Poll: What do you think?

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  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    The poll proves that wrong.
    polls prove nothing but mainly cause its very important to interprete poll correckly - most of mmochampion posters are good players who seek chalenge in game at least to some degree - thats hwy poll look how it look liek - if u did htat poll in lfr u woudl have mainly answears from braindead monekys and it coudl look completly different -_-

  2. #902
    Im voting bad. It will be Cata 2.0. Forum will flood with retards complaining its to hard and it will be nerfed again
    Did they state that Challenge mode is gonna drop any gear?

  3. #903
    Deleted
    Have you done Challenge mode? Got 30 waves endless in proving grounds?

    Heroics was never very challenging, i can agree that they where hard early TBC (Around challenge mode but w/o the timers) other than that they have been easy.

    The ones that wants hader heroics is the people that has never has searched for the difficult content and want it delivered to them or the people that are truely good and wants to do it with they good buddies.

  4. #904
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Biassed sample. Poll proves nothing.
    The poll proves that the statement "nobody wants hard five-man content" is wrong; which is all 7seti implied.

    If you're going to nit pick, expect me to do likewise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Anub'rekhan in mechanics was FAR from tank n spank. The only reason you could was that naxx is teh most undertuned raid ever released by blizzard. Spreading for spikes, taking care of adds quickly before they overwhelmed tanks, and kiting anub himself during aoe silence phase are pretty much magmaw with more threat (silence being much worse)
    I think you're overstating Anub'rekhan quite dramatically (and I'm aware you think I'm overstating Magmaw, haha); it involved little more than getting the positioning right and that was it. Equally, I already made mention of the tuning being helpful for Naxxramas but the mechanics were extraordinarily forgiving. Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't just concentrate on one comparison because I made more than one. What I'm saying is that Attumen and Patchwerk should also be considered and those two had next to no "mechanics" at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Tuning is not an argument to mechanics. As mentioned above. Magmaw had no important burst phase, it was just "free damage" on normal mode (entry). You gained nothing but bursting it faster or slower.
    Damage during the down phase was multiplied on the up phase, meaning you shortened the fight by doing more damage during it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You had reason to stack on magmaw either other than that tuning and the healing requirements vs how shit mana regen was in blues/greens.
    Allowing for the fact you may have done the encounter differently, we used two stacked groups to deal with parasites - a mechanic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    And what tank cooldowns?
    When Magmaw swallowed the active tank and applied the debuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Your argument comes down to tuning. What happens if you got a scion / time / whelps on halfus? It was literally a tank n spank. scion / storm / whelps / time? just an interrupt thrown in. only with slate do you add the tank swap in.
    Slate/Time/Scion?

    Also, the randomness is a factor in convoluting Halfus in a way that never happened with Naxxramas.

    So, no, my argument doesn't just come down to tuning. I agree with you 100% when you say the tuning of Naxxramas was far slacker than that of Cataclysm or MoP, but it's also pretty clear that opening bosses have become mechanically much rougher since the launch of Cataclysm.

  5. #905
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    polls prove nothing but mainly cause its very important to interprete poll correckly - most of mmochampion posters are good players who seek chalenge in game at least to some degree - thats hwy poll look how it look liek - if u did htat poll in lfr u woudl have mainly answears from braindead monekys and it coudl look completly different -_-
    This is a post offering lots of information. Thank you!

  6. #906
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    I don't care either way. Whether it's normal or heroic dungeons, it will be cake with a little bit of gear as it always is.

    Btw - I chose to vote for penguins, because.... Penguins.
    Last edited by Kowloon; 2013-12-18 at 01:58 PM.
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  7. #907
    Largely irrelevant. They'll just get outgeared a week in.
    time is money - money is power - power corrupts

  8. #908
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Largely irrelevant. They'll just get outgeared a week in.
    I hope not. If so, then they did not make the heroics hard enough.

    The game needs to offer a progression path and improved gear for players who don't have time for heroic/mythic raids, have enough self respect to avoid LFR, and are ambitious at progressing through the game at their own pace

  9. #909
    Quote Originally Posted by Zia View Post
    I hope not. If so, then they did not make the heroics hard enough.
    I think what Blizzard is looking at is the current state of heroic 5 mans. They might as well not be in the game at this point. The solution is to try to make them harder and with more relevant rewards later in the expansion, and that means they have to be harder to start with.

    Viewed another way: the return of persistently relevant 5 mans is the obverse of retreating from the "LFR is your endgame" model of MoP.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  10. #910
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Largely irrelevant. They'll just get outgeared a week in.
    Because thats what happened in Cata right? No mechanics just overgearing.

    With a stat squich where we will only go up 10k health by the end of the expansion, something that hits for 40k at the start and nearly one shots you will still hurt like hell. Plus there were 1 shot mechanics in Cata dungeons. PLease tell me how people overgeared Foe Reaper 5000.

