom. As soon as there is cleave, multidot, AoE and executes we go up though.

[Pull My Finger]

I think you meant to say "idiocy".

[Deleted]

The solution is to put a system where you perform better=more chance of loot(plus if you slack too much it goes down). average DPS will double with this patch.

However lfr defenders find it somehow insulting for a reason that I can't understand

Damage done is unfortunately not a good way to evaluate player performance since it leads to padding and AoE instead of burst on high prio targets. Voting system doesn't work either (we seen how it worked out in SWTOR's WZs) since people vote for their friends or the highest DPS.

- - - Updated - - -

granted anything can be abused, however there are already tools in place that would not take too smart of an algorithm to determine if someone is being a shit stick or honestly contributing to the effort.

for instance it is easy to count missed GCD. it is easy to detect bad rotations or choice of the wrong ability based on priority simply by some quick addition based on available GCD and the number of times each ability was performed during a pull. both of these things are already easily traceable. it would not be a huge step out of the stone age to track players based on the percentage of damage they do to boss/adds or certain phase of boss, nazgrim comes to mind. who stood in stuff is a no brainer. the combination of tracking these things can easily be developed into a performance rating system to help encourage players to be, well just that players and not just someone taking up space. tanks are even easier to track based on active mitigation use, simple boss positioning as well as proper use of their abilities by priority. with healers being the easiest to track by lost players that were not taking avoidable damage.

Activity could work in general, but not on Nazgrim for example. For healers, activity does not work at all. And for tanks it says very little.

[Waffen]

Why are people like you so keen to get rid of LFR? What has it done to ruin YOUR gameplay? For some, it is the only kind of raiding they can do. And you want to deny them? For what? Is your ego that fragile?

The game is not just about you and what you consider to be fun and right.

It has everything to do with their raiding ability. Its similar to buying a really nice car. Once you get it its nice to drive around town, showing it off to people, being snobby, and overall being a jerk because you have something that most people will never be able to afford to purchase. That was essentially what was Vanilla WoW. During Vanilla WoW most people never got to AQ40 let alone Naxxramas. Sitting afk in Ironforge above the Mailbox brought these types of players satisfaction because people would /w them showering them with attention, envy, jealousy, praise, etc. Any type of emotion you can think of. LFR takes that pride away because everyone can check out the content at at the bare minimum, get items that while aren't as good as the items raiders are getting, they can at least get the armor/weapon graphics they want to see.

It has nothing to do with LFR ruining the game or community. Its more/less the minority of the community being upset that everyone now has a pass to the VIP lounge rather than a select few.

[Ronduwil]

I think you meant to say "idiocy".

The post was a reference to the movie Idiocracy, in which the protagonist gets frozen Buck Rogers-style and finds themselves in a future where the idiots have outpopulated the smart people to such an extent that they've driven anyone with intelligence out of existence. Despite having below average intelligence the protagonist finds himself relegated to genius level status.

[Deleted]

Juggernaut requires constant movement. A class whose damage comes mostly from DoTs is going to have a large advantage over everyone else, especially when you're running with a fail tank who won't face the boss in a direction that allows the majority of the raid to put their backs against a wall and avoid the huge knockback.

Actually, Spriests are possibly the most hurt by movement out of all classes. All other ranged have plethora of abilities to fill in during the running, melee are inherently designed not to lose DPS by movement at all(Fists of Fury, hehehehehe. Blizz DOES have a sense of humour.). Spriests, however, have nothing. Unless it's the Halo cooldown/SW:P refresh window, they're screwed.

- - - Updated - - -

Single target yes, rock bottom. As soon as there is cleave, multidot, AoE and executes we go up though.

Yeap, to middle of the pack. I'd rather see it moved a tier up, middle of the pack single target and hovering around the top for multitarget, but one can dream. ^.^

[Deleted]

It has everything to do with their raiding ability. Its similar to buying a really nice car. Once you get it its nice to drive around town, showing it off to people, being snobby, and overall being a jerk because you have something that most people will never be able to afford to purchase. That was essentially what was Vanilla WoW. During Vanilla WoW most people never got to AQ40 let alone Naxxramas. Sitting afk in Ironforge above the Mailbox brought these types of players satisfaction because people would /w them showering them with attention, envy, jealousy, praise, etc. Any type of emotion you can think of. LFR takes that pride away because everyone can check out the content at at the bare minimum, get items that while aren't as good as the items raiders are getting, they can at least get the armor/weapon graphics they want to see.

