View Poll Results: What do you think?

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  • Awesome!

    1,212 70.84%
  • Stupid!

    169 9.88%
  • Birds are my favorite animals if they are penguins.

    330 19.29%
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  1. #921
    Bloodsail Admiral Tychus's Avatar
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    Largely irrelevant. They'll just get outgeared a week in.
    time is money - money is power - power corrupts

  2. #922
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Largely irrelevant. They'll just get outgeared a week in.
    I hope not. If so, then they did not make the heroics hard enough.

    The game needs to offer a progression path and improved gear for players who don't have time for heroic/mythic raids, have enough self respect to avoid LFR, and are ambitious at progressing through the game at their own pace

  3. #923
    Quote Originally Posted by Zia View Post
    I hope not. If so, then they did not make the heroics hard enough.
    I think what Blizzard is looking at is the current state of heroic 5 mans. They might as well not be in the game at this point. The solution is to try to make them harder and with more relevant rewards later in the expansion, and that means they have to be harder to start with.

    Viewed another way: the return of persistently relevant 5 mans is the obverse of retreating from the "LFR is your endgame" model of MoP.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  4. #924
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Largely irrelevant. They'll just get outgeared a week in.
    Because thats what happened in Cata right? No mechanics just overgearing.

    With a stat squich where we will only go up 10k health by the end of the expansion, something that hits for 40k at the start and nearly one shots you will still hurt like hell. Plus there were 1 shot mechanics in Cata dungeons. PLease tell me how people overgeared Foe Reaper 5000.

  5. #925
    Looks nice, but isnt there Heroic raids before the mythic ?

  6. #926
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    I want heroics to be as hard as they were in TBC days... cataclysm was nice, but it still wasn't as hard. Also they need to bring back keys for heroic
    Stop there. It sounds great, but do not get my hopes up. This will NEVER happen.

  7. #927
    Its a stupid idea. Once everyone gets their jollys off on hard heroics and they move on to raiding they stop running them. Leaving everyone else fucked. No thank you I'll take my cakewalk heroics that allows me to carry and be carried and still get fast runs in later into the expansion. These are things that we will more than likely have to run on a daily basis multiple times for valor/justice/crafting mats. I do NOT want them to be something that takes a whole lot of effort to pull off as that is just a recipe to frustrate the living hell out of players.

  8. #928
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Largely irrelevant. They'll just get outgeared a week in.
    Yes, hopefully they will do what they did with Wrath and add new dungeons every patch or so to compensate the item curve.

  9. #929
    Quote Originally Posted by Captiosus View Post
    Please don't say there weren't other options to gear because that's untrue. You could run the three 85 normals for rep and, combined with crafting, be raid geared just fine without doing a heroic. There were options beyond heroics and people still left in droves.
    The crafting that you... needed Chaos Orbs from heroics to do?

    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  10. #930
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Please go back to whatever hardcore game you came from, because WoW isn't it, it never has been, and I like my games with players in it. Kicking out casuals leads to millions of sub losses which means smaller/less raids for you.

    Your funeral.
    I have my guild. I will raid no mater what. :P

  11. #931
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Please go back to whatever hardcore game you came from, because WoW isn't it, it never has been, and I like my games with players in it. Kicking out casuals leads to millions of sub losses which means smaller/less raids for you.

    Your funeral.
    WoW has been a jack of all trades game since its inception. I remember very vividly that the major selling point of WoW was that it catered to many audience, both casuals and hardcores alike. So there is definitely a place for him in the game and your post comes off as incredibly ignorant and asinine.

    And not nerfing the 5-mans isn't "kicking out casuals" It's people's own choices to leave. So dramatic.

  12. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I think what Blizzard is looking at is the current state of heroic 5 mans. They might as well not be in the game at this point. The solution is to try to make them harder and with more relevant rewards later in the expansion, and that means they have to be harder to start with.

    Viewed another way: the return of persistently relevant 5 mans is the obverse of retreating from the "LFR is your endgame" model of MoP.
    I'll repeat a suggestion I made in the past: make tiered versions of dungeons to keep both difficulty and rewards without screwing over players at lower levels of gear or skill. Make the gear slightly worse than LFR (or equivalent, depending on your philosophy), but good enough to jump into Flex if a player wants too.

    Normal Stormstout Brewery (leveling)
    Heroic Stormstout Brewery (max level, gear up for T14)
    Thundering Stormstout Brewery (max level, gear up for T15)
    Sorrowful Stormstout Brewery (max level, gear up for T16)

  13. #933
    I actually like the idea of Normal dungeons and LFR being at the same ilvl - as long as they continue to release 2-3 dungeons along with each new raid tier.

    But then you'd have to have Heroics at the same ilvl as Normal raiding (flex), and take Heroics out of LFD - but both Normal Raid (flex) and Heroics would then have to be in the cross-realm Group Finder tool - so what's the difference really?

    As a casual player, I hate that the only way I can "get more gear" is to do LFR each week. I am highly skilled (been playing for a damn long time) so I'd really appreciate a "Mythic" level difficulty tier for 5-man content.

