Incentivizing World PvP

[Medjumurac]

Quick note: I'm not sure if this has been suggested before, or if it has already been implemented. It may have been. If so, feel free to ignore whatever I'm about to say.


I've been seeing pleas/suggestions on this forum, and the official WoW forum to "bring back World PvP" since TBC. And I'm definitely one of those people who would love to see it in it's full glory again. But I'm not really convinced it's every going to happen.

World PvP back in vanilla was a kind of emergent game play. It didn't happen because it was encouraged. It just happened. People found it fun and new so they just did it whenever they could. These days though, they're catering to a different audience. People want tangible rewards for going to the effort/taking the risk of killing another player.

So why can't they implement those kinds of rewards similar to how they would in PvE?

People raid for loot. And content, but after those initial few go-arounds, it's definitely the loot that brings the back. So why not introduce loot into PvP? Why can't players drop gold? Not their own gold, but generated gold? Or occasionally drop an item appropriate to their level?

And similarly, why can't there be 'bosses' in towns? I think it'd be great if Goldshire had a 'mayor', the equivalent of a miniature raid boss, who would drop some kind of PvP loot. Or maybe raiding the SW/Org bank would allow players to loot a significant amount of gold? That'd give a really fun alternative to gather/working the AH, professions. Just rob a bank instead.

None of it would be instanced. The challenge comes in completing the task when faced with guards, mini bosses and more importantly, other players. It be like a CTF battleground, but much more relatable (I bet not a lot of players even know why they are in AB anymore).

I'd really love to hear people's thoughts on this.

[shoc]

If Timeless Isle was any indication, we might be looking at a PvP kill currency like Bloody Coins on Ashran.

[Kaykay]

wts free coins, got a horde guild willing to be slaughtered. Also trading for alliance kills.


The problem is that players don't provide an assured difficulty, whereas a mob with hp and damage output does. This is highly exploitable.

edit: just look at hellfire peninsula. the horde and alliance will rather just take turns capping flags rather then fighting for domination. Since the rewards are alot higher if they work together.

[Medjumurac]

wts free coins, got a horde guild willing to be slaughtered. Also trading for alliance kills.


The problem is that players don't provide an assured difficulty, whereas a mob with hp and damage output does. This is highly exploitable.

edit: just look at hellfire peninsula. the horde and alliance will rather just take turns capping flags rather then fighting for domination. Since the rewards are alot higher if they work together.

Yeah, I can see how that would be an issue for individual kills. But I'm sure a system could be implemented. There is surely a way to detect something like that. Players dying without putting out any damage.

As for the world PvP stuff (robbing a bank, taking over a town, killing a mayor, etc), the variable difficulty is what makes it interesting. It's also far less restricting for most players and means that you could have a different experience every time you try it. Maybe one day taking over Razor Hill and netting yourself a nifty piece of PvP gear is a cinch one day. And the next you're really having to fight because there's a persistent group of Horde who just won't let you take down the mayor easily.

That sounds like the definition of a "PvP objective" to me. It's (and I really hate to use this word) dynamic.

[Baracuda]

wts free coins, got a horde guild willing to be slaughtered. Also trading for alliance kills.


The problem is that players don't provide an assured difficulty, whereas a mob with hp and damage output does. This is highly exploitable.

edit: just look at hellfire peninsula. the horde and alliance will rather just take turns capping flags rather then fighting for domination. Since the rewards are alot higher if they work together.

It's a double-edged blade. Another horde guild can kill the allies...

[Deleted]

Well to make wpvp more attractive they should make pve gear not be way more effective for...shock!...pvp than actual pvp gear.
Oh crap, too late for that now.

In before "but if you are a pvp-er you should easily beat someone who pve-s" completely ignoring the fact that most pve-ers aren't complete idiots when it comes to pvp (unless ofc they are LFR heroes) so when you get an above average player with full 540 (at least) vs. above average player in full griev, guess who will be carried by stats.