It has nothing to do with LFR ruining the game or community. Its more/less the minority of the community being upset that everyone now has a pass to the VIP lounge rather than a select few.

Achievement date still shows your effort. Cutting Edge does too. And your heroic gear (especially in start) also shows off. I frankly don't really care about any of that. For me it is very simple: effort + skill = progress. Apart from 10 vs 25 there are some amazing guilds out there who barely raid but progress quite good on Heroic. There are also guilds who raid 20 hours a week and still can't get past Sha of Pride HC.

Was thinking a bit more on the whole issue and, well, what is really wrong with wiping in LFR? The difficulty is for those its designed to and wiping can happen on other difficulties too. Its the people who are not there for the challenge who complain. They are probably playing the wrong difficulty level.

[Seefer]

It has everything to do with their raiding ability. Its similar to buying a really nice car. Once you get it its nice to drive around town, showing it off to people, being snobby, and overall being a jerk because you have something that most people will never be able to afford to purchase. That was essentially what was Vanilla WoW. During Vanilla WoW most people never got to AQ40 let alone Naxxramas. Sitting afk in Ironforge above the Mailbox brought these types of players satisfaction because people would /w them showering them with attention, envy, jealousy, praise, etc. Any type of emotion you can think of. LFR takes that pride away because everyone can check out the content at at the bare minimum, get items that while aren't as good as the items raiders are getting, they can at least get the armor/weapon graphics they want to see.

It has nothing to do with LFR ruining the game or community. Its more/less the minority of the community being upset that everyone now has a pass to the VIP lounge rather than a select few.

Actually I could care less if people get gear, shit gets replaced quickly, what it DOES have to do with is the complete dumbing down of this game, the lack of any type of coordination or skill, the ignoring of mechanics, no need to interact with others unless it's to say "Vote kick" or flame them.

[Ronduwil]

Actually I could care less if people get gear, shit gets replaced quickly, what it DOES have to do with is the complete dumbing down of this game, the lack of any type of coordination or skill, the ignoring of mechanics, no need to interact with others unless it's to say "Vote kick" or flame them.

That's only in LFR and it's purely optional. You have three other levels of raiding to pick from, and they all require more coordination, skill, and adherence to mechanics than ever.

[MoanaLisa]

It has nothing to do with LFR ruining the game or community. Its more/less the minority of the community being upset that everyone now has a pass to the VIP lounge rather than a select few.

Yes, it really is a problem that a small percentage of the raiding population consider themselves VIP's. Those walls are coming down over time but a large portion of the complaining about Raid Finder from the beginning--even before it was launched--was this. And still is to some extent. "They don't deserve to see raids" is the most obvious form of it these days.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I could care less if people get gear, shit gets replaced quickly, what it DOES have to do with is the complete dumbing down of this game, the lack of any type of coordination or skill, the ignoring of mechanics, no need to interact with others unless it's to say "Vote kick" or flame them.

You write like you're forced to live in there. I'm pretty sure you don't so I don't really understand why you need to complain about it. You know, I hear that PVP BG's are a cesspool of bad behavior. I only rarely do PVP so I can't really know. I also don't complain about it. Your quote makes it sound as if normal/heroic raiding doesn't even exist.

[Deleted]

Actually I could care less if people get gear, shit gets replaced quickly, what it DOES have to do with is the complete dumbing down of this game, the lack of any type of coordination or skill, the ignoring of mechanics, no need to interact with others unless it's to say "Vote kick" or flame them.

Why the hell do you care so much about it? The tourist mode is tuned for players who do not care if they are good or not, and it is those players who should run it. It's like easy mode in a single player game - it is for those who do not care about challenge and just want to have fun.