    Also, JP should reward gear of an ilvl = current raid finder tier, VP is for upgrading epic gear and purchasing those few special slot items that just won't drop, IMO.

    Blizzard needs to remove "the wall" where you have zero motivation to log in and play after you've finished your LFR and VP cap for the week.

  14. #934
    There's certainly some wiggle room in how difficult they can be made. MoP heroics were way too easy while Cata launch ones were too difficult for the majority. There's enough space in between to work with that's a compromise of the two.
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  15. #935
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    There's certainly some wiggle room in how difficult they can be made. MoP heroics were way too easy while Cata launch ones were too difficult for the majority. There's enough space in between to work with that's a compromise of the two.
    Blizzard's spent a lot of time and energy figuring out ways to take the same content and scale it.

    Normals, Heroics, Challenge Modes, Flex raiding...

    I'd say the perfect solution would be Heroics <= CATA (all but the few hardest) and then Mythic >= hardest Cata/TBC heroics.

    I'd love to do 6-7 Mythic level 5-mans each week with LFR+ level gear in addition to weekly LFR.

    Would certainly up my motivation to seek out that next tier in Normal/Flex.

  16. #936
    This is the idea I've been juggling for a while now. These are sample iLevels, but the concept remains.

    Level 90-99: Normal dungeons
    Level 100: Heroic dungeons (iLvL 620 required. iLvL 650 drops.)
    Level 100: Mythic dungeons (iLvL 640 required, iLvl 670 drops.)
    Level 100: LFR (iLvL 640 required, iLvL 670 drops.)

    First, it's important that LFR and "Mythic" dungeons (or whatever the hardest dungeon difficulty might be) are on the same ilevel in gear. Why? It gives the playerbase a clear path to take. The more experienced player can gather a group of friends and test his mettle with the hard 5-mans. Short runs, but harder. The less experienced player, if he fails in hard 5-mans or doesn't want to do them outright, can continue queuing up for LFR like he always has. Longer than a 5-man, but easier.

    So far, I haven't seen a problem with this concept. Doesn't it please everyone? Better players don't have to slog through LFR on alts and new/less experienced players can continue doing content at a more modest difficulty.

  17. #937
    What about using Proving Grounds as something actually useful? Re-worked to actually teach you skills? (granted I haven't done them on live but I don't see the point)

    Normal dungeons - low ilvl requirement (quest gear) - have to complete basic Proving Ground challenge for whatever role you are queuing as, no need for medal
    Heroic dungeons - normal dungeon ilvl required - have to achieve Bronze medal for the role you queue as
    LFR - heroic dungeon ilvl required - have to achieve Silver medal for the role you queue as
    Flex raid / Mythic dungeon difficulty - LFR/heroic dungeon ilvl required, have to achieve Gold medal for the role you queue as

  18. #938
    Quote Originally Posted by WarlordsofDraenor View Post
    This is the idea I've been juggling for a while now. These are sample iLevels, but the concept remains.

    Level 90-99: Normal dungeons
    Level 100: Heroic dungeons (iLvL 620 required. iLvL 650 drops.)
    Level 100: Mythic dungeons (iLvL 640 required, iLvl 670 drops.)
    Level 100: LFR (iLvL 640 required, iLvL 670 drops.)

    First, it's important that LFR and "Mythic" dungeons (or whatever the hardest dungeon difficulty might be) are on the same ilevel in gear. Why? It gives the playerbase a clear path to take. The more experienced player can gather a group of friends and test his mettle with the hard 5-mans. Short runs, but harder. The less experienced player, if he fails in hard 5-mans or doesn't want to do them outright, can continue queuing up for LFR like he always has. Longer than a 5-man, but easier.

    So far, I haven't seen a problem with this concept. Doesn't it please everyone? Better players don't have to slog through LFR on alts and new/less experienced players can continue doing content at a more modest difficulty.
    OR

    Level 90-99 : Normal Dungeons
    Level 100 : Normal Dungeons (ILvL 620 required, ILvL 650 Drops.)
    Level 100 : LFR (ILvL 640 required ILvL 670 Drops)
    Level 100 : Heroic Dungeons (ILvL 640 required ILvL 670 Drops Requires Pre-Made Group)

    Though I like your idea, I think this is the best solution for Blizzard so they don't have to make ANOTHER difficulty for dungeons.

  19. #939
    Yeah, I definitely want the hard 5-man option to require a pre-made group like heroic scenarios. Totally forgot to put that in.

  20. #940
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarlordsofDraenor View Post
    Yeah, I definitely want the hard 5-man option to require a pre-made group like heroic scenarios. Totally forgot to put that in.
    I don't see why there can't be a queue for them, I really don't. Some players on dud realms, or with awkward times, may not have the benefit of guild or a trade chat to help them; that doesn't mean they don't have the ability to clear these dungeons.

    I get the whole argument that you can't put random groups together and expect them to play well, but that choice should be up to the players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

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