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Birds are my favorite animals if they are penguins.
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Last edited by PrairieChicken; 2013-12-12 at 11:41 PM.
For all the complains about casuals whining they want instant gratification right now, I find it humorous that certain groups of people cry about the same shit on a different scale. (Not you mind you, I'm being general in this statement, and not saying you are complaining obviously.) They want into the content THEY want right away without needing to go through X-easy content first, but rather go straight to the hard stuff. Yet it's not ok for people less savvy with hard content to complain they don't want a difficult heroic dungeon because it gets between them and the LFR which was designed FOR That kind of player to start with.
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I'm not surprised, I understand why they made MoP heroics easier since they had CMs to take their place but even so I felt they went too far making them easy. A nice balance between Cata and MoP level difficulty would be ideal.
I mean I loved Cata heroics but clearly they weren't for everyone.
TBC heroics were mainly hard because of the trash, the fact classes were poorly balanced, many tank classes didn't have the tools to properly hold AoE threat and overall the level of player skill was much lower.
On topic, I find it hilarious they didn't learn their lesson from the beginning of Cata. Even if the resident school dropouts again claim "Peoply didn't quit over hard dungeons", the suits at AB won't be fooled again.
Blizzard knows that the reason why so many people hated Cata heroics is because:
A: You had to do them to gear up.
B: You had to do them through LFD.
If blizzard makes heroics hard again, most people assume they will make them a optional, but faster, way to gear up as well as making it a pre-made only type of que... similar to heroic scenarios.
Of course if they kept the same model they have today and just made heroics harder that would be a bad idea, but Blizzard isn't going to make past mistakes. I assume they will make LEVEL CAPPED normal dungeons drop gear for LFR and Heroics drop gear for Normal Raiding. And to keep having hard heroics they will possibly add more dungeons each patch, similar to Halls of Reflection in Wrath.
They could make it harder than an Heroic Raid, it doesn't really matter when it ends up being outdated after people get raid gear (which you can get from crafting, from scenarios, from outdoor bosses and from LFR, and regular raid).
If it's hard, some people will complain it's too hard, if it's easy, other people will complain it's too easy. The real problem with heroic dungeons is that their lifespan is very limited, so in he end, it doesn't really matter.
Harder heroics only mean something if the entire "gear tier" is set. TBC was best here. Wotlk had potential due to the epics from endbosses & fraction dudes but lost due to justice gear. Cata was just terrible, the items in 5man were boring as hell and felt not worth doing them (ZA/ZG was better but still bad due to valor gear). MOP was worst of all - they screwed justice & valor gear with reputation attunement / daylie quests & the items felt just boring / <1% epic drop chance wtf.
This is a wonderful thing. There's nothing "heroic" about heroics anymore. Roughly half the heroics I run now don't even stop for a break between mobs. I've seen several tanks pull when the healer has less than 10% mana and no one even complains because...10% mana is all you need for those cake bosses.
On a somewhat related note, and maybe this deserves it's own thread, I dunno, and I don't know exactly how much work this would take on Blizz's part, I can only assume a lot. Anyway...one thing I really hate about the whole game in general is how every mob is always in the same place. I would like to see the mobs in different places, and much more pats walking around in the dungeons. I'm sure it would take plenty of work but I really hate how I know where every tough mob is before I even start the instance.
Honestly, making heroic dungeons more difficult is a null matter imo. As long as heroic dungeons are a stepping stone into raid content then I'm fine. BUT if Blizz goes back to TBC design and makes heroic 5 mans more difficult than raids then something has gone wrong. The progression IMO should be: Normal dungeons < Heroic dungeons <= Tier 1 raids (LFR/Flex or whatever they end up calling it) < Tier 2 raids (you know, actual raids) < heroic Tier 2 raids.
So yeah, make heroic dungeons more difficult, but make sure that they remain a stepping stone into actual raids.
Originally Posted by Vayron
All the difficulty of BC heroics was not in the trash. On boss fights players still had to get out of the fire, LoS the boss, spread out, CC, meet enrage timers, deal with adds, and a number of other mechanics that wasnt trivial. Most of the heroic run breakups I have seen was due to failing to bosses and not the trash.
Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-12-13 at 03:10 AM.