You absolutely do not need it, especially now that Flex is in place. Normal and heroic mode raids are as hard as ever, they are anything but dumbed down. A raider does not need to step into LFR at any point, mix of normal and HC gear from previous tier is more than enough to clear normal mode of following one.

[Sansnom]

Actually I could care less if people get gear, shit gets replaced quickly, what it DOES have to do with is the complete dumbing down of this game, the lack of any type of coordination or skill, the ignoring of mechanics, no need to interact with others unless it's to say "Vote kick" or flame them.

Dumbing down the game? Does that mean you only do LFR then? Why do you care if other people do the easy mode? How has LFR dumb down Heroic raid? Come to think of it, has there been any major nerfs to Heroic raids like it was in WoTLK and Cata?

[Deleted]

I swear people make some of these stories up, or at least exaggerate them. I have 7 90s, 2 over 530 ilvl, only 2 lower then 502. I run at least 3 through lfr a week, and ive only once seen what you guys are talking about in terms of trolls, and it was a tank doing it, pulling the last boss in wing 1 ToT and running to a corner and dying, over and over and over. Sometimes ill see 2 or 3 really low dps, mostly in shit gear, sometimes in really good gear, but id say 90% of my lfrs finish with 0-1 wipe, its really not all that bad

Yea i have the same experience most trolling comes from the tanks not from the 10k dps in group.I almost never saw a dps to troll tanks except if they arent wiped several times already because tank/s really sux and atleast one of them deserve the complaints

[wych]

Actually I could care less if people get gear, shit gets replaced quickly, what it DOES have to do with is the complete dumbing down of this game, the lack of any type of coordination or skill, the ignoring of mechanics, no need to interact with others unless it's to say "Vote kick" or flame them.

You could just ignore LFR and run flex, normal or heroic? Whichever suits your needs better?

This whole "waah I don't want people to see MY content" attitude is disgusting.

[Iseeyou]

LFR is a disaster. Hope blizzard ll nerf it to the ground so WoW ll be a MMO again.

[wych]

LFR is a disaster. Hope blizzard ll nerf it to the ground so WoW ll be a MMO again.

How did LFR on itself "stop WoW being an MMO"? The word from Blizzard seem to suggest most players using it didn't previously raid, and now there's more people than ever doing raiding.

[Sarodan]

Every tank should boycott LFR until it gets removed altogether.

Lets start a movement called operation shieldwall ! TANKS FORM THE WALL !

[Normie]

Actually I could care less if people get gear, shit gets replaced quickly, what it DOES have to do with is the complete dumbing down of this game, the lack of any type of coordination or skill, the ignoring of mechanics, no need to interact with others unless it's to say "Vote kick" or flame them.

It seems to me that there is content in WoW that requires all the above. Are you unable to locate it?

[Deleted]

Yes, it really is a problem that a small percentage of the raiding population consider themselves VIP's. Those walls are coming down over time but a large portion of the complaining about Raid Finder from the beginning--even before it was launched--was this. And still is to some extent. "They don't deserve to see raids" is the most obvious form of it these days.

Rather, it is they don't deserve to see the raid in this easy difficulty. It is like saying Call of Duty should not have an easy mode, but only medium and hard. By then skipping the easy mode, the player will immediately have to start with medium difficulty which provides a more steep learning curve. However since the real challenge is the hard mode, the extra challenge on normal mode is fine. It also gives a different meaning to "I killed Garrosh".

Consider also that anyone can really get their legendary cape. If you can do it only on normal or heroic (or gasp, only heroic 25 man!!) it means the effort you had to put in getting the reagents is higher which means the reward is higher too. Right now, I have a very easy time getting the cloak on my alts in LFR, while my alts cannot get in Flex groups cause "too low ilvl" which means I have to resort to easy mode which does not drop much if anything, except for reagents.

There is something to say for both arguments and I suggest all those who have a firm viewpoint to try and understand the other PoV and think outside of the window.

And in the end this is the system we got now, the one of multiple difficulties for multiple playerbases. LFR is the easiest, and most of those who complain throughout this thread aren't the target base.