View Poll Results: What do you think?

Voters
1711. You may not vote on this poll
  • Awesome!

    1,212 70.84%
  • Stupid!

    169 9.88%
  • Birds are my favorite animals if they are penguins.

    330 19.29%
Page 46 of 48 FirstFirst ...
36
44
45
46
47
48
LastLast
  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    The key reason they can do this is because they're bringing back level cap Normals. So you're no longer directly into Heroics when you hit 100. They'll be harder, but those saying "it'll be Cata hard" are fooling themselves.
    Actually Blizzard have said they're aiming for pre-nerf Vortex Pinnacle difficulty. Granted this was one of the easier Cata heroics, but there were at least a few bits that required competence.

  2. #902
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    Actually Blizzard have said they're aiming for pre-nerf Vortex Pinnacle difficulty. Granted this was one of the easier Cata heroics, but there were at least a few bits that required competence.
    I hope so, I'm so tired have being forced to do LFR so I can gear up for normals, if heroics are used as an alternative to LFR I will be so happy.

  3. #903
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland.
    Posts
    3,427
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Anub'rekhan and halfus operated on very similar levels of complexity and magmaw more comparable to patchwerk...

    Stone Guard is a sole outlier there. The reason the cata ones were difficult was simply tuning.
    I completely disagree with your equivocation.

    Anub'rekhan, Patchwerk and Attumen were pretty much tank and spanks and not a lot else. That's how introductory tier bosses should be, really.

    Halfus had a taunt-swap, target switching, random elements, an interrupt and was tuned considerably tighter.
    Magmaw had stack-and-move, tank cooldowns, a burst phase and was also tuned considerably tighter.

    Arguing that those bosses were in any way comparable to the entry bosses before them, honestly, baffles me; I've no idea how anyone could say otherwise.

    Nowt queer as folk, I suppose.

  4. #904
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    I completely disagree with your equivocation.

    Anub'rekhan, Patchwerk and Attumen were pretty much tank and spanks and not a lot else. That's how introductory tier bosses should be, really.

    Halfus had a taunt-swap, target switching, random elements, an interrupt and was tuned considerably tighter.
    Magmaw had stack-and-move, tank cooldowns, a burst phase and was also tuned considerably tighter.

    Arguing that those bosses were in any way comparable to the entry bosses before them, honestly, baffles me; I've no idea how anyone could say otherwise.

    Nowt queer as folk, I suppose.
    Magmaw was the best introductory boss I ever fought ever. Too bad the progression path for tier 11 was kinda odd, since I wouldn't say Halfus was easier than the Omnitron Defense System or Maloriak.

  5. #905
    I jumped for joy. I missed the old cata heroics difficulty. Mop was way too easy
    Bane

  6. #906
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    All Lilija is saying is that more experienced players tend to be better than less experienced ones. Clearly, there will be exceptions to this rule but, in general, that's the way it is.

    The Stone Guard was a horrible entry level boss for new players who'd levelled up and found no challenge in heroic dungeons. For those who've been playing since before Cataclysm, it was pretty manageable because many had seen it before.

    Think Attumen the Huntsman, Patchwerk or Anub'rekhan and compare them to Magmaw, Halfus or the Stone Guard.

    The difference is massive, and newer players got smashed because they weren't ready for content the game hadn't prepared them for. More experienced players got through it with much more ease, particularly if they were playing with longer-term raiders.
    Compared to my three expansions experience of raiding, Stone Guard was a miss placed boss with a tank swap mechanic that is usually seen far later in tiers. That fight largely came down to did the tanks fuck up or not and if they didnt then it was kinda easy for everyone else. The responsibility balance of that fight was too far on the tanks with an expectation that you had two seasoned tanks. Even the next fight was throwing a new ability at tanks that they never used before with an even easier job for the dps and healers. Fast forward to Terrace being the last raid and the mechanics for those fights was overall a joke in comparison to both Vaults and Heart of Fear. Terrace was a bloody bore as a DPS with the focus still being on the tanks and healers.

    Personally it felt like the opening tier was designed to make PuGs fail and turn to LFR. Had terrace been first then I think it would have been a different story. I am coming from a server that ran T11 PuGs at launch and even Fireland PuGs. Both of which was available pre and past prime time hours. PuGs still went on in MoP but heavily biased expectation on hard to come by roles like tanks hurt the amount of players who could get groups going.
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Magmaw was the best introductory boss I ever fought ever. Too bad the progression path for tier 11 was kinda odd, since I wouldn't say Halfus was easier than the Omnitron Defense System or Maloriak.
    Most of the Magmaw QQ was players complaining about a big telegraphed event of a giant worm slamming on the ground. T11 also had balance issues on 10 man in part due to class make up and 25 man being under tuned in some cases making some fights a joke. In 10 man some fights was trivialized with certain comps despite others being balanced. T11 fights was fun though and I had high hopes for Cata from launch and instead went down hill
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-12-17 at 09:36 PM.

