View Poll Results: should pre mop ore and herbs be removed?

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  • yes they would server no purpose

    33 11.54%
  • no i think they may still have their uses

    227 79.37%
  • unsure/indifferent

    26 9.09%
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    that would be 1 of the draw backs to removing them yes and it would just mean you'd wait till 85 to level your profs, yes its bad i know
    Then why do it in the first place? there's no benefit to this plan that outweighs the obvious downside.
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  2. #22
    err no

    What nutter actually levels BS using the "catch up" mechanic? its nearly 10k ore and would cost about 50k on my server, and the price would go up if you bought that much ore anyway.
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  3. #23
    What is the purpose of removing stuff from the game? Isn't it better to add alternatives instead (like catch up mechanics for those who can't be bothered to play the game)?

    I mean, really, how did this question even come to be: "[old materials] is it time to remove them?". Does their existence in the game bother anyone or something?

  4. #24
    No and never. The catch up mechanic is there for those that want it, but not mandatory, and from what I could tell, was much slower as well.

    However I do think crafting professions need to be overhauled somehow. They are an expensive or time consuming pain in the butt to get maxed.

  5. #25
    Epic! mrgummage's Avatar
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    I think they should remove them...

    ... and by them I mean all threads that start with a half question to bait people into opening them.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post

    However I do think crafting professions need to be overhauled somehow. They are an expensive or time consuming pain in the butt to get maxed.

    This is what I was talking about when I made the 2nd post in this thread. Catering to the lowest common denominator - People who don't want to put forth the effort/gold to level their professions. WoW has already been adjusted enough to maximize efficiency in the lowest amount of play time possible. Leave the Professions alone...they don't need to be tuned. They might very well be the one thing that actually gets people out of SW or Org and out into the world.

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interception View Post
    This is what I was talking about when I made the 2nd post in this thread. Catering to the lowest common denominator - People who don't want to put forth the effort/gold to level their professions. WoW has already been adjusted enough to maximize efficiency in the lowest amount of play time possible. Leave the Professions alone...they don't need to be tuned. They might very well be the one thing that actually gets people out of SW or Org and out into the world.
    I think there's a point to removing bloat. That said there should be some cost in terms of gold to level professions, not only that, but it puts some market value into low level mats. Which is good for levelers.

  8. #28
    No, Professions shouldn't not be removed.

  9. #29
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    I say remove them, I don't touch professions on new characters until they are max level.

  10. #30
    I think crafting needs a major overhaul. Especially going back and changing patterns from old-world that require items you can no longer get. There are several crafted items that need things from the old, level 60 Naxx that doesn't exist anymore. There are several items that are almost complete sets, but for some reason blizz never released all of the parts. The low-level recipes usually require a stupid amount of mats (yes, I know they were end-game stuff back then, but they aren't now), and half of them are obscure and hard to get a hold of.

    I don't think they need to REMOVE things, other than changing recipes. I have nothing against the formula they use for making recipes: Certain levels need certain mats, higher levels need higher mats. Makes sense. But lately they've just been going apeshit with stupid recipes (Anyone else pissed off at Spirits STILL being BoP?) requiring items you can only get one of per day, and you can't use the community for it because they're fucking BoP. And the gear they make is going to be outdated in a couple of months anyway.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by jimlow View Post
    Leveling Blacksmithing with just ghost iron ore is not really feasible or very smart. Last I checked that exchange rate was far worse then just buying the proper mats.

    Their are several things I view as problems with professions none of which have anything to do with mats. You need raw materials for any kind of profession system to work no matter what it is. So removing herbs,ore,dust,ect would really serve no purpose.

    Part of the problem is that profession leveling does not keep any sort of pace with character leveling. You will often completely out level zones and start receiving the next teir of mats before you even remotely have enough of the raw materials to finish the last tier. think of the silk -> mageweave->runelcoth. Buy the time you get enough mageweave your already level 60 and receiving neatherweave.

    The second part of this problem is that gear you actually get from crafting does also not keep pace with leveling. Much of the gear and early profession stuff was designed around a time were it was supposed to supplement questing gear and be a bit below some of the stuff dungeonwise you could get. It was very uncommon during the early days to see someone running around in all blues at any level. Now with the implantation of heirlooms and LFD their is a hardly a reason to not be running around in all blues, furthermore anything you could possibly craft would be way behind ilevel wise from your heirlooms or even something you could get out of a dungeon.

    Additional benefits of leveling a profession while leveling were supposed to include additional sources of income for the player. Players would take the raw mats make gear for that level range and then post it on the AH so that players that didn't have those professions could then get gear that would help them continue to level. Heirlooms completely obliterated the market for any socket they happened to occupy. Trying to sell any crafted chest or shoulder pieces is almost a fools hope, you certainly will not get their moneys worth on the AH especially when you compare them to their raw mats cost. Which leads to another problem

    Every single thing you craft you now craft at a loss of value. Just ask yourself some simple questions what sells better a azure silk hood or a stack of silk? Which will get you more money? which requires a profession to collect?...yea. The raw mat simply sell better simply because everyone knows that everyone NEEDS them in order to level a profession. But nobody NEEDS a azure silk hood.