  11. #911
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    I want heroics to be as hard as they were in TBC days... cataclysm was nice, but it still wasn't as hard. Also they need to bring back keys for heroic
    Stop there. It sounds great, but do not get my hopes up. This will NEVER happen.

  12. #912
    Its a stupid idea. Once everyone gets their jollys off on hard heroics and they move on to raiding they stop running them. Leaving everyone else fucked. No thank you I'll take my cakewalk heroics that allows me to carry and be carried and still get fast runs in later into the expansion. These are things that we will more than likely have to run on a daily basis multiple times for valor/justice/crafting mats. I do NOT want them to be something that takes a whole lot of effort to pull off as that is just a recipe to frustrate the living hell out of players.

  13. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Largely irrelevant. They'll just get outgeared a week in.
    Yes, hopefully they will do what they did with Wrath and add new dungeons every patch or so to compensate the item curve.

  14. #914
    Quote Originally Posted by Captiosus View Post
    Please don't say there weren't other options to gear because that's untrue. You could run the three 85 normals for rep and, combined with crafting, be raid geared just fine without doing a heroic. There were options beyond heroics and people still left in droves.
    The crafting that you... needed Chaos Orbs from heroics to do?

    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

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  15. #915
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Please go back to whatever hardcore game you came from, because WoW isn't it, it never has been, and I like my games with players in it. Kicking out casuals leads to millions of sub losses which means smaller/less raids for you.

    Your funeral.
    I have my guild. I will raid no mater what. :P

  16. #916
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Please go back to whatever hardcore game you came from, because WoW isn't it, it never has been, and I like my games with players in it. Kicking out casuals leads to millions of sub losses which means smaller/less raids for you.

    Your funeral.
    WoW has been a jack of all trades game since its inception. I remember very vividly that the major selling point of WoW was that it catered to many audience, both casuals and hardcores alike. So there is definitely a place for him in the game and your post comes off as incredibly ignorant and asinine.

    And not nerfing the 5-mans isn't "kicking out casuals" It's people's own choices to leave. So dramatic.

  17. #917
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I think what Blizzard is looking at is the current state of heroic 5 mans. They might as well not be in the game at this point. The solution is to try to make them harder and with more relevant rewards later in the expansion, and that means they have to be harder to start with.

    Viewed another way: the return of persistently relevant 5 mans is the obverse of retreating from the "LFR is your endgame" model of MoP.
    I'll repeat a suggestion I made in the past: make tiered versions of dungeons to keep both difficulty and rewards without screwing over players at lower levels of gear or skill. Make the gear slightly worse than LFR (or equivalent, depending on your philosophy), but good enough to jump into Flex if a player wants too.

    Normal Stormstout Brewery (leveling)
    Heroic Stormstout Brewery (max level, gear up for T14)
    Thundering Stormstout Brewery (max level, gear up for T15)
    Sorrowful Stormstout Brewery (max level, gear up for T16)

  18. #918
    I actually like the idea of Normal dungeons and LFR being at the same ilvl - as long as they continue to release 2-3 dungeons along with each new raid tier.

    But then you'd have to have Heroics at the same ilvl as Normal raiding (flex), and take Heroics out of LFD - but both Normal Raid (flex) and Heroics would then have to be in the cross-realm Group Finder tool - so what's the difference really?

    As a casual player, I hate that the only way I can "get more gear" is to do LFR each week. I am highly skilled (been playing for a damn long time) so I'd really appreciate a "Mythic" level difficulty tier for 5-man content.

    Also, JP should reward gear of an ilvl = current raid finder tier, VP is for upgrading epic gear and purchasing those few special slot items that just won't drop, IMO.

    Blizzard needs to remove "the wall" where you have zero motivation to log in and play after you've finished your LFR and VP cap for the week.

  19. #919
    There's certainly some wiggle room in how difficult they can be made. MoP heroics were way too easy while Cata launch ones were too difficult for the majority. There's enough space in between to work with that's a compromise of the two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
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  20. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    There's certainly some wiggle room in how difficult they can be made. MoP heroics were way too easy while Cata launch ones were too difficult for the majority. There's enough space in between to work with that's a compromise of the two.
    Blizzard's spent a lot of time and energy figuring out ways to take the same content and scale it.

    Normals, Heroics, Challenge Modes, Flex raiding...

    I'd say the perfect solution would be Heroics <= CATA (all but the few hardest) and then Mythic >= hardest Cata/TBC heroics.

    I'd love to do 6-7 Mythic level 5-mans each week with LFR+ level gear in addition to weekly LFR.

    Would certainly up my motivation to seek out that next tier in Normal/Flex.

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