  7. #907
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland.
    Posts
    3,427
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Magmaw was the best introductory boss I ever fought ever. Too bad the progression path for tier 11 was kinda odd, since I wouldn't say Halfus was easier than the Omnitron Defense System or Maloriak.
    Not sure I agree about Magmaw, but you have a very good point about the progression; I'd argue that Maloriak, ODS and (particularly) Atramedes were all easier than Halfus.

    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    Compared to my three expansions experience of raiding, Stone Guard was a miss placed boss with a tank swap mechanic that is usually seen far later in tiers. That fight largely came down to did the tanks fuck up or not and if they didnt then it was kinda easy for everyone else. The responsibility balance of that fight was too far on the tanks with an expectation that you had two seasoned tanks. Even the next fight was throwing a new ability at tanks that they never used before with an even easier job for the dps and healers. Fast forward to Terrace being the last raid and the mechanics for those fights was overall a joke in comparison to both Vaults and Heart of Fear. Terrace was a bloody bore as a DPS with the focus still being on the tanks and healers.
    Erm, yeah; I'd go with that. Any fight that has a single point of failure is putting expectation on seasoned players, which most folks aren't. Again, as with tier 11, I thought tier 14 was all over the place regarding difficulty. Statistically, the Heart of Fear threw a significant number of normal guilds onto the scrapheap and into LFR, while Shek'zeer was a mandatory kill for entering a far simpler instance in the Terrace of Endless Spring. The linear nature of these instances didn't help.

    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    Personally it felt like the opening tier was designed to make PuGs fail and turn to LFR. Had terrace been first then I think it would have been a different story. I am coming from a server that ran T11 PuGs at launch and even Fireland PuGs. Both of which was available pre and past prime time hours. PuGs still went on in MoP but heavily biased expectation on hard to come by roles like tanks hurt the amount of players who could get groups going.
    That mirrors my view pretty accurately.

    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    Most of the Magmaw QQ was players complaining about a big telegraphed event of a giant worm slamming on the ground. T11 also had balance issues on 10 man in part due to class make up and 25 man being under tuned in some cases making some fights a joke. In 10 man some fights was trivialized with certain comps despite others being balanced. T11 fights was fun though and I had high hopes for Cata from launch and instead went down hill
    It was mentioned yesterday, but Cataclysm's (and MoP followed this) tuning was nowhere near forgiving enough for new players when there were complicated mechanics flying around. That's why things like Bloodlust and Rebirth found their way to other classes, you simply couldn't get by without them in 10-man.

  8. #908
    Nobody wants hard heroic 5 mans, lets be honest. I prefer to whizz through them at 100 MPH and forget about them 5 seconds later, I really don't care much for these threads, Blizzard will make them slightly tougher but as said in this thread its relative and if the current heroics are anything to go by then I don't think we will have anything to worry about. Blizzard are going to keep the masses satisfied and being a casual that just wants to log on 2 hours a week and blast through everything and log off until the next reset of LFR I don't think I have anything to worry about because Blizzard cares as much for my monthly sub as they do the devoted Blizzard/WoW fan that desperately wants the game to be successful.

  9. #909
    Nobody wants hard heroic 5 mans, lets be honest.
    The poll proves that wrong.

  10. #910
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Colchester, land of the squaddies, UK
    Posts
    5,562
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    The poll proves that wrong.
    Biassed sample. Poll proves nothing.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 1/6/7 | TPR: 0.5/3.5/4
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Glyphmaster Gunhaver | Avatar by Hasana-chan

  11. #911
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,243
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    I completely disagree with your equivocation.

    Anub'rekhan, Patchwerk and Attumen were pretty much tank and spanks and not a lot else. That's how introductory tier bosses should be, really.
    Anub'rekhan in mechanics was FAR from tank n spank. The only reason you could was that naxx is teh most undertuned raid ever released by blizzard. Spreading for spikes, taking care of adds quickly before they overwhelmed tanks, and kiting anub himself during aoe silence phase are pretty much magmaw with more threat (silence being much worse)

    Halfus had a taunt-swap, target switching, random elements, an interrupt and was tuned considerably tighter.
    Magmaw had stack-and-move, tank cooldowns, a burst phase and was also tuned considerably tighter.
    Tuning is not an argument to mechanics. As mentioned above. Magmaw had no important burst phase, it was just "free damage" on normal mode (entry). You gained nothing but bursting it faster or slower. You had reason to stack on magmaw either other than that tuning and the healing requirements vs how shit mana regen was in blues/greens.

    And what tank cooldowns?

    Arguing that those bosses were in any way comparable to the entry bosses before them, honestly, baffles me; I've no idea how anyone could say otherwise.