    Which brings me to the green gear trickle down from the next expansion. Everyone knows about this, you get to level ranges 58-60, 66-70, 76-80, 83-85, and you start buying the low level greens from the next expansion that have ilevels on part with some of the latest tiers of the expansion your currently working on. I know blizz is going to sort of address this with the ilevel squish but for right now its in full effect and whats worse is that there is nothing you could possibly craft except late tier epics that are both
    A) Gated behind rep requirements at that expansions max level and
    B) Gated behind mats at that expansions max level.
    C) Gated behind max profession level for that expansion.

    You simply cannot compete with any of that. Blizzard may as well just have you go to the trainer and pay him 10,000g to give you 600 profession level in whatever because every single thing about them is useless except what is current.

    A really good response I must say. It was very well thought of and you hit the nail on the head there.

    I don't really know when was the last time I've actually used something from Jewelcrafting while levelling the profession. Similarly, with Alchemy. With these kind of numbers being thrown about at end game, it makes lower level stuff feel completely worthless. I mean what is a +10 stamina bonus potion compared to like 500,000 hp. Simimlarly we have gone from +7 Agility to something like +320 agility. I simply vendor all my potions when I level up Alchemy, cause out side a few rare ones (which does cost a fortune to craft in the first place) none of them sell.

    In fact even what does sell in Tailoring and Blacksmithing is often sold at a loss. Take the Cobalt tank set for example. At least before heirlooms became available to the wast majority of the population, you could still bring in decent profits. However, a single stack of cobalt bar that is required to craft each of them sells for around 170-200G on the AH. And you barely get around 10-20G for the helm at the best of times. So you taking a 180-190G loss on them. These are just some examples.

    Take engineering for example. Since you have certain spots where you have to craft pets, trinkets, etc to level up which are expensive you'll find them on the AH for a fraction of the cost since the undercutting is pretty rampant since no one actually has any use for them.

    Mats right now often cost more than the finished product. Even in MoP. Flasks often were selling for 3/4 the price of a single golden lotus. The whole profession design is so badly designed and flawed. What is needed is a complete overhaul of all the professions.

    But I would never call for the removal of old world ore and herbs. Its needed for sooo many things. Blizzard would simply have to scrap everything below MoP. That is a completely stupid idea though.

    And you would have to be a pretty big moron or throw in any other name over here, if you actually think its cheaper and more efficient to actually power level using Ghost Iron ore. Even if you were to buy all the old world mats from the AH, you would still be paying only a fraction of the cost you would otherwise be paying via Ghost Iron ore. You looking at around 50G/stack. Considering you need a ton and literally a ton - that is simply throwing down 30,000-40,000G. I don't think I've spent more than 5-7K to level up BS. And plus you get a bit back from all the disenchants.
    Last edited by Ebonheart; 2013-12-12 at 03:41 AM.

  12. #32
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebonheart View Post
    And you would have to be a pretty big moron or throw in any other name over here, if you actually think its cheaper and more efficient to actually power level using Ghost Iron ore. Even if you were to buy all the old world mats from the AH, you would still be paying only a fraction of the cost you would otherwise be paying via Ghost Iron ore. You looking at around 50G/stack. Considering you need a ton and literally a ton - that is simply throwing down 30,000-40,000G. I don't think I've spent more than 5-7K to level up BS. And plus you get a bit back from all the disenchants.
    I think the benefit of having that catch-up is more for 1) giving value to Ghost Iron, and 2) allowing people to skip "dry spells" where you need insane mats (some of which are hard to even find on the AH!) for very few points.

    It also gives the lazy an option to possibly spend some more mats but not do the time to research/plan/prepare a myriad of crap (some of which again might even be hard to find on AH at times).

  13. #33
    The main issue is that you level way faster than you can level your profession. What should have happened is everytime they sped up leveling they should have increased the amount of skill increase you get from gathering/crafting by the same %. That way you could actually level up your crafting while you are leveling and even manage to make stuff you might use. The one ore for all idea was a mistake IMHO. They have pretty much made the old world insignificant, which is sad because it is 1000x better than Panda-area.

    Really though the way they are heading removing features, they might as well just automatically increase your professions when you level up and not even require you to level them up and you get new recipes like you get new spells now, without talking to anybody and automatically. Then with garrisons they can make it so you have NPCs gather and craft for you and just get free items in the mail. WoW 2.0

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    I think crafting needs a major overhaul. Especially going back and changing patterns from old-world that require items you can no longer get. There are several crafted items that need things from the old, level 60 Naxx that doesn't exist anymore. There are several items that are almost complete sets, but for some reason blizz never released all of the parts. The low-level recipes usually require a stupid amount of mats (yes, I know they were end-game stuff back then, but they aren't now), and half of them are obscure and hard to get a hold of.

    I don't think they need to REMOVE things, other than changing recipes. I have nothing against the formula they use for making recipes: Certain levels need certain mats, higher levels need higher mats. Makes sense. But lately they've just been going apeshit with stupid recipes (Anyone else pissed off at Spirits STILL being BoP?) requiring items you can only get one of per day, and you can't use the community for it because they're fucking BoP. And the gear they make is going to be outdated in a couple of months anyway.
    Furthering, stop removing old recipes from the game. Put the recipes that have been removed back in as a rare zone drop or something.

    Remove obscure mats, and reduce old world mat requirements. Make sure there is also orange/yellow recipes from the trainer the entire way that are not stupidly expensive to make (Having one tailoring leveling option which costs 120g per point to make and only value is vendoring for 5g per item is not good).

    Stop nerfing the farming methods for annoying materials (Embersilk cloth for example). If I need near 1000 embersilk cloth or whatever it is to level up tailoring, and the stuff is worth 10g per, thats an issue. It was 3g with a decent supply until they nerfed it, which hurts people willing to farm it, and hurts people leveling professions + new players badly. They didnt nerf the gold earned per hour, just the amount of items obtained instead (I made 10k per hour when I wanted prior, I still can now, just instead of 1500-2000 cloth per hour I might get 500).

    Have the catchups in game, much like the ghost iron items which are expensive but allow skipping bad points.

  15. #35
    No, even "junk" has its uses. Random things are used in Engineering, which currently doesn't catch up like mining, BS, and herbalism. It would be extremely difficult to level engineering if old ores and such were taken out. That said, Engineering does have a catch-up mechanic for a while in the form of clockwork boxes - which lasts until ~125 I believe. This could, of course, be improved upon. But what about old fun items such as teleporters, goggles, other random toy items, old scopes (should one be interested in those), etc?

    As far as other professions, there is transmog. Even making low level BS/Tailoring/Leatherworking gear is appealing to someone.

    Could things be improved? Yes. Removing things? Doesn't solve or accomplish anything, really.
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  16. #36
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    Instead of removing them can we just lower the mats it takes for some of the items some require retarded amounts for low level items that nobody will use.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    Furthering, stop removing old recipes from the game. Put the recipes that have been removed back in as a rare zone drop or something.

    Remove obscure mats, and reduce old world mat requirements. Make sure there is also orange/yellow recipes from the trainer the entire way that are not stupidly expensive to make (Having one tailoring leveling option which costs 120g per point to make and only value is vendoring for 5g per item is not good).

    Stop nerfing the farming methods for annoying materials (Embersilk cloth for example). If I need near 1000 embersilk cloth or whatever it is to level up tailoring, and the stuff is worth 10g per, thats an issue. It was 3g with a decent supply until they nerfed it, which hurts people willing to farm it, and hurts people leveling professions + new players badly. They didnt nerf the gold earned per hour, just the amount of items obtained instead (I made 10k per hour when I wanted prior, I still can now, just instead of 1500-2000 cloth per hour I might get 500).

    Have the catchups in game, much like the ghost iron items which are expensive but allow skipping bad points.
    Excellent points. I too have noticed there are quite a few gaps in effective leveling of professions. Tailoring is also probably the worst of the bunch as cloth is much harder to farm than ore, herbs, and even leather. Especially with that nerf you mentioned to certain types dropping. Blizzard tries so hard to combat botters and gold farmers, and in the end, they just end up screwing legit players.
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  18. #38
    Bloodsail Admiral The Flavour Cat's Avatar
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    Keep them. There are old weapons/gear items/recipes etc. that many players need or want for transmogrification purposes and other things. I don't want one of those annoying catch-up things where you don't have to leave the current continent when levelling the skill from 1-600. Removing classic ore and the like gives people almost no reason to go the old world any more.
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  19. #39
    They need to do it for all professions. I don't see why they can't allow skinners to level strictly in Pandaria. They already have a scrap system in place.

  20. #40
    There should be a quick boost option for all professions tbh.

    Have Ghost Iron Bolt be an Engineering 1 spell, you pick it up in Pandaria from a trainer (and must be 85+). And then just use that to level it. Sure, it'll cost a fair bit, but it's probably better than needing to go all over the world picking up bits.

    The professions are practically no use except at end game anyway. Do we really want to skin 500 level 10 mobs to be able to make low level Leather trousers (that you'll vendor anyway for 2 silver) to be able to get Leatherworking past 75? A lot of my noob alts are currently professionless, because I simply have no need or desire to level it. The reward for it is simply not there. I can have anything made by my main and main alts. Why would I spend a ton of gold or time levelling it again?

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