[Deleted]

That would be nice add to game, but must be carefull with that because if it's complete random chance I already imagine 2 multiboxer armies farming each other 24/7. Simmiliar currency like bloody coins whould be perfectly fine with loads of vanity items to spend on. Gold and simmila awards will be 100% exploited.

[Wildtree]

I am not sure about the PVP Incentive point...
World PVP should not have any extra incentive. The fighting each other alone should make it happen.
Do you really have to put a carrot out in the front of the people so they start killing each other again?
If that is the case, then incentives won't do anything either. People will stop World PVP the moment they've got their incentive.
Maybe World PVP is just dead in that sense? Maybe time moved on, and with that also what people like to do moved from what they've once liked to do..

- - - Updated - - -

Surely if so many wanted to actually do WPvP, they'd do it anyway? Why do people suddenly need rewards to fight each other when before they didn't?

Exactly my thinking too

[Hand Banana]

Its buried somewhere now but I had a IMO great idea about world pvp that actually used what you have been saying here as a facet of it.

Oh man I found it but its really long I dunno if I should post it.

Edit: Awww screw it, ill do it but I hope it doesnt derail the thread.


New Currency System:

We currently have honor and conquest currencies for pvp, my suggestion is create a new currency for any non-instanced pvp, call it World Honor or WH for now. This WH currency is used as an alternative to BG honor; it doesn’t replace it. You will be able to buy similar gear to honor gear from the WH vendor except with minor differences: Color/look, and different secondary stats (for example: warrior honor legs have haste/crit, that’s our only option, well the WH legs would have crit/mastery or similarly different). Therefore the WH gear would not replace honor gear, just be a suitable alternative. Additionally, there are multitudes of other world pvp only type items that you can think of, from potions to portals to buff banners, some of which I will come back to. However, I don’t want bgs to be phased out, so they should remain the fastest way to get honor level gear. Of course, WH could also buy things like pvp-oriented enchants or gems, as well as profession materials.

More Accessible World:

Right now, the hardest part of world pvp (if you even want to without rewards) is 3 things: knowing where enemies are, getting to the place where pvp is happening, and flying mounts. The first thing I would like to bring up is something I call “martial law.” When a zone is being attacked, the defending faction (or either if a neutral zone) can institute martial law if they have a raid of larger than 10 people. Martial Law prohibits flying mounts in the zone for any people who are pvp flagged while there is still combat in the area (obviously would need some tuning to not piss off people).
City announcements and a new UI. Anytime a zone is declared martial law there are city announcements and a portal opens in the middle of faction major cities to go to the fighting. A new UI would be implemented to show what zones are being attacked, the amount of people from your faction currently in the area, and which towns are under attacked. Also in this UI you can automatically join raids of people in the area if you are pvp flagged and that allows easy forming of pvp groups.

Motivation to start battles:

Guards will give WH to entice players to attack zones. Additionally, people who are defending a town receive a buff called “honorable defender” (I know im soooo creative) which gives 30% more WH. However, the attacking faction also has an objective to achieve in each major town like area. For example, Honor Hold in outlands, in the basement of the keep there is a horde prisoner. If the horde rescue this prisoner by killing the elite guard (somewhat difficult, maybe 5 man difficulty), then they get 150 conquest points for everyone in the cities vicinity of that faction. These would reset every day, and the new UI would show which are available and what they give. Every zone could have a unique objective to accomplish that also gives conquest to entice people to not only attack towns, but to have a strategy as well. Offense may sound more fun, but defense would be easier to get in to as well as being a faster way to get WH.
I don’t want to kill off bgs, so they should still be the place for faster gear grinding, as well as more competitive and balanced gameplay.
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New PVP system: Most wanted:
Now that the world pvp and currency end of things is out of the way, I wanted to also talk about a new type of pvp that would attract people from higher gear who don’t need honor as well as people who do. I also feel it would be easy to implement.