    Nowt queer as folk, I suppose.
    Your argument comes down to tuning. What happens if you got a scion / time / whelps on halfus? It was literally a tank n spank. scion / storm / whelps / time? just an interrupt thrown in. only with slate do you add the tank swap in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  12. #912
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Biassed sample. Poll proves nothing.
    I'm pretty sure that it proves that over a thousand MMO-C users would like harder heroics, and thus the statement "nobody wants hard heroics" is wrong.

  13. #913
    Scarab Lord Fahrenheit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    4,560
    Cool.

    I'm of the opinion TBC and Cata heroics weren't very difficult either, having to use an ounce of CC during some trash pulls and moving out of the swirling gray/purple shit on the floor during a boss fight doesn't make it hard. It makes it not embarrassingly easy.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
    You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

    Sovereign
    Mass Effect

  14. #914
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    The Frozen Wasteland
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    The poll proves that wrong.
    The poll proves that a few people answered a poll a certain way.

  15. #915
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    The poll proves that wrong.
    polls prove nothing but mainly cause its very important to interprete poll correckly - most of mmochampion posters are good players who seek chalenge in game at least to some degree - thats hwy poll look how it look liek - if u did htat poll in lfr u woudl have mainly answears from braindead monekys and it coudl look completly different -_-

  16. #916
    Im voting bad. It will be Cata 2.0. Forum will flood with retards complaining its to hard and it will be nerfed again
    Did they state that Challenge mode is gonna drop any gear?

  17. #917
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    380
    Have you done Challenge mode? Got 30 waves endless in proving grounds?

    Heroics was never very challenging, i can agree that they where hard early TBC (Around challenge mode but w/o the timers) other than that they have been easy.

    The ones that wants hader heroics is the people that has never has searched for the difficult content and want it delivered to them or the people that are truely good and wants to do it with they good buddies.

  18. #918
    The Lightbringer Amulree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland.
    Posts
    3,427
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Biassed sample. Poll proves nothing.
    The poll proves that the statement "nobody wants hard five-man content" is wrong; which is all 7seti implied.

    If you're going to nit pick, expect me to do likewise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Anub'rekhan in mechanics was FAR from tank n spank. The only reason you could was that naxx is teh most undertuned raid ever released by blizzard. Spreading for spikes, taking care of adds quickly before they overwhelmed tanks, and kiting anub himself during aoe silence phase are pretty much magmaw with more threat (silence being much worse)
    I think you're overstating Anub'rekhan quite dramatically (and I'm aware you think I'm overstating Magmaw, haha); it involved little more than getting the positioning right and that was it. Equally, I already made mention of the tuning being helpful for Naxxramas but the mechanics were extraordinarily forgiving. Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't just concentrate on one comparison because I made more than one. What I'm saying is that Attumen and Patchwerk should also be considered and those two had next to no "mechanics" at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Tuning is not an argument to mechanics. As mentioned above. Magmaw had no important burst phase, it was just "free damage" on normal mode (entry). You gained nothing but bursting it faster or slower.
    Damage during the down phase was multiplied on the up phase, meaning you shortened the fight by doing more damage during it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You had reason to stack on magmaw either other than that tuning and the healing requirements vs how shit mana regen was in blues/greens.
    Allowing for the fact you may have done the encounter differently, we used two stacked groups to deal with parasites - a mechanic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    And what tank cooldowns?
    When Magmaw swallowed the active tank and applied the debuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Your argument comes down to tuning. What happens if you got a scion / time / whelps on halfus? It was literally a tank n spank. scion / storm / whelps / time? just an interrupt thrown in. only with slate do you add the tank swap in.
    Slate/Time/Scion?

    Also, the randomness is a factor in convoluting Halfus in a way that never happened with Naxxramas.

    So, no, my argument doesn't just come down to tuning. I agree with you 100% when you say the tuning of Naxxramas was far slacker than that of Cataclysm or MoP, but it's also pretty clear that opening bosses have become mechanically much rougher since the launch of Cataclysm.

  19. #919
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    polls prove nothing but mainly cause its very important to interprete poll correckly - most of mmochampion posters are good players who seek chalenge in game at least to some degree - thats hwy poll look how it look liek - if u did htat poll in lfr u woudl have mainly answears from braindead monekys and it coudl look completly different -_-
    This is a post offering lots of information. Thank you!

  20. #920
    The Patient Kowloon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Walled City
    Posts
    322
    I don't care either way. Whether it's normal or heroic dungeons, it will be cake with a little bit of gear as it always is.

    Btw - I chose to vote for penguins, because.... Penguins.
    Last edited by Kowloon; 2013-12-18 at 01:58 PM.
    In the company of thieves, liars, beggars and whores
    I'll lay waiting, just waiting for my time to come.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •