Thread: Heroic Shamans

  1. #1

    Heroic Shamans

    Sub or Combat :P

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    Sub or Combat :P
    Go assa for progression, more dps <35% (the most important part of this encounter). Go combat if you just want to cheat most damage done
    14/14H Rogue

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by vertol View Post
    Go assa for progression, more dps <35% (the most important part of this encounter). Go combat if you just want to cheat most damage done
    Disagree. The last part adds tank damage and that meteor. Neither is a big deal. What is important is killing them before too many people screw up, and I seriously doubt that is due to extra tank damage. I suppose the ash could kill you, but really theres no other AE damage you should be taking and the earlier abilities are far more likely to do it. Now I do agree the cleave fluff at the start on the dogs isn't all that important unless you're hitting enrage, but combat will do more damage to the bosses over the whole fight which makes it better imo.

    Though I do agree sub is a stupid choice. At least there is an argument for assassination thats reasonable, but there is absolutely no reason to pick sub over combat unless maybe your best 2.6 is massively inferior to your dagger. While you could argue the cleave fluff isn't a big deal, it is still undeniably something which is better than the nothing sub has over combat for shamans.
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2013-12-11 at 08:27 AM.

  4. #4
    oh btw we are doing the 3 tank strat......

    Combat is double 574 weapons,

    Sub is heroic Norushen Dags.

    Also I can play sub to its maximum, just thinking since we are splitting adds with the 3 tank strat its now a single target fight..... Sub sims higher than Assass....
    Last edited by kilj; 2013-12-11 at 08:53 AM.

  5. #5
    Assassination if you want to respec and your sub-35% phase is ahead of your combat play, combat otherwise. Your group's difficulty may be different from others' (on 25H, we've had near-0 tank deaths but we lost a lot of the stream/elemental/tomb team consistently... and sadly, still do... but deaths against the tornadoes and such only really happen post-25%. Honestly we shouldn't be having any trouble at this point in time regardless, but so it goes).

    Sessh's analysis of Sub v. Combat above is rather complete.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Disagree. The last part adds tank damage and that meteor. Neither is a big deal. What is important is killing them before too many people screw up, and I seriously doubt that is due to extra tank damage. I suppose the ash could kill you, but really theres no other AE damage you should be taking and the earlier abilities are far more likely to do it.
    Some serious sh!t (like ash+iron prison) could happn and it doesn't matter if ppl are skilled or screw things up.

    I'm talking from my experiences, but I do agree 25man is different
    14/14H Rogue

  7. #7
    Play whatever spec you do the most damage with.

    The execute isn't that big of a deal, and Assassination's execute phase is only a ~15% dps increase over the normal phase anyway. I'd say that making the fight quicker, giving your raid less time to screw up, is more important than the execute.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by vertol View Post
    Go assa for progression, more dps <35% (the most important part of this encounter). Go combat if you just want to cheat most damage done
    The bosses share a health pool, so that cleaving isn't "cheating most damage done." It's useful dps (this is assuming, of course, you don't separate them).

  9. #9
    Combat all the way. The only time I'd suggest assassination over combat is if your raid's dps is lacking. Combat cleave can push the first part before you split them to be faster, and your pre 35% damage is going to be higher since you probably since you were asking about sub too. Subtlety just isn't as good for progress as combat or sin.

  10. #10
    Was looking over logs, combat only beats out the other 2 because of the cleave... Yet since we are doing split strat I'd bet its around the same with the other 2.

    Tho looking at shadowcraft its only a 20k dps increase between sub and combat

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    Tho looking at shadowcraft its only a 20k dps increase between sub and combat
    Are you asking what spec is better for progression or trying to justify using sub?

    I mean, if your mind is made up and you're not going to get booted, play whatever you like. The only offset is the question of whether or not your group struggles sub-25%, but that also has nothing, at all, to do with sub (hint: assassination is the only execute spec).

    I'm also not seeing a 20k DPS difference in top logs. It looks more like 80k, of which flurry, for at least one log I opened that didn't look like it was in Russian, is less than 80k (Nokkius).
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-12-11 at 08:42 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by vertol View Post
    Some serious sh!t (like ash+iron prison) could happn and it doesn't matter if ppl are skilled or screw things up.

    I'm talking from my experiences, but I do agree 25man is different
    Not a big deal really. You're going to have a raid cd for the ash on the last part for sure. You are also going to have personals for the prison unless you are mega unlucky. And from my experience, almost every single death is some one up by Earthwhatever and not the iron prison one. Wavewhatever is ridiculously easy if you're on that side.

    And actually, I'm pretty sure you are guaranteed at least 4-5 seconds between ash and prisons expiring. Some one feel free to correct me, but that gives healers plenty of time to top back up whoever has the prisons.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    The bosses share a health pool, so that cleaving isn't "cheating most damage done." It's useful dps (this is assuming, of course, you don't separate them).
    I have a feeling he was making the same assumption I was that they are only grouped for the first part while you cleave dogs before the shamans have their deadly abilities. So while I disagree, I can see his point.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    Was looking over logs, combat only beats out the other 2 because of the cleave... Yet since we are doing split strat I'd bet its around the same with the other 2.

    Tho looking at shadowcraft its only a 20k dps increase between sub and combat
    Um, no. Look at something like Iron Jug. Combat in general wins on ST over sub. Also, cleaving is real damage and even with the split strat you will still get some cleave in at the start. There is absolutely no reason to use sub when you have equal or greater combat weapons for dark shamans.
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2013-12-12 at 12:09 AM.

  13. #13
    The Patient
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    Just play combat, good cleave at the start and awesome single target anyway. I haven't been able to justify playing mut at all in it's current state, I play it on immerseus and that's it.

  14. #14
    I did end up with combat only because I didn't want to have to regem for one fight.

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