Wanted:

Every time a player receives an honorable kill in non-instanced pvp, they receive a stacking (de)buff called “Wanted!” that lasts 1 hour and clears on death. This buff makes the player worth 1 additional WH when they are killed. Additionally, every 10 stacks gives 1 conquest. So if I have 38 stacks, then I am worth 38 extra WH and 3 conquest points when killed (WH split among everyone like normal, 3 conquest to everyone around). It sounds really basic, but there is so much room for fun and unique gameplay with this. It makes people want to go after better and more geared players, and it entices geared and skilled players to rack up as many wanted as they can get. Titles, achievements, you name it could be added to this (safeguards would need to be in place to prevent abuse of the system though).

Bounty Hunting:

In part of the new world pvp UI, there also shows a list of the most wanted members of the other faction (people with the highest stacks, maybe like top 50). It would show the number of stacks and the zone the player is in allow you to “target” players. When you get within 100 yards of your “target”, it could give you an arrow showing you the way to the player. In this way, players can go after people with high wanted stacks for the extra currency or prestige. Just like having a high wanted stack can give titles or achievements, so can killing those people. For example, killing the most wanted player on the server 10 times would net you the title “, Bounty Hunter”.

New Type of PVP Gameplay:

This new system, even one so basic, creates a new pvp dynamic. My pvp friends and I would love to go around zones killing people and being most wanted, then have to watch out for groups of enemies trying to kill us. Similarly, getting a group of stealthers and sneaking in to a zone to assassinate and high wanted target would be so much fun. Or when a zone is under attack and people are fighting 50v50 battles all over I could sneak in a kill “high priority” targets with high wanted, or my healer could stick with high wanted people and protect them like a self imposed objective. I think it would be a hell of a lot of fun, especially with the world pvp changes I listed above.

TL;DR
New currency for non-instanced world pvp as an alternative to bgs/honor.
More accessible world pvp and a new UI system.
A wanted/bounty hunting system that makes world pvp fun for people who don’t need the WH also.

[Deleted]

A wanted/bounty hunting system that makes world pvp fun for people who don’t need the WH also.

Love this idea, tool to hire mercenaries to gank somone who overbided you on AH or rolled your item xD

[cncrules45]

As for the world PvP stuff (robbing a bank, taking over a town, killing a mayor, etc), the variable difficulty is what makes it interesting. It's also far less restricting for most players and means that you could have a different experience every time you try it. Maybe one day taking over Razor Hill and netting yourself a nifty piece of PvP gear is a cinch one day. And the next you're really having to fight because there's a persistent group of Horde who just won't let you take down the mayor easily.

This isn't world PvP. This is world PvE with the possibility of PvP happening. In most zones, when no one is around you're not doing any PvP at all.

[Seriss]

The Timeless Isle thing with the Bloody Coins is the worst pvp thing ever implemented. It's a simple "I kill you every 10 minutes and then you kill me after that. Rinse and repeat." Just to slowly grind yourself towards the achievements. In addition: I only pvp as a healer if I venture into a BG these days at all. I can't do the Bloody Coins stuff as a healer. It's just no fun and entirely messed up and annoying.

[Toobad]

WPvP was there because you wanted to quest and someone was killing you/quest givers, because you wanted to fly somewhere and someone kept killing the flight master, because you wanted to access the meeting stone, or the other way around, you were bored, so you started a shitstorm by ganking a lowbie... You brought some friends and so did the opposite side.

What about now? You sit in a town, wait in a queue, if someone happens to kill you, you get on your fancy flapper and fly high ito stratosphere so that they can't attack you...

WPvP never worked based on some stupid 1% zone buff or mount rewards.

And yes, TI with Bloody Coins is the worst attempt for WPvP, especially in current state when PvP gear is so inferior to PvE when not in an actual PvP zone.

[Luxeley]

Not so long I started searching for a PVP guild, the last two I belonged to in the Cata & MOP broke up. I found a lot of guilds saying they have a sister guild of the other faction and they engage in a lot of World PVP. This is precisely why rewards for world PVP can not be implemented, the medium can be manipulated incredibly easy.